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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 03:29:54
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Are there any established "evil" earth cults in the Realms? I know you could use Ogremoch in the Realms, but wanted to know if there was a specific deity or entity that fits this role. I know Ghaunadaur kind of fits, but he is elemental in the "whole shebang" sense as well as being mainly associated with slimes and such.
Thanks all.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 03:46:33
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Are there any established "evil" earth cults in the Realms? I know you could use Ogremoch in the Realms, but wanted to know if there was a specific deity or entity that fits this role. I know Ghaunadaur kind of fits, but he is elemental in the "whole shebang" sense as well as being mainly associated with slimes and such.
Thanks all.
You could make a case for Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud. (I may be mixing and matching names and titles here.) See F&P (the Darkhouse) and C&D WE.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 03:51:34
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| Oh, wow, forgot about that reference . . . thanks Eric. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 03:58:42
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Grumbar.....
He allowed LE and NE divine casters and all alignments for lay followers in 1e and 2e's material. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 04:14:20
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Urogalan.
While he didn't specifically allow for evil-aligned divine casters in 2e (he does in 3e however), he does allow for lay worshippers of all alignments.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 05:21:13
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I dunno... The idea seems kinda silly, to me. "Feel the dread power of this rock!"  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 06:25:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno... The idea seems kinda silly, to me. "Feel the dread power of this rock!"
Tell that to the people that have to deal with landslides. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 06:58:21
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Or Earthquakes.
One of my favorite religion-ideas is a CE church of dungeons, greed, caverns, earthquakes, insanity, paranoia, and riches. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 15:14:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno... The idea seems kinda silly, to me. "Feel the dread power of this rock!"
Tell that to the people that have to deal with landslides. :)
Yeah, but that's a natural occurence, not something evil. Seeing natural aspects of the world as evil doesn't work for me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 16:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno... The idea seems kinda silly, to me. "Feel the dread power of this rock!"
Tell that to the people that have to deal with landslides. :)
Yeah, but that's a natural occurence, not something evil. Seeing natural aspects of the world as evil doesn't work for me.
Tell that to the sailors that get smacked by Umberlee's waterworks or Talos's lightening or any of the other natural effects that the evil deities rule over. Hells, even Auril's winter.
Now on the other side, since I do agree with you, I've never understood why some of the natural processes of the world had evil deities that held those processes. It always confused me why the sea deity, the lightening deity, the winter deity, etc, are evil. To me, the deities that rule those processes should be neutral. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 30 Jul 2006 16:58:37 |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 18:42:39
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Fear of the elements and the people that have or say they have control over them will whip a lot of commoners into line any day.  Who is Ogremoch by the way? Or Borem?  I am curious...  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 19:29:46
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Well, in a world where the gods hold the positions they do in the realms, is there such a thing as a natural occurrence? Are not all the elements of the world we deem as natural tied to the gods and their invoking and hindering happenings? A landslide or earthquake is tied to Talos, good harvests and bad harvests to Chaunthea, calm sea and storms to Umberlee, the guiding sight of the moon to Selune. And if it can not be explained, would not Beshaba or Tymora get the credit?
As to the alignment of the gods, the gods that manifests as harmful and destructive powers are logically seen as evil. I find it more strange that Tempus is not seen as evil. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 22:05:06
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quote:
Yeah, but that's a natural occurence, not something evil. Seeing natural aspects of the world as evil doesn't work for me.
What Kuje said!
In a world where science and technology are scarce, these things AREN'T really "natural" - they are strange, mysterious forces that only the most learned and powerful magic users comprehend and control.. A storm that destroys a farmer's village is every bit as destructive and evil as someone stealing his chickens or murdering his wife. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 22:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, in a world where the gods hold the positions they do in the realms, is there such a thing as a natural occurrence?
I think that may be putting the cart before the horse, though, for the purposes of this discussion. But if natural occurences shouldn't be seen as "evil", there's also no real reason to think of things like spring, fertility, childbirth, and growth as inherently "good", either, even if it's easily to see them as good from our particular vantage point.
As for the deities, I just see it as a matter of giving individual deities a certain personality and flavor. The gods of "negative" things like winter, death, and natural destruction NEED not be evil for this setting, but they are for the sake of having some variety, and giving the gods a sense of personality (IMO). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 30 Jul 2006 22:41:19 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2006 : 23:20:33
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What Rino said.
NOTHING is inherently good or evil, as far as portfolios go. It's just a matter of how a deity chooses to use them, and how the populace tends to view them. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 00:49:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Fear of the elements and the people that have or say they have control over them will whip a lot of commoners into line any day. Who is Ogremoch by the way? Or Borem? I am curious...
Ogremoch is one of the "Princes of Elemental Evil" (or something like that) in Greyhawk.
Borem is originally mentioned for the first time in the old computer game, 'Pool of Radiance', in a legend about "quasi-deities" bowing before the might of Bane (read that tale if you only can). Master Boyd then suggested that Borem might have been one of the "Seven Lost Gods" who were worshipped in the area of Westgate. Borem was eventually slain by the mortals Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal in their quest for becoming deities (see Faiths and Pantheons). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 17:18:20
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| I seem to recall a NE druid of Grumbar in the Silver Marches book that offers blood to the earth. My copy of SM is 7,000 kms away else I would look it up: perhaps someone else recalls the reference? Does "blood slaker" ring a bell? |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Established "Evil" Earth Cults
