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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Apr 2007 : 00:11:34
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Way to work that segway Erik 
What can I say?
King of transitions. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 04:40:09
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Hello-
I ifinished this section - and have since started to plunge further on!
I came in and read the comments here afterwards - but did not have the time to make any comments at the time.
I am really enjoying the book Erik!
I do have one, somewhat naieve question. :)
From what I have read here - this is not Twilight's first appearance. However - it is my first finding of her - where else has she appeared - other than the web store attached to Depths? (*Which I have printed - but I am reading the book first. :) *)
Many thanks!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 05:19:40
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| It's in Erik's story in Realms of the Elves. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 23:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Hello-
I ifinished this section - and have since started to plunge further on!
I came in and read the comments here afterwards - but did not have the time to make any comments at the time.
I am really enjoying the book Erik!
Excellent! I'm glad, and I look forward to any and all comments your time and inclinations permit. 
quote:
From what I have read here - this is not Twilight's first appearance. However - it is my first finding of her - where else has she appeared - other than the web store attached to Depths? (*Which I have printed - but I am reading the book first. :) *)
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
It's in Erik's story in Realms of the Elves.
What 'e said. 
(It's an anthology you should definitely pick up -- there are very excellent stories in there.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 06:11:49
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Hello-
Well - I own the book already. However - I was somewhat waiting to read from it as I had thought that many of the stories related to the trilogy - ah - can't remember name.
Anyway - I will look into it after Depths and after I read the lead-in short story.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 16:35:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Well - I own the book already. However - I was somewhat waiting to read from it as I had thought that many of the stories related to the trilogy - ah - can't remember name.
Anyway - I will look into it after Depths and after I read the lead-in short story.
Cool, cool -- the anthology as a whole relates thematically (elves) to the Last Mythal trilogy.
Salvatore's story is very much connected to the Hunter's Blades trilogy, so you might want to put it off unless you've made it through that trilogy.
Byers's story is a prequel to the Rogue Dragons trilogy (prequel by 10,000 years or some such).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 03:34:18
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Hello-
Thats the sort of thing I was worried about. :)
I seem to have fallen behind in trilogy-reading, while I concentrated during the last yaer or more on all the class novels and such.
With Salvatore - I lost track of what I have read - and what I have not - but I fear I am like 9-12 books behind there. :)
But - rest assured - I will dig it out and read through it! :)
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 15:49:26
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I wouldn't be too worried -- Byers's, Smedman's, Athans's, Greenwood's, and my stories are all not terribly connected to a particular trilogy. (That is, you don't have to read anything else to be on the same page.)
For Greenwood, it would help to have some sense of the Knights of Myth Drannor, but the story is rather just an independent adventure that they have.
For Baker, who writes the Last Mythal trilogy, the story does indeed take place during the trilogy, but as long as you have a general sense of what's going on in the trilogy (i.e. the elves are returning to Faerun and waging this big "crusade" to reclaim their homelands), then you're totally good.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
732 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2007 : 09:10:28
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As I mentioned in the 1-7 thread, I'll rather post my thoughts (if any in this vacuous skull of mine) and questions here, even if they still pertain to chapters 1-7.
Some thoughts first:
I know it's been established by all the prior works pertaining to 'Light that she does swing bisexual, but the quasy lesbian scene just didn't work for me. It seemed a little forced and altogether not very believable. I see no reason that 'Light would have even attempted to comfort Taslin (yay I got the name right this time), regardless of such comforting then leading to other things. Also, despite Taslin seeing Asson's death in a different light than I would as a human, I don't think she'd fall straight out of his now-cold-and-squashed-arms straight into the arms of another.
Then straight after, we get Taslin encouraging Liet to go and comfort 'Light. Again, since Liet had been bumbling-sneaking his way into 'Light's breeches anyway by now, I just felt this scene was a little forced. The only motivation of Taslin's part I can come up with would be a spiteful one -- in retribution for 'Light "forcing" herself into Taslin's grief -- and I can't reconcile that with Taslin's character as painted thusfar.
Things that didn't work for me aside, what's with "spit" and "spat"? Bad editing, or real use of the words in American English? I'm glad to notice a lot less editorial mistakes in this book than I have seen in other Realms novels, but I have noticed them, whereas Ghostwalker I can't recall a single one.
Broken things aside, here's my take on 'Light's group. They are all thralls -- for lack of a better word -- of whomever is the master/mistress of the dungeon. And it's probably not Gestal, since s/he/it was just as shocked at the hand coming out of the wall.
That brings up another thought though, what's up with that. It seems the Depths of Madness is like a far creepier version of Undermountain, where the DM can even control the physical realm his/her poor unfortunate and thoroughly trapped adventurers find themselves in.
Questions:
I'm not familiar with Slip's divine type sorcery/spell thievery, how does it work?
Liet can rebuke undead? Liet can rebuke the living? Liet is a wuss, but can stand up to Davoren's demonic/devilish suggestion? Talk about a high will save
Davoren killing Asson or helping to get him killed? He's not just a bully but a stupid one too? He serves a devilish master, yet can be harmed by cold iron, not silver?
The unseen DM can reshape the dungeon, yet won't "cut" a side tunnel for his pet troll and leaves the poor dumb schmuck to warhammer his way past the debris?
Still enjoying the book, it's just a little too disjointed, even more than I suppose you intended it to be. Or perhaps you did... |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2007 : 19:11:47
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The lesbian seen threw me off for a second too, but only until I realized that it was Twilight that was being needy right there. Basically, I see it as Taslin leaned in to give a platonic comforting kiss and Twilight let down some defenses that she'd been trying to hold up for a while. That's a lot of what I see in this section is that Twilight just keeps losing all these defensive mechanisms she'd put in place, even to the point that she begins to think that she can't even trust herself.
Davoren serves Asmodeus, but he's born of the Abyss. This is why he's got the weakness to cold iron.
Yeah, I'd like to know more of Slip as well... she can heal and she's a sneaky type. Is she by chance an evil bard, or is there some class I'm not familiar with that opens up some abilities? I don't want to reveal what you find out later, but more about her "build" would be of interest to me. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2007 : 23:34:31
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| I, too, saw the "lesbian" scene as an instance of both characters needing comfort--albeit different levels of it. Grief does different things to different people. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2007 : 01:04:58
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Sleyvas and Kyrene, I've sought to answer both your sets of questions in this post.
Lyrna, you're spot on!
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
I know it's been established by all the prior works pertaining to 'Light that she does swing bisexual, but the quasy lesbian scene just didn't work for me. It seemed a little forced and altogether not very believable.
I'm sorry it didn't work for you. But if you're interested in an explanation, read on! Sleyvas had pretty much the right of it (see his explanation, above)--this is Twilight being needy and reading more into the gesture than there is. This is not a romantic moment between the two--or, perhaps, it is, but not for both of them.
quote:
I see no reason that 'Light would have even attempted to comfort Taslin (yay I got the name right this time), regardless of such comforting then leading to other things. Also, despite Taslin seeing Asson's death in a different light than I would as a human, I don't think she'd fall straight out of his now-cold-and-squashed-arms straight into the arms of another.
Sheesh! Show two ladies kissing and the lesbian alarm goes off! 
I kid, I kid. Yes, Twilight's bisexual (we've never seen her in a relationship with a woman yet, but hey, it could happen). No, Taslin isn't. And that's largely what's established in this scene!
From Taslin's perspective, this scene is her attempt to connect to Twilight and remind herself that she is still alive, even with Asson being dead. Kissing may not be a platonic sort of thing in most of our society, but that's really all Taslin means by it. It's a "celebrate life" moment.
From Twilight's perspective (Twilight being torn up about Asson as well, after her own fashion), this is the moment where Taslin turns to her for a new lover--which, of course, doesn't prove to be the case. Twilight doesn't comprehend friendship, so it's unthinkable that Taslin might want to connect to her in a non-romantic sense.
It's a misunderstanding between the two of them, which results in Twilight feeling rather stupid to have misinterpreted, uncomfortable with what she may have revealed about herself, and resentful that Taslin "forced" it out of her.
quote:
Then straight after, we get Taslin encouraging Liet to go and comfort 'Light. Again, since Liet had been bumbling-sneaking his way into 'Light's breeches anyway by now, I just felt this scene was a little forced. The only motivation of Taslin's part I can come up with would be a spiteful one -- in retribution for 'Light "forcing" herself into Taslin's grief -- and I can't reconcile that with Taslin's character as painted thusfar.
My intention in this scene was to present Taslin as wise and not a little compassionate--having just had that scene with Twilight minutes earlier, she understands that Twilight needs physical/romantic/erotic comfort, rather than any kind of platonic reassurance or connection (what Taslin took from Twilight). So that's the deal--she's not trying to inflict Liet on Twilight like a disease. She just sees that Liet very much goggles over Twilight, and understands that that's what Twilight needs--someone to take care of her needs.
quote:
Things that didn't work for me aside, what's with "spit" and "spat"? Bad editing, or real use of the words in American English? I'm glad to notice a lot less editorial mistakes in this book than I have seen in other Realms novels, but I have noticed them, whereas Ghostwalker I can't recall a single one.
I couldn't speak for the editing or the type-setting. I couldn't really guess what you're talking about specificially here. "Spit" is the present tense of "spat," which is the past tense.
quote:
Broken things aside, here's my take on 'Light's group. They are all thralls -- for lack of a better word -- of whomever is the master/mistress of the dungeon. And it's probably not Gestal, since s/he/it was just as shocked at the hand coming out of the wall.
That's a neat theory. No comment! 
quote:
That brings up another thought though, what's up with that. It seems the Depths of Madness is like a far creepier version of Undermountain, where the DM can even control the physical realm his/her poor unfortunate and thoroughly trapped adventurers find themselves in.
An even neater theory!
quote:
I'm not familiar with Slip's divine type sorcery/spell thievery, how does it work?
Slip is what's called a Favored Soul--which is a divine caster who uses magic intuitively, rather than through prayer and study. (First introduced in the D&D miniatures game, then the Complete Divine sourcebook.) It's like the sorcerer compared to the wizard. If I wanted to bring up an example of a favored soul, I'd probably pick on Cadderly from the Cleric Quintet, who seems--to me at least--to be a direct conduit of Deneir's power, and thus a favored soul.
As for her thieving--that isn't tied to her favored soul abilities. She's just a multiclass favored soul/rogue. (Because really, aren't all halflings at least a little rogue? )
As for Slip's build--well, only time will show.
quote:
Liet can rebuke undead? Liet can rebuke the living? Liet is a wuss, but can stand up to Davoren's demonic/devilish suggestion? Talk about a high will save
Yeah, there's something up with Liet. I believe it's mentioned at some point that it might be untapped sorcery. Or it could be something else. The favor of a deity, perhaps? Or maybe it's nothing. Who knows?
quote:
Davoren killing Asson or helping to get him killed? He's not just a bully but a stupid one too?
It's not stupid to try and get away with things that will aid you. Davoren sees Asson (as a wizard) as a threat. Given the opportunity--bye bye Asson. I left it purposefully unclear whether Davoren actually did something to contribute to Asson's death. The book doesn't come firmly out and say.
quote:
He serves a devilish master, yet can be harmed by cold iron, not silver?
Davoren is both devilish (in power) and demonic (in nature). There is abyssal blood in his ancestry.
quote:
The unseen DM can reshape the dungeon, yet won't "cut" a side tunnel for his pet troll and leaves the poor dumb schmuck to warhammer his way past the debris?
That's a good question. Why *won't* s/he do that?
quote:
Still enjoying the book, it's just a little too disjointed, even more than I suppose you intended it to be. Or perhaps you did...
Well, somethings that seem disjointed are intentionally disjointed--the explanation just isn't revealed yet. All I can say is, read on!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
732 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2007 : 08:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm sorry it didn't work for you. But if you're interested in an explanation, read on!
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and resentful that Taslin "forced" it out of her.
There's a lesbian scene in the book?  Quick call the Morals Police!
I kid too. It's not the fact that it was lesbian that was offputting, but rather that the premise didn't come off properly for me, personally. I did understand the underlying nuances of why, but didn't see the how as being convincing.
quote:
quote:
Things that didn't work for me aside, what's with "spit" and "spat"? Bad editing, or real use of the words in American English? I'm glad to notice a lot less editorial mistakes in this book than I have seen in other Realms novels, but I have noticed them, whereas Ghostwalker I can't recall a single one.
I couldn't speak for the editing or the type-setting. I couldn't really guess what you're talking about specificially here. "Spit" is the present tense of "spat," which is the past tense.
Oh, that's why I asked. There was a paragraph where one of the characters "spit" out some words, and a page or so later someone else "spat" out something. I wasn't sure if "spit" might also be past tense in American English, since it certainly isn't where I come from.
I actually finished the book on Saturday, therefore moving on to the next section... |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2007 : 15:34:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
I kid too. It's not the fact that it was lesbian that was offputting, but rather that the premise didn't come off properly for me, personally. I did understand the underlying nuances of why, but didn't see the how as being convincing.
Noted! Sorry it didn't work better for you.
Also--at least *I* don't think of it as a lesbian sort of moment. Only Twilight was the one with any sort of erotic intentions. I wouldn't want to label Taslin as a closet lesbian.
I mean, Twilight needs more time to work on her. You know! 
quote:
Oh, that's why I asked. There was a paragraph where one of the characters "spit" out some words, and a page or so later someone else "spat" out something. I wasn't sure if "spit" might also be past tense in American English, since it certainly isn't where I come from.
'Twould probably be better just to say "said," eh?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Depths of Madness: Chapters 8 - 13
