| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Apr 2007 : 21:39:46
|
Scenario: A creature is inside a Dead Magic area. A Mirror of Opposition is outside the Dead Magic area. The creature sees its reflection in the mirror.
Questions (3.5 Edition):
1) Does the mirror of opposition create a clone of the creature?
My logic would be yes since the mirror is functioning outside the dead magic area and being in a dead magic area does not stop someone from seeing their reflection in a mirror. Thoughts?
2) Can a clone from a mirror of opposition enter a dead magic area?
A Mirror of Opposition is based on the Clone spell which is instantaneous. Clones are therefore not magical after creation and are not subject to dispelling, antimagic shells and dead magic areas.
Alternatively, the Mirror of Opposition could be seen as a one-way gate to the Plane of Mirrors (Manual of the Planes) in which case it allows the characters reflection to enter the prime plane. (This is a better explanation of the functioning of this device in my opinion however it is not supported by the rules.)
In either case the clone should be able to enter the Dead Magic Area. Thoughts?
3) A clone in an Inn (Yawning Portal to be precise) gets blinded during an ambush while trying to pursue its prey through the exit door.
Motivated to slay its prey, but unable to see anything, is it reasonable for a 10 Intelligence clone to close the door and ask for help against assassins or should the blind clone suicidally continue to attack ineffectually?
Thanks for any feedback,
Exploit
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2007 : 22:03:46
|
My quick reaction is no it will not work.
The person in daed magic zone will not sees its reflection as a magical effect. The person would only see a normal image, the magic of the mirror can not make a magical copy because its magic can not penertate the dead magic zone to know the person. It can not know experience, magical properties of any equipment carried, etc.
Even is somehow a clone could be made (which I do not see can occur) it could not enter a zone of dead magic, because it is solely magic. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
 |
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2007 : 22:52:37
|
| Clones act like real persons so they could ask for help like any other intelligent creature. A lone clone is not very intelligent if it's chasing its prey without any help if its protected by a powerful party of adventurers. Unless the party doesnt know he's the clone offcourse :plotting: |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2007 : 05:33:54
|
A magical item based on a spell does not always have the same effect. The Mirror of Opposition clone disappears after the battle is over, win or lose. It is not the same clone of a clone spell cast that can not be dispelled. The clone from the Mirror is different. Knowing a spell clone is required to craft the device, however the clone produced is not the same as casting the spell. There are scattered examples of magic items requiring knowledge of a spell to craft a device that works differently then casting the spell itself. I look to item description to try to guage the differences between the device spell effect and the casting of the actual spell.
The Mirror in this example needs to magicaly detect a person in a zone where magic does not work. It can not happen because magic does not work in dead magic zone.
The clone produced from the Mirror (if one gets away from dead magic zone problem) only lives until battle is done. The clone spell cast directly has a different result, either the clone or traget continue to live after defeat of the other. Also if I recall correctly, the clone from the spell is not granted equimement like the clone from the mirror gets.
In other words, there are clones and there are lessor clones. The mirror produces a lessor clone as far as perment life, it is a magical construct and not a living person with a future. The only thing the Mirror clone has going for it is it has the same equipment as the traget. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2007 : 16:29:36
|
I seem to be in the minority on my ruling so I will retroactively modify the mirror of opposition so that the campaign events that have already occurred will still adhere to the rules.
If the Mirror of Opposition was a Shadow Weave item and the Dead Magic Area affected the Weave only and not the Shadow Weave then the above scenario should work, right?
My logic is the triggering should work since it's done by Shadow Weave magic and the mirror reflection, also being created of the Shadow Weave, should be able to move through a Dead Weave Magic area. Anyone see any canon rules violations in my logic?
Because I am retroactively altering reality to fix my mistake, I believe to be fair that I should give my player an equivalent boon. I'm running an evil campaign where the BOVD sacrifice rules are being used frequently. I am considering giving the PC an additional instance of the Wish spell (achieved by a DC 50 sacrifice check, normally only allowed once in a lifetime) every time I have alter reality due to a bad ruling on my part. Therefore the PC in question could now perform the sacrifice twice in his lifetime and if successful be granted a wish both times. Does this seem like an equitable rule of thumb to people? |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 15:43:00
|
<<The clone spell cast directly has a different result, either the clone or traget continue to <<live after defeat of the other.
This is changed (thankfully, as this was an easy way to kill someone in previous editions by creating a clone of them without their consent). In 3.5 either the clone or the other is alive at the same time. The soul transfers from the living to the clone. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 15:54:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Exploit
I am considering giving the PC an additional instance of the Wish spell (achieved by a DC 50 sacrifice check, normally only allowed once in a lifetime) every time I have alter reality due to a bad ruling on my part. Therefore the PC in question could now perform the sacrifice twice in his lifetime and if successful be granted a wish both times. Does this seem like an equitable rule of thumb to people?
Not to me... I'd chalk up the flub to an honest mistake, and keep going from there. If the PC complains, I'd consider an XP bonus or something... But a free wish? Not no, hell no! I can't think of any circumstances where I'd give out that spell as a freebie. It would either be a serious reward or from something like a deck of many things (where the possibility of a serious reward is balanced by the possibility of a serious penalty). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Dead Magic Area & Mirror of Opposition
