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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 01:27:22
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Im curious to what you people use when your realms are at war. Do you decide as the battle goes along, or do you use some kind of published system, or homemade rules?
Personally, for the big battles I use a custom fitted form of the warhammer fantacy battle rules.
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Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 01:36:07
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I use the "Heroes of Battle" book, it's streamlined and efficient for 3.5 mass combat. I've only had to use it once, but it was a good session, not bogged down much at all...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/860900000 |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 03:27:00
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I usually wing it with most of the battle's details focusing mostly on the player's, the storyline, and making spectacular scenes that shock the players. Sometimes the player's side loses too. That's just how it goes sometimes.  Have fun with it. If the player's help plan the battle strategy that should change the outcome somehow. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 07:34:43
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| Not certain about how I will resolve mass combat, yet, I have "Cry Havoc" but I haven't gone through it yet. Plus there is always the old mass combat system found in the Rules Cyclopedia |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 23:08:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Haman
I use the "Heroes of Battle" book, it's streamlined and efficient for 3.5 mass combat. I've only had to use it once, but it was a good session, not bogged down much at all...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/860900000
WOA! that's a nice one, one more book I cant live without!! (raising the buget for FR this month and next!) I will try that, my way takes a entire session. |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 14:36:42
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Large battles are tricky but I cannot control even 10 strong npcs alltogether. I need to call some friend and make them control the npc but it s not working always.
does "Heroes of Battle" work for smaller combast? |
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 14:37:13
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Large battles are tricky but I cannot control even 10 strong npcs alltogether. I need to call some friend and make them control the npc but it s not working always.
does "Heroes of Battle" work for smaller combast? |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 14:39:39
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the closest thing to mass combat (using mass combat rules) I have ever used is the ship-to-ship combat in Spelljammer..
I never really liked mass combat rules, I feel it takes away from the RPG and makes it more of a table-top game, like warhammer...any "mass" battle we did the players were still players, the war around them was determined by the DM's descretion |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 15:27:17
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Heroes of Battle deals more with the battlefield as dungeon for the party, I'm not even sure there is a real mass combat system in it.
The old D&D rules cyclopedia and the "green box" (I think).
Running 10 NPCs in a battle gives you trouble...you might wanna consider not doing wars, aside from maybe pivotal battles, in which case you should check out Heroes of Battle |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 15:39:49
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yeah sure, thats an option however I don't like to restrict how the story goes because of my lack of knowledge or ability.
if there is a way to close the gap, i would like to learn that at least to make the battles a little bit realistic and let the fortune of the dice take its course. ýf that was not my concern ý would easily just tell the players what s happening around them just using my will and imagination. for me any battle that includes many npcs are pivotal since it would be a life and death situation and the outcome be interesting  . |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 15:45:10
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| Oh...and playing 10 NPCs is so easy once you start using minis. I even ran a big-ass battle with 70 or so opponents, the thing took hours but still. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 18:51:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Oh...and playing 10 NPCs is so easy once you start using minis. I even ran a big-ass battle with 70 or so opponents, the thing took hours but still.
haa, the minis. well ý dont have any. but sometimes ý use the warhammer stuff if my frieds bring. it is sure easier than drawing everything on papers. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 19:02:11
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I have a bunch of minis I wanna trade off...should anything remain un-traded, I could sell the stuff to you, provided you pay for s/h  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 20:13:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Heroes of Battle deals more with the battlefield as dungeon for the party, I'm not even sure there is a real mass combat system in it.
The old D&D rules cyclopedia and the "green box" (I think).
Running 10 NPCs in a battle gives you trouble...you might wanna consider not doing wars, aside from maybe pivotal battles, in which case you should check out Heroes of Battle
Ah you mean d&d companion(green one), yes but its kinda too simple, but it is the quickest to resolve large scale battle. |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 21:06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I have a bunch of minis I wanna trade off...should anything remain un-traded, I could sell the stuff to you, provided you pay for s/h
ý would be interested in cool or gruesome looking little fellows. heeh showing players off with that kind of stuff and giving them small clowns would be entertaining  .
however if thats a serious trade propasal my location would be a problem. so thanks anyway. but any advertisement is good right? |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 22:58:11
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| Turkey shouldn't be that much of a problem, I'd say...or I could ask one of my Turkish acquaintances to drop it off at a post office in Turkey when they go there next time |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 23:39:12
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| ohh, that s good to hear. if you have pictures ý may consider buying. no promises though, ý a little picky you know. details of a possible trade can be discussed later on, right . |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 00:43:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Neonai
Large battles are tricky but I cannot control even 10 strong npcs alltogether. I need to call some friend and make them control the npc but it s not working always.
does "Heroes of Battle" work for smaller combast?
Do the PCs have followers or mercenaries? Would they have any specific command resposabilities in the battle ,or would they constitute an elite strike force to counteract tough monsters on the other side? If it is the latter, you are basically running a pc vrs monster fight in the midst of a larger battle. In that case there is no real mandate to run the surrounding battle mechanically. In effect it becomes a very dramatic life and death back drop to PCs onstage action. You can simply make it part of the dramatic narrative of the game.
On the other hand, if your PCs have thier own followers that they have invested a lot of time and gold into, your task changes dramaticly. No one likes to be told by the DM that thier followers forces (who may be composed heavily of the PCs friend family and countrymen) arbitrarily take 10 % fatalities. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 09:33:01
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sometimes pcs having lots of henchmen happens. once they had a small ship a yacht ý presume and needed 10 sailors for them to sail the ship. ýf they let the original sailors whom would have no on any difficult combat ý could just easily narrated the outcome. but they chose to recruit ex pirates and experienced veterans of wars so as you said ý couldn't just tell them their employees died, they would like to see how since they invested lots of gold and work.
but in my games ý like to use npc adventuring parties in those cases if the opponents are high level ý start to have difficulties. but thinking about it no mass combat system would be helpful, just need more practice. |
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David E
Seeker
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 09:57:36
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| If you want to actually run mass combat between an army or other large-sized groups, I think Cry Havoc is the way to go - it presents combat between units of combatants in a ruleset that is almost identical to the 3.5, in which entire units are treated as individual NPCs , which makes combat very easy to run. Keep in mind that this is gross simplification of the rules in the book, but it should give you an idea how Cry Havoc works. |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 07:50:17
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| I have followed my fellow gamers advice and bought Cry havoc and heroes of battle. All set now =) cry havoc is more suited though. At least in my humble opinion. |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 05:47:33
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| Anyone here tried the Mass Combat system from the Miniatures Handbook? I read it over a few years ago, but never got to fully develop a campaign that was so military as to require the use of it... (my current campaign started out as a military campaign, but the heroes quickly bugged off to more glamorous and glittering gold-filled monster holes!) |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 07:28:41
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| No not from miniatures, but the two mentioned books are good for char's in the military campaign, and I belive that dragon magazine brought an article on military campaigns some years ago, based on the roman system. ( the mumber of the magazine escapes me now, but I will post the number here when I found it in my collection). |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 10:20:32
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I only skimmed Cry Havoc so far, but from what I've read so far the entire book deals with everything concerning war.
One aspect intrigued me, however. If two opposing forces in the Realms worship the same god, for example Lathander, would both sides' clerics be granted spells or would Lathander pick sides? In Cry Havoc one of the circumstances says that if both sides worship the same deity one will not receive spells.
Considering that Realms deities receive their power from worship, wouldn't it be prudent to either grant both sides spells, or deny 'em to both?
I haven't read Power of Faerûn thoroughly yet, but what happens if in such a war one of the sides faithful to Lathander loses? If they are religious fanatics, would they not lose faith in Lathander and thus decrease his power, slightly?
Convoluted thoughts in the morning... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 10:30:42
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| Ah that is a good question indeed! It could be two diffrent paths in the worship of the god(like ortodox and non-ortodox and so)forth), but still, I agree the best course would be to grant/deny them both. And who could know how godly entities judges, cant be determinded by mortals. =) |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 10:53:34
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| Still...if I was a faithful and my side would lose in a war, would I not be pissed off at my god and maybe deny his religion, hence weakening his power? |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 11:03:35
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| Yeah, maybe but that depends on alot of things. Think on it, if it were so would there be any worshippers of Bane left at all(if one goes by the books) =D |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 01:37:40
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Their are always those gods that cause discord by supplying the spells in another god's name in the Realms.
EvilKnight |
Danali Index |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 08:04:09
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| Yes indeed, intrigue galore, even with the gods! ;) |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2006 : 11:44:57
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Where does one find "Cry Havoc"?
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I only skimmed Cry Havoc so far, but from what I've read so far the entire book deals with everything concerning war.
One aspect intrigued me, however. If two opposing forces in the Realms worship the same god, for example Lathander, would both sides' clerics be granted spells or would Lathander pick sides? In Cry Havoc one of the circumstances says that if both sides worship the same deity one will not receive spells.
Considering that Realms deities receive their power from worship, wouldn't it be prudent to either grant both sides spells, or deny 'em to both?
I haven't read Power of Faerûn thoroughly yet, but what happens if in such a war one of the sides faithful to Lathander loses? If they are religious fanatics, would they not lose faith in Lathander and thus decrease his power, slightly?
Convoluted thoughts in the morning...
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"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Topic |
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Mass combat system.
