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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2007 : 01:21:30
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Apparently Eberron is getting a new source book next year
City of Stormreach
Here
Presumably it will be similar to Eric Boyds City of Splendors
So if CoS sold enough that there giving Eberron a shot at the same format the question has to be asked when is the realms getting another shot?
I reckon they should do a CoS style book on one of the following
Suzail
Calimport
Baldurs Gate
Zhentil Keep
Hopefully we are not doomed to drown in a sea of modules in 2008
Mod Edit: I applied some "URL" magic to Dargoth's link.
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 May 2007 01:58:42
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 04:42:09
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Well met Dargoth,
I whole-heartedly agree with you about the "not drowning in a sea of modules."
I'd second a Zhentil Keep style sourcebook, Suzail would be nice (so would all of freaking Cormyr!).
Calimshan seems like it would be part of the "regional accessory" to me, but if they'd be specific enough to do that city alone I wouldn't complain at all.
Baldur's Gate would be great, primarily since I want to do a BG style campaign someday.
What I'd add, simply because I don't see enough sourcebooks:
Nimbral (the web articles over at WotC were quite nice, I want more)
Tashulta, mainly because the Tashalar has been getting a good deal of looks due to the Shackled City Adventure Path & the Savage Tide Adventure Path.
Mezro because I'd love to see it.
Thaymount. We all love AND hate the Red Wizards, but this book would just rock.
That's off the top of my head of what I'd add, don't ask if I get all my sourcebooks out...
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 04:46:38
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I suggested a while ago that Wizards should release 2 books each year set in the same region 1 a city book and one a regional souce book
For example in 2008 you get
Suzail (A 160 page book detailing the city similar to CoS)
Cormyr (A 160 book detailing the rest of Cormyr)
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 04:58:11
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I like that idea. That would certainly make a great deal of sense from both a player and DM's standpoint. That might make certain regions more known and utilized. I'd love to see what they would do in that vein of ideas, especially since we'd gobble it right up.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 05:36:47
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Hello-
Possible Spoilers Alert - You have been warned. :)
Well - I have some cities to add to the possible list:
Silverymoon - Ok - its pretty close to Waterdeep - but I like the city, and from what I can tell - stuff nearby is brewing...
Myth Drannor - OK - maybe this one is jumping the gun a bit. :)
Sorry - I dont remember the nam e - but Blackstaff by Steven Schend gets the point across. :)
Starmantle - I dont know why really - I always liked its positioning - and the name I like too.
besides these simple 9basically) suggestions - it could even be broadened a tad. Perhaps a number of smaller cities/towns in a fairly tight geographic area (like say, Western Heartlands) or even someplace like The Great Rift - and the Dwarven city-realm there.
Dhomal
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 05:55:15
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| The place at the end of Blackstaff doesnt really have enough of a Population to fill a 160 page source book, to a lesser degree the same could be said for Myth Drannor the best way I think to do that city would be to do a mega module sort of like the old Ruins of Adventure/Pool of radiance Module/PC game I imagine Myth Drannors probably in a similar state to Phlan at the start of Ruins of adventure (ie a small Civilized area surrounded by a much larger monster ridden area) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 19:27:45
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A Ptolus style supplement for Silverymoon would be fantastic, although a 'normal' supplement would be equally well recieved. Something about the Heartlands would be nice too. So a 'Dalelands' supplement, along with a 'Silverymoon' supplement would be pretty nice next year. Heck, I would love to see supplements for all the following cities.
Neverwinter (Quite why no one ever did one to tie in with Neverwinter Nights, I don't know. Golden marketing opportunity)
Westgate
Suzail
Evermeet
On another note, Stormreach is the City used in the DnD Online game, right? |
Edited by - Uzzy on 24 May 2007 19:33:27 |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 20:10:11
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| I'd love to see either a Cormyr or Dales sourcebook, preferably both! I think they each could use an update, particularly the latter. And the Western Heartlands has never had enough love in my opinion, so that would be near the top of my list. I don't know how well individual cities would sell in general terms; chances are I'd be interested anyway, but from a marketing point of view does anywhere with the possible exception of Silverymoon have the clout that Waterdeep does? |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 20:10:36
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Generally speaking...any sourcebook would be whole-heartedly welcome *g*.
But a supplement on Cormyr would be ace, in the style Dargoth spoke of it would even be double ace. Westgate and Silverymoon would also be very welcome. I also like Dhomal´s suggestion of a broader part of the Realms being covered in one source, as long as it´s not too broad. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 21:41:38
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I thought the Waterdeep counts as a region book for it's year because waterdeep was so big it demanded a full book?
Did something change? I thought everything else was just hopeful speculation... |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2007 : 16:35:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Heck, I would love to see supplements for all the following cities.
Neverwinter (Quite why no one ever did one to tie in with Neverwinter Nights, I don't know. Golden marketing opportunity)
I seemto recall it being mentioned that it is in fact because of the Neverwinter Nights games that there's not been much done with that area since the release of the last 2nd edition "North" sourcebook (the same being the case with Baldur's Gate as well). Of course, I could be barking up a tree in the wrong forest for all I know |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2007 : 22:45:03
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That would be an odd reason for it, but I can just about see it being that! 
It would be a golden marketing opportunity though. WOTC could release a 'Neverwinter' sourcebook at the same time as the game, have some cross advertising, and you might end up attracting players of the computer game to the PnP game. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2007 : 13:58:42
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| I would like to see a large book dealing with several cities. Perhaps 4 cities at 40 pages each. Westgate, Neverwinter, perhaps a Amn or tethyr city, perhaps Luskan, Elturel, Iraibor, etc |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2007 : 21:59:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
That would be an odd reason for it, but I can just about see it being that!
It seems to me that WotC actually likes to give game designers room to develop areas that their games are set in (in this case, the area in and around Neverwinter). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2007 : 15:59:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I reckon they should do a CoS style book on one of the following
Suzail
Calimport
Baldurs Gate
Zhentil Keep
Mod Edit: I applied some "URL" magic to Dargoth's link.
______________________________________________________________________
Just wanted to support the first Proposal  - I would like to see some information from Calimport.
Anybody heard from some source books or informations from the more exotic regions - Halrua or Chult for example? Maybe this wouldn't be a marketing opportunity - but I would find it cool to get a tour around the Realm...
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2007 : 21:49:59
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In looking at this question, I believe that there are probably some larger questions that need to be addressed.
1) What is the object of having a city source book?
From my perspective, the object of having a city source book is to facillitate gaming in ways that are not handled by the core campaign setting. It provides depth and detail to an otherwise one or two paragraph treatment in a larger book. City books create a campaign setting within a campaign setting. The FRCS tells us that "the world is this way." A city source book should tells us that "While what the FRCS says is true, here is the exception, and we find it quite exciting."
2) What cities would warrant a source book treatment?
From answering the first question, we begin to know the answer to the second. A city that warrants a source book is a city whose true flavor is not properly expressed in the FRCS. This postulates that such cities must tend to be larger and emblematic of a society or civilization. Waterdeep, for instance, is the quintessential city of the Sword Coast North. In detailing Waterdeep, we now know more of the peculiar flavor of the entire region. Suzail, on the other hand gets a generous treatment in the FRCS as does its surrounding country. Cormyr (and to a lesser extent the Dalelands) seem to be the staple of the Campaign Setting from the standpoint of word count alone. Thus, these two regions would not necessarilly be eligable under our criteria especially when one considers the sheer amount of print devoted to them in novels and in previous editions. What cities might qualify? Baldur's Gate, West Gate, Athkatla, Silverymoon, Calimport, Iriebor.
3) How would a city source book fit into WotC's current marketing strategy?
WotC is currently re-aligning their marketing strategy. In the beginning, when the OGL was first published, the thought was that WotC would print rule books and Campaign Settings and that 3rd parties would write adventures. Over the years, however, 3rd parties have been much more interested in printing their own rules and campaign settings and no one has been exploring the market for adventure modules. This year seems to be a course correction. Taking the initiative (they rolled high), WotC is releasing all kinds of modules to recapture that audience and collect the money that no one has been pursuing. Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave seems to be testing the water as did Mysteries of the Moonsea. MotM was a City Source Book, Regional Source Book, and Module Hybrid that some found distasteful. C:ttotW is a Super Module with a respectable appendix detailing the city of Wheloon and seems to have been better recieved. The next evolution could be:
Step 1: Release a City Source Book
Step 2: Release a module anthology (along the lines of Four from Cormyr) in and around the city depicted.
Step 3: Release a super-module revolving around that city
Step 4: Release novels revolving around the depicted city.
Step 5: Produce miniatures depicting characters from the novels and modules.
I don't know for sure that we'll see this (it would be like putting a year's worth of eggs into one basket), but it is the next logical step in marketing evolution. In short, a City Source Book is only functional if it is strong enough to affect your spending habits. Some of you buy modules... some do not. But would you be more inclined to buy a module if you had the city source book? Many of you do not buy mini's. Would you buy minis if they were for the module that you bought to complement the shiny source book that you purchased?
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2007 : 15:25:48
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| Well, no sourcebook ever details ALL of a City. Developers would be able to have plenty of creative freedom, and if the sourcebook was made at the same time as the game, then you could have many of the events that happen in the game and areas you go to in that sourcebook. Would be interesting. Though, I do get what your saying about giving developers more room to manoeuvre. I just think that a sourcebook for Neverwinter brought out around the same time as the Video Games might bring in many people to PnP. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2007 : 23:08:39
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Since Calimport had its own sourcebook in the olden days, I'd love to see an update on the city for 3.5. The place is huge and has tons of room for interesting adventures, and as one of the truly huge cities of Faerun, and given that the Lands of Intruige have seen little love in 3.5 I think this would be a great one.
Silverymoon is another city that seems like it would be perfect for its own stand alone product, and it feels like this one has been a long time coming, yet its never really come about.
Zhentil Keep would be good as well. Not only is it the preeminant "evil" city of the Heartlands, we could use an update to see how its advanced since the Ruins of Zhentil keep boxed set (I know we got a bit of an update in Mysteries of the Moonsea, but more detail would be great). Not only that, but it would give an excuse to see a bit more of the growing "Zhent Empire," with some updates on recent events.
Westgate is also another great "adventure city" with lots of hooks for PCs that wander around there.
Neverwinter and Baldur's Gate would both be great as well, but I beleive both are still under a cloud of mystery due to the games that bear their names. Neverwinter Nights is going to have an expansion, and even though its set in Rashemen, for some reason the "base city" in these games always seem to remain locked up. Its a shame too, because Neverwinter was one of the first places in the Realms I ran a campaign. I love the details from the old 1st and 2nd edition sourcebooks.
Baldur's Gate 3, as far as I know, is still under development out there somewhere, and its suppose to be based heavily on the history of the city, so that its not likely that we'll see anything on this city until either the game gets made or it finally dies officially. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2007 : 23:23:02
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Baldur's Gate 3, as far as I know, is still under development out there somewhere, and its suppose to be based heavily on the history of the city, so that its not likely that we'll see anything on this city until either the game gets made or it finally dies officially.
I have the feeling it's probably still "vaporware" (I haven't heard anything about it in a long time). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 00:28:17
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I would love to see the following areas cities:
Skuld (It would be nice to get some info on it)
Sembia
Shade (It would be cool to learn about them)
the Chessenta region would be cool as well
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"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 00:37:14
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Sembia
Which city in Sembia?
Remember, several of the larger cities in Sembia did receive some rather interesting treatment serving as settings for most of the novels in the "Sembia" series. Thus, they may not exactly be on WotC's "must-detail-this-city" list...
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 17:57:53
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| True I hadn't thought of it like that, well Skullport could use an update as well, but its not any great rush. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 03:11:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Baldur's Gate 3, as far as I know, is still under development out there somewhere, and its suppose to be based heavily on the history of the city, so that its not likely that we'll see anything on this city until either the game gets made or it finally dies officially.
I have the feeling it's probably still "vaporware" (I haven't heard anything about it in a long time).
Last I heard about it was back when PC Gamer did an article on D&D video games, I think two years ago, before NWN 2 and DDO were released. But in that article Atari was ardent that they were going to put this one out, and they thought they were really onto something with setting it in Faerun's past, near the founding of Baldur's Gate.
Which I thought was odd considering the main reason Baldur's Gate was named thusly was because that was were the climax of the game was, not because it was ABOUT Baldur's Gate.
Ah well. The problem is, unless Atari admits its dead, if there are any outstanding NDA, they likely won't clear up. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 07:41:36
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Well, one of the cities of the Western Heartlands or the Dragon Reach would be a possibility to update the regions as a whole somewhat with notes on relationships with, and happenings within, other settlements of the area. Iriabor or Elturel would be nice, as would Westgate. Come to think of it Elturel is of limits for some old PC game reasons( I think), so unless this is lifted that city is of the list.
Luskan could also be an interesting alternative, as could Arabel. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 01:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, one of the cities of the Western Heartlands or the Dragon Reach would be a possibility to update the regions as a whole somewhat with notes on relationships with, and happenings within, other settlements of the area. Iriabor or Elturel would be nice, as would Westgate. Come to think of it Elturel is of limits for some old PC game reasons( I think), so unless this is lifted that city is of the list.
Luskan could also be an interesting alternative, as could Arabel.
They could do one for all of the cities of that region, Elturel, Iriaboer, Scornubel, Berdusk, etc. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 02:47:15
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, one of the cities of the Western Heartlands or the Dragon Reach would be a possibility to update the regions as a whole somewhat with notes on relationships with, and happenings within, other settlements of the area. Iriabor or Elturel would be nice, as would Westgate. Come to think of it Elturel is of limits for some old PC game reasons( I think), so unless this is lifted that city is of the list.
Luskan could also be an interesting alternative, as could Arabel.
They could do one for all of the cities of that region, Elturel, Iriaboer, Scornubel, Berdusk, etc.
I have to admit...I kind of prefer those cities not being overly detailed. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 07:30:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, one of the cities of the Western Heartlands or the Dragon Reach would be a possibility to update the regions as a whole somewhat with notes on relationships with, and happenings within, other settlements of the area. Iriabor or Elturel would be nice, as would Westgate. Come to think of it Elturel is of limits for some old PC game reasons( I think), so unless this is lifted that city is of the list.
Luskan could also be an interesting alternative, as could Arabel.
They could do one for all of the cities of that region, Elturel, Iriaboer, Scornubel, Berdusk, etc.
I have to admit...I kind of prefer those cities not being overly detailed.
I agree, but as so little information is given about these city states,there is a tendency to overlook them in the power and trading structure of the Ralms. Together the central Sword Coast and the Dragon Coast are meeting points of most of the other (detailed)lands and will therefore have an important role in the Realms as a whole. If Ed were to be involved in the writing of one of these I would be a very happy man indeed.
As for detailing the city's together, this would more or less be a source book of the Western Heartlands. I would love that, but it wouldn't be a City source-book more than the old Forgotten Realms Adventures book is. If a collection of cities where to be written, it would probably be a better idea to take one country, such as Cormyr or Sembia. In other words; where is Volo when we need him?
The problem is picking any single settlement (with the exception of Waterdeep) that holds such a dominant position as to demand a whole book on its own. I agree that Calimport would be a possibility. Its already been done, true, but as this is the only one of Steven Schends products I really don't like, it would be interesting to see some new information written.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 11:11:28
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| Well, they could do a "Cities of the Realms" series of source books... A bunch of oh, 96-page softbacks with 4 cities each in them.... |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 14:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
True I hadn't thought of it like that, well Skullport could use an update as well, but its not any great rush.
Well I didn't know that Skullport is in Sembia - but I like the idea nevertheless 
quote:
Well, they could do a "Cities of the Realms" series of source books... A bunch of oh, 96-page softbacks with 4 cities each in them....
Great idea - I would like to see a lot of them, most have already been mentioned here.
As some have missed Volo to do a "update-touring" touring through the Realms - I also would like to see a "Dungeons stumbled in"  |
Edited by - Matthus on 05 Jun 2007 14:28:20 |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 16:31:30
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Neverwinter and Baldur's Gate would both be great as well, but I beleive both are still under a cloud of mystery due to the games that bear their names.
This doesn't seem to be a hindrance for the Eberron line however. Since Stormreach has been featured in a 6 page write up in Secrets of Xen'drik (quite similar to the way cities were written up in the 2nd ed. Forgotten Realms Adventures book). Remember that it is the primary locale for D&D Online (and since there are already some discrepancies between the source book entry and the virtual realm, there are likely to be many more with an entire book being dedicated).
Perhaps WOTC is looking to do more product focus in cross platform titles, so maybe a BG or Neverwinter Sourcebook is not so far fetched after all.....well one can hope
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2007 : 00:08:09
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| That may be true, but the it also depends on if these are the same NDAs that were written for the original NWN and Baldur's Gate games, or of they have expired and have been rewritten. If they are the same ones still in effect, modern philosophy on what to be able to expound upon might be different than what the NDAs reflect. Then again, most of us here aren't likely to know any of those details, and the few that do aren't likely to be able to discuss it. |
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So when are we getting our next City Source book?
