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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 17:16:32
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There are hints in Faiths & Pantheons that Lathander has a new plan to achieve his goals that went so wrong in the Dawn Cataclysm. Of course, when he originally put his plan into motion, he would not have called it a cataclsym. He thinks of it as a crusade to bring about a new dawn. Faiths & Pantheons hints that Lathander's new plan is imminent.
In Ed's latest Waterdeep News column, Lathander's church is recruiting people to build a new temple & farm complex north of Secomber. The construction was decreed by Lathander himself in a vision.
But what caught my eye was that, in the vision: "we saw a warrior-priest preaching to a throng of enthusiastic faithful. His words ended with the promise -- 'Our Lord leads us all through smoke and fire, to bright victory!'"
Could this project be in preparation for Lathander's new plan? Are there any other stirrings of some new Dawn Event in the making that anyone has noticed?
I sense the groundwork being laid for something momentous...
Mod edit: Add quotes around the URL to make the coding work right. 
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Dec 2006 16:48:47
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 17:26:17
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I would ask Ed when those "Waterdeep news" were written... maybe it's some old stuff that WOTC finally decided to put online after CoS was released. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 20:19:18
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Gray,
I wonder if this has anything to do with the heresy that is being spouted by that priest??? I can not remember his name, it was in Power of Faerun... The reason I mention this is that this "heretical" priest of Lathander has performed some huge miracles. This could be more proof that something big is coming... I will open the PoF tome when I get home tonight and fill in the huge gaps in my memory, and post... I did not pay close attention to this info as it did not have any direct bearing on my campaign... |
ShadowJack |
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 20:56:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Gray,
I wonder if this has anything to do with the heresy that is being spouted by that priest??? I can not remember his name, it was in Power of Faerun... The reason I mention this is that this "heretical" priest of Lathander has performed some huge miracles. This could be more proof that something big is coming... I will open the PoF tome when I get home tonight and fill in the huge gaps in my memory, and post... I did not pay close attention to this info as it did not have any direct bearing on my campaign...
I believe the name you are looking for is Daelegoth Orndeir. |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 21:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by sparhawk42
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Gray,
I wonder if this has anything to do with the heresy that is being spouted by that priest??? I can not remember his name, it was in Power of Faerun... The reason I mention this is that this "heretical" priest of Lathander has performed some huge miracles. This could be more proof that something big is coming... I will open the PoF tome when I get home tonight and fill in the huge gaps in my memory, and post... I did not pay close attention to this info as it did not have any direct bearing on my campaign...
I believe the name you are looking for is Daelegoth Orndeir.
and the leader of the Sun Soul monks in Waterdeep is his Cohort |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 00:24:22
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Here is a theory . . .
Amaunator is dying from lack of interest in him. The sun is a powerful portfolio, but people care little for the god himself, as he has failed to really promote his portfolio well. Amaunator is weak and has been fading for some time.
Lathander's worship is growing, and he is a popular deity. His faith is growing, but Lathander is an energetic god, and he wants to do as much good, over as much of the multiverse, as possible. He is actively looking for ways to expand his portfolio and his influence so that he can make the universe a better place.
Amaunator has been completely silent, and most gods believe that he has passed on. Lathander finds some artifact belonging to Amaunator, invested with much of what was left of his power. Lathander sees this, and, assuming Amaunator is dead, decides to absorb the power of the artifact, assimilating what was left of Amaunator to himself, and claiming the Sun as his portfolio as well.
Lathander feels a powerful surge of power, but strangly, decides to not fully embrace "his" role as a sun god yet. He is obsessed with aquireing more power to remake the universe as a "good" place, with a "good" pantheon of gods with himself as its head.
(Insert whatever you might hold to have happened during the Dawn Cataclysm here)
So, the random conspiracy theory here is that Amaunator, when he was dying, put all of his essense into the artifact that he tempted Lathander with. He "died" because all that was left of him was the artifact, but a fragment of his personality survived, and was willingly taken into Lathander when Lathander took in the artifact and its power.
Amaunator was actually pushing for the Dawn Cataclysm (obviously with better results) because if Lathander becomes Ultra Powerful, there will be power to spare and Amaunator can pull himself free of Lathander, at nearly full power, perhaps even in charge of whatever "pantheon" that Lathander manages to pull together.
In other words, Lathander is impetuous and overzealous, but many of his "unwise" moments have been when Amaunator has been "pushing" in on Lathander's conciousness, dulling the aspects of his mind that would tell him what he is doing isn't the best course of action. Perhaps even telling him that its fine to let his worshippers beleive that he is Amaunator reborn as long as it makes his church stronger. In reality, Amaunator is slowly building HIS OWN clergy once again, if he manages to pull free of Lathander. In fact, if the majority of Lathander's church is worshipping in the name of Amaunator, perhaps when he pulls free, Amaunator will actually have the lion's share of power, and Lathander might be a very weak power.
Just a theory, and not much to back it up except creating a framework to fit the facts.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 00:58:48
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What's funny (to me anyway) is that I already came up with a similar concept for a Lathander-oriented realm in the Border Kingdoms, run by one of my own characters...before I ever even read that article by Ed. :)
As far as stuff like this being a part of an overreaching plan...well, that's nothing new. Most gods (as far as I understand) try to improve their image and win over new followers all the time. Aren't new beginnings supposed to happen all the time, as far as Lathander is concerned? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Dec 2006 00:59:41 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 01:02:58
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Part of that reasoning is why I thought of my conspiracy theory above. While Lathander's dogma is pretty much NG, and his church is oriented this way, having this idea about reordering the universe and being in charge of a new "good" world order, and returning to this plan after it failed, it seems is a bit more "lawful" to my way of thinking.
Hence, once in a while, when Amaunator (or what's left of him) builds up his strength, he starts whispering goals in Lathander's psyche, subtly, and guiding him toward a plan. Thus, the LN alignment of Amaunator starts to come through the normally NG Lathander.
But again, its only my theory, and as I said, vaguely supported at best with a lot of conjecture and a little chewing gum. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 01:10:37
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| It's all just conjecture...but that can be fun. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 02:48:51
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| It's also possible, under your theory, that Amaunator, rather than breaking away from Lathander, intends to eventually merge with him more fully and/or subsume him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 02:51:46
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| I'd also involve Myrkul in this somehow because of Myrkul's dusk aspect and he was/is the third member of the triple deity concept. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 03:13:20
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| I was excited when I first read the Waterdeep News article by Ed. What a campaign idea! Nothing beats a good old fashion fantasy campaign Crusade. :) Any one using this in game yet? |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 03:18:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I'd also involve Myrkul in this somehow because of Myrkul's dusk aspect and he was/is the third member of the triple deity concept.
You know, I had some ideas about Myrkul actually wanting to get his hands on the Tablets of Fate, not to become more powerful, but to escape his fate as the dusk lord. Perhaps Myrkul is the one that taught Amaunator how to sequester a fragment of his personality in an artifact, a technique he himself used with the Crown of Horns.
Perhaps Myrkul actually fulfilled his purpose as the dusk lord by helping the "sun" go down in facilitating Amaunator's plan, and without realizing it, hastened his own demise by fulfiling his purpose in doing this.
Thanks for throwing that one in there . . . I'll have to think on this some more. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 03:19:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's also possible, under your theory, that Amaunator, rather than breaking away from Lathander, intends to eventually merge with him more fully and/or subsume him.
That is possible as well, but I guess I'm setting this up for a "partial victory" for Amaunator, if he manages to split off and become a god again without fully regaining his former glory. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 03:28:48
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
You know, I had some ideas about Myrkul actually wanting to get his hands on the Tablets of Fate, not to become more powerful, but to escape his fate as the dusk lord. Perhaps Myrkul is the one that taught Amaunator how to sequester a fragment of his personality in an artifact, a technique he himself used with the Crown of Horns.
Perhaps Myrkul actually fulfilled his purpose as the dusk lord by helping the "sun" go down in facilitating Amaunator's plan, and without realizing it, hastened his own demise by fulfiling his purpose in doing this.
Thanks for throwing that one in there . . . I'll have to think on this some more.
Very possible and what you wrote seems very cool. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 03:47:20
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A while ago I had thought of a plot hook for my campaign, if it ever came up, that a follower of Amaunator (back when they mentioned the Sun Masters in LEOF) with the backing of Lathander's church would do something that was suppose to unlock something important to Amaunator and, by extention in his way of thinking, Lathander's destiny, but this event would cause major harm, and ironically, the PCs would be warned off by an NPC with the Crown of Horns, as Myrkul would be able to sense this particular calamity, and it would please him to thwart Lathander and Amaunator while "aiding" the side of "good."
Never fully fleshed this one out, but now with some of the more recent hooks, I might have to rethink this particular campaign hook and see if I could use this . . . |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 04:32:06
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Good stuff guys, good stuff. I can use this in my own campaign even.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 05:05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I'd also involve Myrkul in this somehow because of Myrkul's dusk aspect and he was/is the third member of the triple deity concept.
You know, I had some ideas about Myrkul actually wanting to get his hands on the Tablets of Fate, not to become more powerful, but to escape his fate as the dusk lord. Perhaps Myrkul is the one that taught Amaunator how to sequester a fragment of his personality in an artifact, a technique he himself used with the Crown of Horns.
Perhaps Myrkul actually fulfilled his purpose as the dusk lord by helping the "sun" go down in facilitating Amaunator's plan, and without realizing it, hastened his own demise by fulfiling his purpose in doing this.
Thanks for throwing that one in there . . . I'll have to think on this some more.
As I recall, Eric provided some rather unique tidbits and speculations on this himself over at WotC about a year and half ago during one of the weekly "Dawn Cataclysm" threads to pop up over there.
Kuje has likely compiled those replies into his files...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 05:16:36
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| I did. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Ateth Istarlin
Seeker
United Kingdom
80 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 10:43:36
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| Since a new dawn Crusade would probably merge the Faerunian & Mulhorandi pantheons - has anyone got any ideas about what will happen with Horus-Re (since he's a greater power & god of the sun)? |
The more I read about 4FR, the more depressed I am.
Politician - An elected official who tries to be all things to all people, while always looking out for his/her own interests first. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 14:32:47
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if Amaunator either get a total or a partial victory (following KJER's chain of toughts) then he would likely end up merged with Amaunator doing the clash with Amaunator gaining the upper hand.
if Lathander manages to pull it off then Horus-Re would consume the Amaunator heretics in Lathandite church making it somewhat a stalemate ... and might even after some time starting to get prayed to more as Amaunator everywhere else than Mulhorand ... which would basicly become a partial win for Amaunator |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 16:47:58
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| Kuje or Sage, can one of you provide a link to that lore? I didn't see it in the compiled files on Kuje's site, and I'm not wanting to wade thru everything on the WotC forums, if I can avoid it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 17:34:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Kuje or Sage, can one of you provide a link to that lore? I didn't see it in the compiled files on Kuje's site, and I'm not wanting to wade thru everything on the WotC forums, if I can avoid it.
Okay, I take that back, I guess I didn't snag them. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 23:07:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Kuje or Sage, can one of you provide a link to that lore? I didn't see it in the compiled files on Kuje's site, and I'm not wanting to wade thru everything on the WotC forums, if I can avoid it.
Okay, I take that back, I guess I didn't snag them. :)
I'll have to take a look through my own files then.
I'll edit this post when I've found them. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2006 : 01:39:57
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| Oh yeah, don't forget that that triple deity is one of the heretic versions in Power of Faerun for Lathander/Amaunator/Jergal/Myrkul. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Is Lathander begining his new Dawn Crusade?
