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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 14:33:15
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Sleyvas, you continue to amaze. I like the concept of looking like you are fighting while you are not in fact. This would be a great tactic for a bad guy who is caught off guard or an adventuring mage player who is caught of guard and doesn't mind that his buddies are getting rocked by the monsters. -Wandering mage looks back to his parties barbarian and theif, "One more minute guys. I need to cast some buffer spells on myself. Ouch, watch out for the dragons claws. Well, there goes the parties cleric."  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 14:37:33
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<<As to the Red Wizards of Thay and the Twisted Rune, the use of large amounts of undead with <<almost unlimited resources for more undead as the battle continues I have not experienced <<this. Theoretically you can't loose unless there are five temples of Lathander nearby. <<Although you could have wizards ready to cast that spell compedium spell that takes away a <<clerics divine powers momentarily. Devestating.
Yeah, but there are drawbacks. For instance, you can only control so many undead. If you are using a magic item to buff your ability to control more undead, said item can have dispel magic cast upon it. If you are using lesser necromancers and priests to control the undead in your army, said individuals become INSTANT targets. If you have some class feature that allows YOU to control vast hordes of undead, that just makes YOU the ultimate target. When the undead are released from control, sure some will turn to fight the living, but some just don't like being controlled and will turn against you, and others will leave the immediate enemy to assault the village 5 miles down the road.
>>Now utilizing circle magic you could upgrade your earthquake spell to a continent changing >>event. I would really like to be corrected if I am wrong in thinking this. I'm actually >>amazed with how little coordination there really is within the Red Wizards ranks. I mean >>even with each zulkir taking his own henchmen and wrecking some serious havoc that would be >>a serious problem. Does the Simbul have anything to say on this?
Yes, circle magic can be devastating on the battlefield (i.e. using a metamagic rod to widen a wail of the banshee that had been heightened to 20th level could decimate even an army of demons or giants). But that being said, circle magic is all prepared back at home, and the stories of Thay always mention it as if the circles are on the battlefield. Thus, I had prepared some feats to simulate some of this (I think they're in the candlekeep downloads, may be wrong). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 14:44:48
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>>Now the main event starts off with much casting and counter spelling as mages on both sides >>counterspell the worst of the attacks coming at their army before casting an offensive spell >>of their own.
Actually, in a war scenario, I don't see much counterspelling happening unless you have the feats or class abilities for it. The problem comes down to this.... which person do I watch in order to do my spellcraft check against? If the person is casting a spell for which I don't have the counter, I've given them the upper hand and a free round of attacks. With so many plausible spells, it just doesn't make sense unless you are a person who can counterspell with "a spell of similar level". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 15:10:38
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| Point taken. I was almost thinking from a DM or novel point of view. However you bring up a very big game mechanic problem. I thought that the high level mages would do the counterspelling for the most part. Let the low levels throw attack and buffer spells. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 15:54:59
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Which group should we try to cover next?  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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gribble_the_munchkin
Acolyte
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 11:10:19
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Well not so sure about group, but one of my old characters wrote a lengthy essay on crafty spell use. His particular favourites were spell combinations.
Try these:
Wall of force (hemisphere shape) + cloudkill. enemy remains trapped unless he can escape the bubble of force, which means spellcasting while under the effects of a cloudkill.
Prismatic sphere + reverse gravity. You go sailing harmlessly through your sphere and your enemy is slammed against the sphere. If he survives one round, he is automatically pressed against it next round too, joy!
Spehere of invulnerability with your party standing close then spam fireball at close range. Hey presto, annihilates anything outside that 10 foot sphere.
Another nice tactic is to find creative uses for low level spells. use of shrink item as an assassination spell was good. I.e. get a stone and shrink it down. stick it in your enemies food, as soon as its in hs mouth either cancel the spell or if he swallows it, wait and watch. Nasty. |
"We are sorry, you have reached an imaginary number, please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again" |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 12:20:32
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Interesting thing the mage in my group did a few months back, he had memorized Fear. When they encountered a couple of hill giants and one of them started throwing rocks, he cast Fear on him the moment he had the stone raised above his head. Well, it was actually emotion control: fear, a cleric spell but I assume the wizard spell would have the same result.
Not only did the giant run away, but before he ran his boulder thumped him good.
There are several other occassions when that wizard did things with spells that really did astonish me. Bringing the party together with a Capture Thought spell when they were 1st level and didn't know each other...
admittedly the character was a mage/priest multiclass, but nonetheless, fun stuff |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2006 : 03:34:05
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Try these:
>>Wall of force (hemisphere shape) + cloudkill. enemy remains trapped unless he can escape >>the bubble of force, which means spellcasting while under the effects of a cloudkill.
I used to use this a lot in 2nd edition, but now its more defensible. However, there's spells around that do dmg against good beings every round. Similarly, a spell that would spins say blades of force as an area effect would be nasty.
>>Prismatic sphere + reverse gravity. You go sailing harmlessly through your sphere and your >>enemy is slammed against the sphere. If he survives one round, he is automatically pressed >>against it next round too, joy!
Reverse gravity is so underused. Magnetism too. Thank you, this was a very interesting idea.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2006 : 08:56:55
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Group tactics, particularly with spellcasters, is always good, too.
Wizards are really best for control of the battle-field. Spells like Contingency, Chain Contingency, Blur, Greater Blink, Timestop, Foresight, Forcecage, Wall of Force, Reaving Dispel, etc. will tear apart any silly Sorcerer throwing fireballs, magic missiles, and chain lightnings, any day of the weak.
People overlook field control way too often. Really, Evocation is one of the least necessary of the schools of magic, if you think about it. The "must-haves" (if you are going for efficiency, at least) are Divination, Abjuration, and Transmutation. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 14:02:22
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I am an abjuration fiend.  I agree with your point Dan. People too often think kill when with a little cunning you can really pull off a fantastic victory and not destroy your opponents loot too. I am a huge fan of teamwork. Imagine the enemy (DM) thinking that you are about to lob a fireball at him constantly and yet you continually frustrate the monsters best attempts to even join the melee....and then the interrogation begins.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 15:10:57
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>>Wizards are really best for control of the battle-field. Spells like Contingency, Chain >>Contingency, Blur, Greater Blink, Timestop, Foresight, Forcecage, Wall of Force, Reaving >>Dispel, etc. will tear apart any silly Sorcerer throwing fireballs, magic missiles, and >>chain lightnings, any day of the weak.
Very much agreed, although I must admit to using the foresight spell little due to its short duration (although possibly with a contingent effect...). I'm a big fan of the abjuration school with spell droppers, spell turners, and spell trappers. A hidden spell engine can be a truly nasty trick for an arcane foe if you are able to enhance yourself and take on the enemy in melee (and a dropped Mordenkainen's disjunction is just downright mean <g>). I must admit to seeing the name reaving spell before though, but I don't recognize the book its from?
>>People overlook field control way too often. Really, Evocation is one of the least >>necessary of the schools of magic, if you think about it. The "must-haves" (if you are >>going for efficiency, at least) are Divination, Abjuration, and Transmutation.
I'll agree here too. I would be hard pressed to ever give up those three. If you are a "group" mage, then you can take out the enemy's defenses, improve your allies, and let them do the work. If you want the occasional dmg, you can hurl in some conjuration or necromantic effects (or shudders... the shadow magic version, bleh). However, you tend to lose out on a lot of magic items if you can't use evocation school effects, and you can't make a lot of said items either. I can really appreciate the power that red wizards must give up by having to give up 3 schools of magic. Granted, they can create a handful of VERY nasty effects with little chance of their opponents resisting, but they lose out on some important spell chaining effects. Sadly (at least to me), this is why my own NPC, Sleyvas of Thay, is no longer a red wizard (well, that and eldritch knight fits his modus operandi so much better). Its also why I've changed my Thay a little bit to allow for some degrees of being a "red robed wizard"..... some wizards (and people of other arcane casting classes, like the necromancers from Heroes of Horror) in my Thay are allowed to swear allegiance and given the right to wear clothing with red in it (and different shades of red imply different levels of deference). Is it canon? No, but I make myself feel better in the knowledge that the Thayans of all people would not penalize a group for magical experimentation (i.e. why punish someone for not focusing on a single school of magic, let them experiment and broaden the field of magical research.... but let them know that had they focused on a single school, they could have advanced farther within the societal ranks (publicly, though privately, some non-red wizards may be given the same deference as a Zulkir's right hand man)).
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 20:23:39
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quote:
I must admit to seeing the name reaving spell before though, but I don't recognize the book its from?
I saw it in the Spell Compendium. It's a 9th level spell that not only Dispels a target's spells, but gives their benefits to you. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 06:24:06
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| I prefer the odd one out, something that isnt familiar like in ROTA when the phaerimm created a prismatic tornado, or needle showers and the like,Magic especially arcane magic is an infinte well of possibilities. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 06:26:45
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| If going by tactics first thing is to buff up with mind blank, shield spells, greater invisibility and a fly spell, gate in a pit fiend, shapechange into a pit fiend too, and just sit back and relax. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 06:44:09
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Telamont's shield against the Chosen's silverfire. He's the only known being to have deflected silverfire.
Telamont's spell of binding cast on Mephistopheles, which drew power from the magic of the entire city.
The Simbul's transformation of herself into a magical barrier in Silverfall, which killed a number of Red Wizards.
The phaerimm's silverfire "replica" in RotA. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2011 : 05:41:28
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Szass Tam's battle against his former associates in unholy, that was quite a bit of magic.
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Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2011 : 06:00:46
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Chiming in here with some interesting bardic options, many of which would work for wizards as well. One of my favorites was having my drow bard use invisibility andhis fairy-fire ability (works with the spell version, too) both on himself, then levitate. Presto! Instant "ghost". Using mimic voice and ventriloquism together with alter self to infiltrate an enemy camp is another favorite tactic- I once used it to sneak into a camp of orcs. And once in, use stick and grease on the weapons in the enemy's armory to REALLY muck things up!
For a more combat-oriented tactic that works well against dragons, using lock-jaw in combination with levitate inside a dragon's layer allows one to attack from above while preventing the dragon from using most of its weapons against you. Combined with an opposite elemental-based spell on your weapons, and the dragon in question will soon be a suit of armor for the party's fighter! Sometimse even the appearance of a dragon's worst fear will be enough, casting illusory fire on your sword against an ice-based wyrm will make it think twice about attacking in melee. I've also used illusory fireballs via a minor illusion spell to great effect. Also, from one of my favorite non-standard d20 sources, the Nymphology book had some fun spells that had practical battlefield applications, such the spell speedy undress (great to divest those pesky tanks of their armor!) and others like movable pleasure zone and pleasurable vibration. Used together, those two spells can distract enemy spell-casters to no end, not to mention making their magic weapons hard to hold onto! Another fun one, vinegar strokes, could have one's enemy collapsing on the floor in near-insane bliss, unable to act. Yes, my bard is a bit of a perv at times- not to mention a prankster, as he has used the speedy undress spell on several occasions to embarrass the heck out of over-stuffed pompous warriors or arrogant mages- but it's so much fun! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2011 : 06:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Szass Tam's battle against his former associates in unholy, that was quite a bit of magic.
Indeed.
Rivalen's control of the kraken Ssessimith. And his magical arsenal he used up entirely in his fight against a green dragon.
Vhostym's Weave Tap and Crown of Fire. Not only horrifying in its scale of destruction, it's ingenious as well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2011 : 06:27:44
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Xar Zarath practices Thread Necromancy I see...
Personal favorite: what do you do when there is a floating platform in the sky with enemies on it where the upper half is worked stone with a hemispherical antimagic field and a bottom half that has a fly spell built in...? Transmute Rock to Mud and watch that antimagic field slide right into the fly effect |
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2011 : 08:52:56
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Still the most impressive feat of magic is proctiv's move mountain followed by a mythallar.
Not to mention Imaskar blocking out the gods. Many people have stated it but still, we can only imagine the magic involved to god block divine powers |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2011 : 08:08:25
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Blocking gods is quite a feat of magic, i mean besides stealing all those people from other worlds.
I love phaerimm prismatic tornado, one of the best i think.
Can anyone try to create the spell, would be useful in a campaign |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2011 : 00:18:46
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I just wonder what level the Imaskari spell was... I would deem it 12 at least... maybe 13.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2011 : 03:36:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Which would make the circle dance even higher, most likely. Blocking gods from one region is pretty potent magic, but I'd say that completely reshaping the continent is even more so!
Siphoning off a goddess's divine essence with nothing except your pure genius and considerable power is still a better feat. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2011 : 04:13:14
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| Ugh, I get so sick of all the Karsus-love, sometimes. He was an idiot. No one in his right mind tries to steal the power of a god. It NEVER ends well..... Then again, MOST really high-powered magic doesn't end well. This is why some magic should be strictly forbidden to mortals. I's like letting little kids play with daddy's arquebus- it should never happen, because they just don't understand what they've got in their hands. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2011 : 04:25:18
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No idiot could have devised that spell. He was petulant and overly confident because he happened to possess great magical power, and grew up getting used to getting what he wanted. [Now, must we blame his parents/guardians for spoiling him too much?] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2011 : 04:33:41
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| By idiot, I don't mean intellectually inferior. I mean simply lacking in common sense and good judgment. THOSE he seems not to have had much of. As my hubby likes to say, there is BOOK smart, and there is Street smart (read- wisdom), and Karsus did not apparently have the latter. Thus, an idiot. Or, to put it as Ian Malcome in Jurassic Park, "he was so focused on whether or not he COULD, he never bothered to think about whether he SHOULD." Okay, not a perfect quote, but you get the idea! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2011 : 04:44:48
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He did focus both on thinking he could and should. However, he didn't have the [magical] foresight to see its consequences. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2011 : 05:18:00
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| Actually considering that he was so powerful, he simply thought that nothing could go wrong, maybe he did not foresee that mystryl would retaliate |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Magic Theory 101
