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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Sep 2006 : 23:51:14
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Hey, I know of the history of Zhengyi raising up the Castle Perilous in Vaasa and taking on Damara, etc.... He fell, however, essences of him still remain and try to reform him, etc....
What I'm wondering is what is his history PRIOR to coming to Vaasa... prior to becoming a lich... I know he was a red wizard of Thay. I'm assuming he was one of the renegades like Velsharoon. What else is there out there? I've downloaded the bloodstone modules and they really don't say too much.
Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2006 : 23:53:57
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| Only other spot I could suggest is the Bloodstone sourcebook that RAS wrote after the Bloodstone modules ended...... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2006 : 01:45:40
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As I recall, the 1e and 2e FR boxed sets have a few scattered tidbits, but some of the 1e bits were largely re-referenced in The Bloodstone Lands sourcebook later anyway.
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Edited by - The Sage on 05 Sep 2006 01:47:55 |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2006 : 20:08:58
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i found nothing about his past in the sourcebook FR9 - The Bloodstone Lands. He just appeared with the castle in Vaasa in a calamitous event that rocked the entire region.
Maybe there is something more about him in "Promise of the Witch-King" from R.A. SAlvatore .... |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 19:11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey, I know of the history of Zhengyi raising up the Castle Perilous in Vaasa and taking on Damara, etc.... He fell, however, essences of him still remain and try to reform him, etc....
What I'm wondering is what is his history PRIOR to coming to Vaasa... prior to becoming a lich... I know he was a red wizard of Thay. I'm assuming he was one of the renegades like Velsharoon. What else is there out there? I've downloaded the bloodstone modules and they really don't say too much.
Where does it say he was a Red Wizard? I havn't read The Bloodstone Lands in a long time...
considering how he delt with Orcus I would imagine more he eithor was or trained Nar Demon-binding |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 22:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
Where does it say he was a Red Wizard? I havn't read The Bloodstone Lands in a long time...
i have only knowledge about the Zhengyi stats block in the adventure module H4 The Throne of Bloodstone as source. He was/is a Red wizard of Thay and attained lichdoom four centuries ago.
well ... i know nothing about how he took control over the castle or if he even build it (with the help of Orcus  )
maybe he found somewhere lore about narfelli demonbinders and took some levels in this class. I think some levels in this PrC will fit him pretty well. He must have done something in this 400 years ...
any suggestions?
Actually i am preparing an adventure in the Narfell region and was wondering what kind of guy he was/is ... just in case my players stumble over him or his achievements/doings 
there is no way out .... i should take this "promise of the witch-king" from my bookshelf and read it. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 20:43:39
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hmm... demi-lich? sounds interesting.
Let me see... About 400 years ago ... referring to FR9 the Castle appeared in 1137FR (1347DR) and Zhengyi defeat was 1149FR (1359DR). So he took the steps toward lichdoom around the year 959DR. What happened in this century around the Priador? 922 Thay became independent from Mulhorand after a great battle, and 937DR the Red Wizards made the first recorded assault on Rashemen. Anything else? Maybe Zhengyi was involved and was one of those Red Wizards. What happened to him in the following centuries? I suspect this will remain a mistery. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 17:34:46
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Nah, he's only been dead "nearly 4 centuries" He shouldn't be a demi-lich after such a short time. Demi-liches should be millenia spanning creations. So, as Dewaint said, he died some time just following the takeover of Thay. Of course, this does not mean that he hadn't been alive a lot longer and extending his life by other means (soul transference, anti-aging spells, etc...). It is also noted that he served Orcus even in life.
Orcus most prominent recorded presence in the realms was with the Nars. The Nars fell when their war with Raumathar caused them to fall (well, it involved the Nars summoning Eltab, but they'd blame Raumathar). Therefore, I can see Orcus wanting to get a little revenge and having him order Zhengyi into Rashemen in 934-937 DR. Hmmm, even moreso, maybe Orcus understands the link between Eltab and Hadryllis, the sword wielded by the Rashemi hero Yvengi, and he was sending Zhengyi in to try and find the blade. However, he couldn't have been one who died in that raid, for he didn't turn to lichdom until after 959 (though, being that in the last 400 years Thay has invaded Rashemen 20 more times, he may have been involved in later raids). Thank you, Dewaint, I had not put any of that piece together till you laid it out.
I'm guessing this brings me to another question. Outside of the realms that Narfell touched, is there anywhere else that had had a strong Orcus presence in the last 13 centuries? Nowhere is coming to mind, but I know there are numerous "battlegrounds of the dead" about.... of course, most would be attributable to Myrkul and/or other gods like Kiaransalee.
Finally, while modern red wizards are primarily Mulan with the occasional Rashemi, there is nothing that says this isn't a result of the falling out that formed the Zulkirs. After all, it was nearly a 150 years later that the Zulkirship became firmly entrenched. That's seven generations of Mulan wizards breeding, as opposed to some of the original red wizards who had already embraced undeath and therefore lacked the ability to procreate easily. The original red wizards may have been much more varied in their origins. I mention this because as I look back.... there is nothing that says that Zhengyi was even human? I daresay, it would very much make sense if he were a half-fiend from Orcus' own loins (thus the favoritism).
This opens up another doorway, and this would be where I might veer a bit away from canon lore (but it would help explain Zhengyi's power), but perhaps Zhengyi wasn't just a wizard. Perhaps he also was a priest of Orcus. It would add even more believability to why he basically was leading the church of Orcus (and being a powerful priest, he was a center for Orcus' worship). I can see Zhengyi being a "true necromancer" from Libris Mortis, combined with Mystic Theurge for 5 more levels to be a 20th lvl caster in both arcane and divine sides. Finally, since he was a red wizard... red wizard 5th. That puts him at 3rd wiz/3rd cleric/ 14th true necro / 5th lvl mystic theurge / 5th red wizard. That makes him a 30th lvl character, and Throne of bloodstone puts him at 30th lvl. Of course, the half-fiend piece would raise his effective character level a little more (ECL 34)
Now, why is he called the "Witch-King"? I understand why both Sylune and the Simbul are referred to as "witches", after all both were taught by the Rashemi witches at some point. Could it be that Zhengyi doesn't have Nar blood, but rather maybe he was born of the union of Orcus and a Durthan witch? Perhaps this Durthan was a former Hathran, and although she had had to give up her circle magic, she understood enough to teach her son Zhengyi the basis behind it. Over the centuries, perhaps it was Zhengyi that determined a new way to perform circle magic through the use of magical tattoos as a focus. If this is the case, you'll want to raise the red wizard level by at least 2 (in which case, why not finish out the class and be 10th lvl and just drop the mystic theurge). In this instance, he'd be 3rd wiz/ 3rd cleric of Orcus / 14th true necro / 10th red wizard. This concept would even more cement his hatred of the Rashemi (i.e. his mother was a Durthan who was cast out by her fellow Hathrans).
Anything else come to mind?
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 21:12:41
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While its true that going from Lich to Demi-Lich is something that typically takes a LONG time, Zhengyi was the favored of a Lord of Undead so with some prodding from his master, the change could occur much faster.
On the other hand, there are alot of Liches that should be Demi-Liches going by the time span example too. Larloch for one. |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 22:32:36
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Well met sleyvas
Eventually other demonlords appeared on the Realms ( i.e. Graz'zt, Eltab), but as far as i know only the Bloodstone series and old Narfell had strong connections to Orcus.
Let us take the speculations a bit further ...like any other demonlord Orcus and Eltab don't like each other wery much, so Orcus revealed the secret to binding Eltab to his nartfelli minions to take him out of the way. But with the fall of old Narfell Orcus lost his grasp on this material plane. Even more badly for him Eltab's sphere of influence grew. He was imprisioned many times, but each time there was someone who released him shortly (for demons) thereafter (see CoR p131-132). Orcus had to take precautions ... so ... here we go ... say hello to Zhengyi
If we take this course of history, it should be reasonable to think of Zhengyi as half-fiend maybe an offspring of Orcus himself (even Eltab had one).
I have no idea where the title Witch-king came from. Is it a selfstyled one? Was it givem to him by someone else? if he came originally from a liaison between Orcus and a Durthan why should he hold this (or Rashemen) in honor? Maybe there a some clues in "Promise of the Witch-King" ... 
With your assumptions (i will give him some different levels, but basically i like your suggestion) i have now a distinct picture of him.
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Edited by - Dewaint on 10 Sep 2006 22:37:45 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 01:46:32
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>>Let us take the speculations a bit further ...like any other demonlord Orcus and Eltab >>don't like each other wery much, so Orcus revealed the secret to binding Eltab to his >>nartfelli minions to take him out of the way. But with the fall of old Narfell Orcus lost >>his grasp on this material plane. Even more badly for him Eltab's sphere of influence grew. >>He was imprisioned many times, but each time there was someone who released him shortly
>>(for demons) thereafter (see CoR p131-132). Orcus had to take precautions ... so ... here >>we go ... say hello to Zhengyi If we take this course of history, it should be reasonable >>to think of Zhengyi as half-fiend maybe an offspring of Orcus himself (even Eltab had one).
Yeah, I'm really liking this idea. That would make perfect sense that Orcus revealed how to entrap Eltab, but maybe the Nars messed it up somehow. It also makes sense that he may have had several Torilian offspring, though Zhengyi is the only one to attain extremes of power.
>>I have no idea where the title Witch-king came from. Is it a selfstyled one? Was it givem >>to him by someone else? if he came originally from a liaison between Orcus and a Durthan >>why should he hold this (or Rashemen) in honor?
True, I don't see him favoring the title. I see it more something he's called (almost a slur), but then he notices the title seems to bring fear... and fear is power. That being said, I'm not strongly tied to this idea of the Durthan (though I do like the part where this is where the knowledge of circle magic came in).
>>With your assumptions (i will give him some different levels, but basically i like your >>suggestion) i have now a distinct picture of him.
Yeah, when I started this thread, I really didn't think it would get anywhere. I really like where this has gone. I still feel there's more history to him though. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 21:35:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Dewaint
Maybe there a some clues in "Promise of the Witch-King" ...
I didn't catch any when I read it.
what a pitty...  anyway ... i just started to read it yesterday
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
True, I don't see him favoring the title. I see it more something he's called (almost a slur), but then he notices the title seems to bring fear... and fear is power. That being said, I'm not strongly tied to this idea of the Durthan (though I do like the part where this is where the knowledge of circle magic came in).
i will try to find some other reasons for his title.
i like the idea that he first though of this title as an annoyance. possibly there was a cabal of circle magic user(as far as i know circle magic is widely known to be practiced in Thay and Rashemen, but it is not restricted to this regions) who tried to summon someone to fulfill some obscure prophecy. So Orcus got his offspring and Zhegyi his title ... followed by strange people who want some accomplished task from him (o.k. this could be a little bit to silly  )
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I still feel there's more history to him though.
let me guess .... about 400 years ? 
but i think we are now going to far in speculations ... |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 19:36:29
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Commenting on Zhengyi's title:
The only other reference to a Witch-Something are the Witch Lords of Wyverwater, in Cormyr. Maybe he had something to do with them? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 13:15:53
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Well, there's the Witch Queen of Aglarond, and the Witches of Rashemen as well.  |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 23:44:21
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yes, i also think that there is no connection. Someone asked Ed about the Witch-Lords some time ago, but not much came around (NDA's ... NDA's... ) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 01:45:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dewaint
yes, i also think that there is no connection. Someone asked Ed about the Witch-Lords some time ago, but not much came around (NDA's ... NDA's... )
Yes, that's correct.
Though, Ed does mention a few tidbits (sharing what he can) in his '05 replies.
And if you've read Cormyr: A Novel, then you've certainly learned the tidbits shared within that novel.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 18:36:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Well, there's the Witch Queen of Aglarond, and the Witches of Rashemen as well.
True. But the Witches of Rashemen are not what I meant I chose my words poorly... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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History of Zhengyi PRIOR to Vaasa
