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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Nov 2014 : 02:09:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I have to say, if there's one bit of Realmslore I've ever regretting writing, it would be a close match between the ettin who put on a helm of opposite alignment and became a druid (yes, that was my first published Realmslore) and the Starym Moonblade.
--Eric
The Ettin Druid sounds like an awesome thing.
Yeah now I'm dying to know what that was in. Though I'm also interested in moonblades.... /staysontopic |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2014 : 02:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I have to say, if there's one bit of Realmslore I've ever regretting writing, it would be a close match between the ettin who put on a helm of opposite alignment and became a druid (yes, that was my first published Realmslore) and the Starym Moonblade.
--Eric
The Ettin Druid sounds like an awesome thing.
Yeah now I'm dying to know what that was in. Though I'm also interested in moonblades.... /staysontopic
Nicknack Twoheads. Polyhedron #60.
Yes, the name is almost as bad as the concept.
--Eric
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
Edited by - ericlboyd on 07 Nov 2014 11:23:11 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2014 : 12:49:36
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Yeah, my first bit of Realmslore (my one Candlekeep article) had some atrocious naming-conventions going on. 
We were all 'newbs' at one time, Eric. Sometimes our enthusiasm clouds our common sense.
On the other hand, I know someone who comes up with the worst names ever... and is a best-selling author. Maybe ol' Nicknack needs his own trilogy. 
As for the Moonblades - like so many other (long-running) things in FR, I find them a bit... confusing. However, I am a HUGE fan of ever-evolving, sentient magical items. 3e had Weapons of Legacy, and I really love that whole concept, and would apply it to more then just weaponry. 'Herirloom' items - such as Moonblades - would 'absorb' (for lack of a better word) certain characteristics from their users over time, and be altered by that. In fact, I would hazard to guess that is how 99% of all non-divine artifacts are created.
I also happen to think its fits perfectly with some of FRs 'deeper lore' - that magic = 'life'. So basically, when you attach magic to anything, you've attached the 'spark of life' to it, and circumstances permitting, that spark can grow. In that way, Elaine's original intent for the blades is still there, and many of them may still be conforming to only that intent (or whatever else she had in mind), but some of them, through their particular usage and handlers (and being around strong magic) may have evolved in new directions. Having magical items (or even people) becoming far more then their creators intended is actual a pretty good trope. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Nov 2014 12:51:39 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2014 : 14:57:03
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I do like that idea -- of some moonblades developing their own new purpose.
While we don't know what their continued purpose, past the royal selection, would have been, I am inclined to think that it would have remained something that benefitted elves. Perhaps their purpose would have become selecting elven champions, or creating/protecting new elven strongholds...
Canon doesn't (officially) reflect it, but I think it would be interesting if moonblades became somewhat less selective -- or at least, not as painful on rejection -- once the royal family was selected. That could, in fact, explain away some of the later discrepancies caused by writers/designers not paying attention to prior lore (one short story in particular comes to mind). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2014 : 14:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I do like that idea -- of some moonblades developing their own new purpose.
While we don't know what their continued purpose, past the royal selection, would have been, I am inclined to think that it would have remained something that benefitted elves. Perhaps their purpose would have become selecting elven champions, or creating/protecting new elven strongholds...
Why would they have any? For all the conceit of "elven foresight", there aren't much of it: elves consistently fail to think in terms of "after this point", rather than "more of the same indefinitely"... and those moonblades gradually turning into unusable deathtraps for the overconfident are a good example of this. As well as the Dracorage mythal.
Then again, the selected royal line actually is not somehow guaranteed to survive forever, so this part is not even that over the top.
Plot-wise, it can be no less interesting to have loads and loads of magic items made for very peculiar tasks someone once thought important, their purpose long forgotten or obsolete - whether fulfilled or failed - continuing no matter what, just like that golem told to "patch the wall" and dropping stones into a chasm... while mortals' wishful thinking slowly wraps them in mythology and mystique, ascribes them higher purpose, etc.
And aren't elves prone to wishful thinking even more than humans are, especially when there's perceived glorification of themselves or their ancestors?.. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2014 : 14:38:25
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The moonblades were created, with the help of the Seldarine, for a purpose that literally spanned millennia. It's not unreasonable to assume that someone looking that far ahead would have other plans.
As I said, though, it's not backed up by published canon. On the other hand, we have three basic factoids that can be used to support this idea:
Elaine, the creator of the moonblades, said there was another purpose.
Moonblades did not stop functioning or becoming easier to wield, even though Evermeet had a ruler. This suggests -- but again, does not prove -- a continued function. Their goal had been met, but the blades active at that time remained active.
A dormant moonblade could be reawakened. We see this with Elaith's moonblade. This is, again, hardly conclusive, but why was that functionality there if the family line had already been judged?
It is my thinking, though, that this continued function wasn't something specific like picking a royal family. I think it would have been something broader in scope, because each blade developed differently, and because so many had gone dormant by them -- if it was a specific goal, I'd've expected more blades to remain active. It is this thinking that leads me to broader goals like defending or establishing new elven strongholds or becoming a sort of champion for elfkind, the way Arilyn is with the green elves of Tethyr. Of course, another idea could be sort of a drawing together of elven races -- again, looking at Arilyn (and Elaith), we have moon elves working with and defending green elves. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Nov 2014 14:44:14 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2014 : 14:38:42
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Not really related t the thread, but inspired by it.
I have been running a (5e) game for my boys now, in a VERY loose version of The Realms, and I am having FUN. I think part of this has to do with me longer considering FR a 'serious setting'. I used to have fun running Greyhawk back in the day, with all the silliness I could throw in (and my players had fun as too!) I just don't seem to remember ever having that level of fun running The Realms before. Oh, I enjoyed it, and so did my players, but more in the way you sit back and watch an opera, with much 'solemnity and respect'. Greyhawk was never like that - it was like 'a night at a comedy club'. And thats the way I run my version of the Realms now - we have FUN. I think thats why young folks are more attracted to Golarion these days... but thats an argument for another thread.
So... Moonblades. Or rather, 'the Moon Blade'. I have an idea for an artifact - maybe a +2 sword (depends on when I introduce it) - that has a strange curse on it: it makes you bend over, drop your pants, and moon the enemy (only at the very start of combat - an 'encounter'). It will have no relation to the Elven Moonblades (and may have even been crafted just to mock them). Now, you see, my kids aren't above 'Googling' things - in this day-and-age you really can't have (official/canon) 'secrets' from your players. This is one reason why my Realms has its own history, related to, but not the same as, the canon one. So if they go look-up 'Moonblades', they will think they have found something very important, but instead it will just become a running joke.
I am not sure yet how I will handle it if they try to 'return it to the elves'. I guess it all depends on WHO they bring it to. That ought to be a hoot.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Nov 2014 14:39:31 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2014 : 17:34:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The moonblades were created, with the help of the Seldarine, for a purpose that literally spanned millennia. It's not unreasonable to assume that someone looking that far ahead would have other plans.
It's more reasonable to assume that a known modus operandi is used consistently, rather than turns on and off randomly. And we know that elves are consistently neither competent nor comfortable at thinking in terms of "after X" - to the point of acute phobia. They force themselves tochange anything very rarely, reluctantly, against the resistance of others. And the Seldarine aren't free Deus Ex Machina card, they may well be even worse.
quote:
As I said, though, it's not backed up by published canon. On the other hand, we have three basic factoids that can be used to support this idea:
Elaine, the creator of the moonblades, said there was another purpose.
Are you sure you are not reading between the lines instead of reading the lines? 
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
The moonblades were intended to be a test of rulership--a sword in the stone, as it were. They were to have a continuing purpose AFTER the selection of the royal family.
"continuing purpose" != "new purpose".
quote:
Moonblades did not stop functioning or becoming easier to wield, even though Evermeet had a ruler. This suggests -- but again, does not prove -- a continued function.
Their goal had been met, but the blades active at that time remained active.
Exactly: nothing changed. Occam's razor +2, +4 vs. needlessly contrived hypotheses whispers to me that this usually is best explained by black box consistently implementing the same function of parameters that didn't significantly change in the first place, rather than by introduction of dopplegangers inside black box while nobody looked.
And why not? If someone got selected, this doesn't really mean there can never be a need to do so again sometime later.
Also, shutting down would be a bad idea either way: it would immediately upset the balance of power.
quote:
A dormant moonblade could be reawakened. We see this with Elaith's moonblade. This is, again, hardly conclusive, but why was that functionality there if the family line had already been judged?
Not the family line, just the current heir. The next heirs may change the result. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Moonblade/Elfblades
