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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 14:54:14
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quote:
I am looking forward to the return of Helm and the Masked Lady but as for bringing back Every Last God! well I dont see how that is a good idea.
It seems kind of unnecessary and cheapens their deaths (whether they were heroic or otherwise) to bring them back just a few years after they were killed.
So many gods' deaths were already cheap to begin with. Take Mystra, Helm (!), Azuth, all the gods that supposedly died because their realm crumbled in the Spellplague. Even the drow deities, who got a novel series for their removal, had to die because WotC didn't want to have them in 4e Realms, not to enrich the drow story (on the contrary...). For example, the Masked Lady Eilistraee was either killed doing something very stupid and not even attempting to defend herself (against a mortal), or 'sacrificed' for something that gave up her goal and had nothing to do with her concept of redemption (diminishing it, tbh), while being absolutely not needed.
WotC decided to cull the pantheon and now -apparently- thinks that it was a mistake. Gods are not supposed to die like flies.
quote:
It also will remove a lot of tension and suspense from future products because even if someone gets killed viola they are back again in a few years.
This is not the case, because the Sundering is not your common FR story, its purpose specifically is to return the flavor of old to the setting. Its an exception.
Nonetheless, I agree that bringing back deities that only have 1 or 2 lines about them is kinda pointless. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 05 Jul 2014 15:18:49 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 16:15:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
SPOILERS!
Well Ibrandul has a Chosen in Dreams of the Red Wizards: Dead in Thay so he's as much on his way back into the Realms as, say, Vhaerun.
Out of curiosity, how prominent is this Chosen? I definitely see the overkill in bringing every god back, but if the smaller gods are about as prominent in the setting as, say, a fluffy bunny cult, I can see that working. Basically, sure, a PC could worship Ibrandul, but most people that PC encounters would be like, "I'm sorry, who is that?" |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 19:28:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Out of curiosity, how prominent is this Chosen?
MORE SPOILERS!
The players break into a super thayan stronghold/research facility in which Szass Tam is channeling divine essence from captured Chosens into his own phylactery. The players can find and free a number of Chosens and for each one, the adventure supplement names the patron deity, in all you get Chosens of: Zehir, Ilmater, Loviatar, Ghaunadaur, Auril (NPC from Legacy of the Crystal Shard), Bhaal (NPC from Murder in Baldur's Gate), Ibrandul, Tymora, Yurtrus, Rillifane Rallathil and Talona (already dead and soul-bound to the Chosen of Rillifane). |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 19:45:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Out of curiosity, how prominent is this Chosen?
MORE SPOILERS!
The players break into a super thayan stronghold/research facility in which Szass Tam is channeling divine essence from captured Chosens into his own phylactery. The players can find and free a number of Chosens and for each one, the adventure supplement names the patron deity, in all you get Chosens of: Zehir, Ilmater, Loviatar, Ghaunadaur, Auril (NPC from Legacy of the Crystal Shard), Bhaal (NPC from Murder in Baldur's Gate), Ibrandul, Tymora, Yurtrus, Rillifane Rallathil and Talona (already dead and soul-bound to the Chosen of Rillifane).
Well drat. It looks like that adventure just got bumped up a notch on my priority list. 
Is Bhaal's Chosen named? |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 19:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Is Bhaal's Chosen named?
SPOILERS!
Yes and no: the adventure supplement says to survey the players about the outcome of Murder in Baldur's Gate (if some of them have played that adventure) and use whichever NPC became Chosen at the end of the Murder in Baldur's Gate playthrough for the majority of the players, if no one has played that adventure then the Chosen of Bhaal is the wight of Torlin Silvershield, former Duke of Baldur's Gate.
On a partially related note, while checking i realized the Chosen of Tymora is an NPC from Scourge of the Sword Coast. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 20:19:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Out of curiosity, how prominent is this Chosen?
MORE SPOILERS!
The players break into a super thayan stronghold/research facility in which Szass Tam is channeling divine essence from captured Chosens into his own phylactery. The players can find and free a number of Chosens and for each one, the adventure supplement names the patron deity, in all you get Chosens of: Zehir, Ilmater, Loviatar, Ghaunadaur, Auril (NPC from Legacy of the Crystal Shard), Bhaal (NPC from Murder in Baldur's Gate), Ibrandul, Tymora, Yurtrus, Rillifane Rallathil and Talona (already dead and soul-bound to the Chosen of Rillifane).
The question could become, what happens if the chosen of a dead deity dies just prior to the sundering. It could be that some deities don't come back and its explained away this way. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 21:25:23
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
The question could become, what happens if the chosen of a dead deity dies just prior to the sundering. It could be that some deities don't come back and its explained away this way.
That's also a possibility... We've already got at least one canon case of an avatar surviving the death of their deity, so it's not at all unlikely that a Chosen could, as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2014 : 21:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Out of curiosity, how prominent is this Chosen?
MORE SPOILERS!
The players break into a super thayan stronghold/research facility in which Szass Tam is channeling divine essence from captured Chosens into his own phylactery. The players can find and free a number of Chosens and for each one, the adventure supplement names the patron deity, in all you get Chosens of: Zehir, Ilmater, Loviatar, Ghaunadaur, Auril (NPC from Legacy of the Crystal Shard), Bhaal (NPC from Murder in Baldur's Gate), Ibrandul, Tymora, Yurtrus, Rillifane Rallathil and Talona (already dead and soul-bound to the Chosen of Rillifane).
The question could become, what happens if the chosen of a dead deity dies just prior to the sundering. It could be that some deities don't come back and its explained away this way.
Demzer Thanks! That helps me plot some more.
sleyvas Good question. Has anyone seen anything official about what the Chosen are for? I know that it's been said that the gods are making Chosen under the impression that they'll be better off, but I haven't seen any confirmation that this is true, or I've missed it.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2014 : 03:42:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Has anyone seen anything official about what the Chosen are for? I know that it's been said that the gods are making Chosen under the impression that they'll be better off, but I haven't seen any confirmation that this is true, or I've missed it.
This is a rather difficult question to answer, since it has, mostly, in the past, been dependent upon both the whims of a particular author, and the direction of a novel's plot.
The sourcebooks certainly seem to trail the "Chosen as an extension of a power's authority in the mortal Realms" for most of the path, but that certainly hasn't prevented new Chosen popping up here and there -- and all without this particular mandate governing their appearances. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lucifer_Drake
Acolyte
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2014 : 20:06:31
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| I want Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, Mask, Bhaal & Myrkul to be brought back. But in my Realms campaign they are still alive as the Avatar Crisis never happened. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2014 : 20:34:39
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| E & V. I love big Mo, but I kinda like him in the wind. Ibrandul? Wasn't he known as the Crawler Below? The only mention of him I can remember is in the story about Thazienne ''Tazi'' Uzkevren, the title of the book eludes me ATM. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 07 Sep 2014 20:57:34 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2014 : 21:05:29
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| All hail the fluffy bunny. On your knees, dog. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 07:18:24
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Well, I would like Tyr, Helm, the Drow Pantheon(especialy Eilistraee and Vhaeraun), Leira, Gargauth, Talos, Azuth, Sarvas, Mystra(although this one is more, or less confimed allready) Moander, and possibly Myrkul and Bhaal to return.
Most of the drow gods deaths were stupid and anticlimatic, especialy Eilistraee's/Masked Lady's. The same about Tyr and Helm, and the whole romantic triangle fiasco was grossly out of character. About Myrkul and Bhaal, I have a bit doubts about them returing, beause they are pretty interesting as dead powers, and Myrkul's portfolios will be at odds with Kelemvor's and Cyric's. Although one can have him return as a Vecna-like figure...
Also, can anyone say what is Mielikki's and Eldath's status? The last I heard about Eldath, is that she was a Primal Spirit, but not more after that, and Mielikki is on the dead god thread.. |
Edited by - Baltas on 08 Sep 2014 07:26:52 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 11:05:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well, I would like Tyr, Helm, the Drow Pantheon(especialy Eilistraee and Vhaeraun), Leira, Gargauth, Talos, Azuth, Sarvas, Mystra(although this one is more, or less confimed allready) Moander, and possibly Myrkul and Bhaal to return.
Most of the drow gods deaths were stupid and anticlimatic, especialy Eilistraee's/Masked Lady's. The same about Tyr and Helm, and the whole romantic triangle fiasco was grossly out of character. About Myrkul and Bhaal, I have a bit doubts about them returing, beause they are pretty interesting as dead powers, and Myrkul's portfolios will be at odds with Kelemvor's and Cyric's. Although one can have him return as a Vecna-like figure...
Also, can anyone say what is Mielikki's and Eldath's status? The last I heard about Eldath, is that she was a Primal Spirit, but not more after that, and Mielikki is on the dead god thread..
Every single deity you mentioned -but the Drow Pantheon and Moander- has been brought back, either in a novel (Helm, Mystra), adventure (Bhaal), or is mentioned in the PHB and active post Sundering (all the deities in the PHB can be picked for their new organized play thingy, which is set in 1487/1489). Mielikki has never been killed AFAIK 
Basically every god has been restored. However, the PHB list is not complete, and only includes the head deities for the nonhuman pantheons, so we don't know what they're going to do with E&V yet. Considering that they have just put Drizzt as the new 'inspiration' for drow who seek alternatives (or so they say in the PHB  ) and that they discarded good new lore to bring E&V back 2 years ago, I have a feel that devs at WotC don't like them. Nonetheless restoring almost (or actually) everyone else and singling them out would be a slap in the face, especially when it comes to such popular deities, so we'll see... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Sep 2014 11:15:16 |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 13:13:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Every single deity you mentioned -but the Drow Pantheon and Moander- has been brought back, either in a novel (Helm, Mystra), adventure (Bhaal), or is mentioned in the PHB and active post Sundering (all the deities in the PHB can be picked for their new organized play thingy, which is set in 1487/1489). Mielikki has never been killed AFAIK
Basically every god has been restored. However, the PHB list is not complete, and only includes the head deities for the nonhuman pantheons, so we don't know what they're going to do with E&V yet. Considering that they have just put Drizzt as the new 'inspiration' for drow who seek alternatives (or so they say in the PHB ) and that they discarded good new lore to bring E&V back 2 years ago, I have a feel that devs at WotC don't like them. Nonetheless restoring almost (or actually) everyone else and singling them out would be a slap in the face, especially when it comes to such popular deities, so we'll see...
I'm happy to know that. Althrough I forgot about a few important i want back, like Shaundakul(althogh he was never dead to my info, only missing), The Mulhorandi pantheon, and Gilgeam(the guy was very interesting, and more important than for example Ibrandul). A merged Isis/Ishtar deity under Sune for example, would be interesting. So what about them?
Sad that the Darkbringer is still dead, he's one of my favorites. I hope they at least reference Moander more, he has enourmous potential, at least to me.
And yeah, I also get the feeling that WOTC doesn't like the drow pantheon, they like Lloth very much through, quite like they do Shar. Althrough I like the Mistress of the Night quite much, I think writters are overusing her, not to mention, often make her seem like a generic villian
I asked for Mielikki, as she's on the favorite dead deity poll
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15015&results=1 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 16:25:07
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| If it's true that WotC doesn't like the drow pantheon, then that's too bad. For one thing, the Realms is very polytheistic, and the drow would be one of the very few races that only has one deity. We couldn't even call it a pantheon. For another thing, E and V are popular (you can see they have a number of fans here on Candlekeep), so bringing them back would be good for business. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 16:53:42
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
If it's true that WotC doesn't like the drow pantheon, then that's too bad. For one thing, the Realms is very polytheistic, and the drow would be one of the very few races that only has one deity. We couldn't even call it a pantheon. For another thing, E and V are popular (you can see they have a number of fans here on Candlekeep), so bringing them back would be good for business.
You can see that in this very thread. The only thing that keeps me hoping is that Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are part of Ed's original vision of the Realms and of his campaign, and have been so even before TSR asked for them to be published. Perhaps he wishes them back too (also, he hinted that it's highly likely that we haven't seen the last of Eilistraee, so maybe...).
quote:
I'm happy to know that. Althrough I forgot about a few important i want back, like Shaundakul(althogh he was never dead to my info, only missing), The Mulhorandi pantheon, and Gilgeam(the guy was very interesting, and more important than for example Ibrandul). A merged Isis/Ishtar deity under Sune for example, would be interesting. So what about them?
Nothing new on the Mulhorandi pantheon (or Mulhorand itself, or any of the LOLNUKED lands, for that matter).
I think Shaundakul is still alive, and it would be very easy to reintroduce him, the traveler type, as nothing has been said on his disappearence.
quote:
they like Lloth very much through
They like the most boring and 1-dimensional of them, ''I'm evil 'cause evil is kewl and love/happiness are weakness and other edgy stuff. I want power and everything to bow to me, so I do only 1 thing in my life and that is plotting to gain more. Also I pit my followers against each other no matter what, even if it costs the success of my plans, 'cause 'chaos' and only the strongest must survive (even if that means wasting talents, ideas or even geniality, because hey, who cares if my people have been stagnating for millennia)''. Not to mention that her drow are as one-note as her... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Sep 2014 17:17:04 |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2014 : 16:28:06
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I got the Player's Handbook finally, and it got some pretty interesting stuff. I like how they used the 1st edition inspired configuration for the planes, combining it in a interesting way with the 4e planes like Elemental Chaos, Feywild, and Shadowfell.
But to get to the important stuff. Myrkul changed apparently to Neutral Evil, and is now the god of death, while Bhaal, who also is noe NE, is the god of murder, which apparently Kelemvor and Cyric lost, althrough the gods portfolio aren't here 100% clear. I wonder how will be Kelemvor's and Myrkul's relationship? Mask also is now Chaotic Neutral
The Death domain is handled strangely, as it seems to be now associated with evil, and seems to be fused with the old Evil, Dark, and Destruction domains, instead of being just Death. Oddly, Osiris doesn't have the Death domain, despite being the God Of Dead, but Set has it.
A lot of the Demigods aren't present, like Sharess, Jergal, Uthgar, and Valkur, but it doesn't imply they are dead. I think they will be just published latter.
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Edited by - Baltas on 10 Sep 2014 16:30:19 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2014 : 16:49:52
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If Myrkul is the god of death, then what is Kelemvor now?
Is the FR handbook or just general D&D? I didn't see any FR 5e sourcebooks last time I went to the bookstore. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2014 : 17:16:30
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Well, Kelemvor is now just the god of dead(like Hades, or Myrkul originaly), and Myrkul is the god of death(like Thanatos, or Bhaal originaly).
It's a general D&D handbook, so don't worry, you didn't miss anything. And I talked about Osiris and Set, as their mentioned as a part of the Egyptian pantheon(one of the real world pantheons presented, along with the Greek, Norse, and Celtic one). As Irennan said, still no word about Mulhorand and their pantheon. |
Edited by - Baltas on 10 Sep 2014 17:25:09 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2014 : 17:21:36
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Hmm, I liked Kelemvor as the god of death, personally, but oh well. Thanks for the info  |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2014 : 17:30:24
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| Yeah, I also liked Kelemvor as the god of death. And they could give Myrkul a Vecna-like portfolio, Eric L. Boyd already had them as their own counterparts(in the realms, The Hand of Vecna and Eye of Vecna, became the Hand and Eye of Myrkul etc...), or have him be the god of Necromancy. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2014 : 18:32:53
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Kelemvor is still there, tho. What's his area of influence? The dead?
Also, since they listed the egyptian gods, maybe including the mulhorandi ones would have been redundant. Lets keep in mind that this merely is a PHB, they didn't even bother to include most nonhuman deities, double listing some names is totally out of the question. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 10 Sep 2014 18:39:40 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 22:46:40
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| Helm is alive and Eilistraee is coming back?! Where is this mentioned? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 22:59:31
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Helm has returned in ''The Sentinel'' (one of the books about the Sundering).
Eilistraee may be coming back, or so it has been hinted (Ed said ''it's higly likely that we haven't seen the last of Eilistraee''. As I said, she was supposed to return two years ago with a 4e drow sourcebook, but -sadly- the lore about that was cut at the end. Maybe they will use it for 5e).
Either way, I guess that we gotta wait for the eventual FRCS to get a complete picture of the situation. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 15 Sep 2014 23:03:32 |
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SacredServant
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2014 : 19:50:10
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| Now that Lathander is back, is Amauntar phased out? The description of his return in "the Reaver" was a bit confusing to me. Also, is the sun part of his portfolio? |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2014 : 23:13:09
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Amaunathor is also still around in Godborn. As far as I understand it, Lathander is the morning sun aspect of the sungod and Amaunathor is his highsun aspect. It's the same deity just under different aliases, revered for different aspects of it's being in different regions of the realms. Wondering about the sunset aspect of the sungod though :)
As for Kelemvore, I could imagine, that he might be the god who judges the dead, after the grim reaper aka. Myrkul sent them on their way. |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 05 Oct 2014 23:19:54 |
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Faerunian Pantheon Spoilers
