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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 01:04:30
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You're welcome, Mariuss.
Don't mind all of the lore-arguing we do. It's normal. ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 01:44:28
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Just rereading the Moonblade claiming ceremony in Evermeet
A few points on Moonblades
1) Ethando believed that "only Moon elves had the temperament and inclination to deal with the folk of other races". Elthando also sacrificed himself during the ceromony to become the judging part of the sword. So its not suprising that he hasnt accepted any known gold elf wielders
2) At the end of ceremony its noted that it was not impossiable that a gold elf might gain the throne only that it was unlikely (This could also be read to apply to Gold Elves claiming Moonblades)
3) "The times they are a changing" the moonblades where intended to choose a royal family for Evermeet which they have done. As they are no longer a tool for choosing the royal family its possable that the rules for claiming a Moonblade have been relaxed and that Elves of other races could claim a Moonblade. (This could explain how 2 Half elves have successfully claimed Moonblades)
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 01:57:50
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I don't know . . . not really into speculation until Elaine comes out with her last "Songs and Swords" book, and/or the Best of Elaine. I'm sure whatever she comes up with will make a lot more sense than my ramblings, and honestly, moonblades have had about 0 bearing on any of my games, thus meaning I haven't really had to deal with anything relating to my campaign.
I had one potential player say that he wanted one after seeing Xan in Baldur's Gate, and then I explained to him the downside, and it changed his mind. He never ended up playing either. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 03:03:45
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Arilyn was able to use one because hers was FUBARed and because she had a purely Elven soul, which other Half-Elves do not.
And just because there's currently a monarch of Evermeet doesn't mean there always will be; I think the Moonblades should have remained as they uwere. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 03:15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I think the Moonblades should have remained as they uwere.
I agree with this, for the most part.
The purpose of the moonblades was to select a ruling family for Evermeet. That's it. And they've accomplished that. The Moonflowers are the ruling family of Evermeet.
Let's be done with it, and move on.
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 03:20:04
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Arilyn was able to use one because hers was FUBARed and because she had a purely Elven soul, which other Half-Elves do not.
And just because there's currently a monarch of Evermeet doesn't mean there always will be; I think the Moonblades should have remained as they uwere.
Arilyn isnt the only Half Elf to successfully claim a Moonblade |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 03:39:33
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You're quite right. I hope Elaine can patch up this up again.
As far as I'm concerned, that Moonblade was never claimed, just as Myth Drannor was never reclaimed. I'm not saying it's not canon, I'm just saying that I do not take such events into consideration. It's a purely personal thing. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 12 Jul 2006 03:40:32 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 04:07:56
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Taking my idea further
The Judging Ablity of the Moonblade is the oldest enchantment so and now that the royal family has been chosen perhaps the Moonblades magical powers are starting to decay remember the Moonblades also contain the souls of all the wielders but part of the deal was that the souls would one day be released to the afterlife. So we maybe be seeing the begining of the end for the moonblades as there magical abilities fad away and the elven souls leave for the after life..... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 04:47:47
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| I look forward to seeing how Elaine handles it. I have to make sure I read up through the entire story, fast. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 03:32:49
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Man, is it just me or did Elaine Cunningham get stalked about Moonblades?
Of course, she never intended them to become every PC half-elves dream weapon (or elf)
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Nemesis Necrosis
Acolyte
Canada
1 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 00:20:09
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The making of the Moonblades:
http://www.e-reading.org.ua/chapter.php/149340/17/Cunningham_-_Evermeet__Island_of_Elves.html
At the beginning, every noble family, and some richer families, was given the chance to claim the Moonblades. That includes GOLD ELVES and MOON ELVES. The reason: to find the royal family. The point is, by the end of it, the family with the most Moonblades would become royal, and in the end, that was the Moonflower family.
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WARNING: I have read a lot of the books, but I have never played (no one wants to play with a girl, for some reason. Doesn't make any sense to me). So I know a lot about the world, not so much about playing the game. Though I have played all of the computer games. But I digress. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 00:41:22
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*sighs* Is all I can say.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 01:27:34
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| As I recall, Eliath's daughter is a gold elf- from her mother's side- so she can't claim it without some sort of intervening circumstance, which I believe Eliath tried to accomplish in the Dragon short story. The exact title escapes me ATM, but it had something about a game in it. "Game of Chance"? Something like that. Anywho, IIRC, no gold elf has ever YET claimed one (and LIVED), so I doubt it is possible. Several families even nearly went extinct trying, in "Evermeet". I'm going to guess that that means that those families mothballed their swords pretty much indefinitely, and there were some that went dormant at the ceremony itself, meaning that NONE of the members of those families were suitable. Since there were only twenty-five active blades left when the Moonflower clan took the throne, it stands to reason that no gold elf ever will claim it. Not unless (unlikely) a gold elf is born to the Moonflower family, AND is suitable to rule, AND is able to successfully claim Zaor's blade. I just don't see it ever happening. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 03:27:14
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That's not quite right. As I understand it, what EC tried to convey is that the Moonblades, in their original incarnation, were created with the purpose of discovering the royal line of Evermeet. Once that purpose was fulfilled, and the Moonflowers got the gig, existing moonblades - dormant and active - effectively became something akin to free-willed. Without the 'find the royal line' imperative, moonblades (being mysterious, semi-sentient items) can now have many and varied 'purposes' and ergo many and varied wielders. Of course, that could be totally wrong, but I think it suits the moonblade lore as it currently stands, given that we've seen a few non-moon elf wielders now.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 05:34:48
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With regard to the possible future of other moonblaes, Elaine once said:-
"When Zaor was chosen as king, there were twenty-five living moonblades. That was quite some time ago, and I doubt there are more than eight or nine in active use. Its possible that a few others retain their magic, but have become so powerful that any attempt to claim them is virtually suidical. It seems likely that these too-powerful swords will go dormant in time. Each sword that retains its powers probably has a significant role to play in the history of the People.
It is impossible for an adventurer to find a living moonblade in a treasure trove and add it to his weapon collection. Anyone who is not of the direct family line will be slain when he attempts to draw the sword."
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Also, back in September 2008, Elaine was asked about what the possible future of the moonblades would be in 4e FR. At the time, she had no idea. Elaine later added:- "If I were called upon to speculate--and what the heck, let's go for it--I'd say that all the moonblades, active and dormant, disappeared along with Evermeet."
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That's not quite right. As I understand it, what EC tried to convey is that the Moonblades, in their original incarnation, were created with the purpose of discovering the royal line of Evermeet. Once that purpose was fulfilled, and the Moonflowers got the gig, existing moonblades - dormant and active - effectively became something akin to free-willed. Without the 'find the royal line' imperative, moonblades (being mysterious, semi-sentient items) can now have many and varied 'purposes' and ergo many and varied wielders. Of course, that could be totally wrong, but I think it suits the moonblade lore as it currently stands, given that we've seen a few non-moon elf wielders now.
-- George Krashos
And Steven Schend's Blackstaff revealed that some elves had their moonblades turned into "Hopeblades."
To which, he added [back in 2006]:-
"I'd love to answer Joe's question here, but there's such a thing as leaving a door open to walk through later...
I'll at least give you this:
All of the nine hopeblades are, like the moonblades before them, long hilted broadswords that can be wielded with one or two hands, depending on the size and strength of the wielder.
The hopeblades appear, feel, and sound like a diamond-hard crystal but ring like a crystal wine goblet when they hit things.
They may or may not have runes along the blade, and they may or may not have individual powers (NDA). They all do have the ability to pierce the veil that hides Rhymanthiin from normal eyes and allow someone into the hidden city of hope.
Beyond that, I'll not say due to NDAs and not wanting to get in the way of later development by myself or others.
Steven"
...
Oh, and he also told us that the hopeblades are not sentient. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 19:08:11
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Yep and the one and only Moonblade that was able to be wielded by a Sun Elf was corrupted by the power of Moander, the Starym Moonblade.
...damaging it specifically in the part controlling the wielder selection at that.
But we still don't know for sure that any Sun Elf ever touched it.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cormanthyr says that Illitran Starym was a moon elf. Page 117. The clan was a mix of moon and sun elves.
...as well as Venali Starym. Which is where the "official" history ends and "legends pieced together"((c) Volo's Guide to All Things Magical) start, i.e. the lore on wielders becomes less than reliable.
Moreover, even if there was a report considered reliable in full-canon that "X got a Moonblade" and we knew X is a Sun elf, there still would be lingering doubt: identification in cases of less than clear-cut traits (which are expectable in descendants of a mixed House, btw) may in turn be unreliable. Remember how folk was confused as to the subrace of living, kicking and appearing in public Ashemmi? 
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Do we really need to get Elaine in here again explaining that the events in Evermeet were only in part truth
...especially after this theme was beaten to death with a stick in a wider scope, up to articles named "Trusting in Lore"? 
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Elaith, for one, was obviously a "not good" member of his family, yet the Moonblade chose his ancestors, and may choose his daughter.
I'm just pointing out, basically, that there's somewhat more of an enigma to the Moonblades than I think we've seen so far. It's fun to speculate on.
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
3) "The times they are a changing" the moonblades where intended to choose a royal family for Evermeet which they have done. As they are no longer a tool for choosing the royal family its possable that the rules for claiming a Moonblade have been relaxed and that Elves of other races could claim a Moonblade. (This could explain how 2 Half elves have successfully claimed Moonblades)
To me, this looks more like an artifact that outlived its purpose: Moonblades continue to do the same thing just like a golem sticking to the last order "repair the castle" continues to do it. Even after half of the structure tumbled into a chasm and no one except birds lives there for a thousand years.
Didn't Elaine Cunningham say something to the effect "Moonflowers were selected, the end, it's just a bunch of overpowered artifacts treated as sacred heirloom now"?
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Arilyn was able to use one because hers was FUBARed and because she had a purely Elven soul, which other Half-Elves do not.
Which is also wide open to interpretations.
My pet theory, for one, is that Hanali Celanil was annoyed by the way elves treated Amnestria, so a few years later she took what clearly was the perfect opportunity to "give 'em a little lesson". Fits both the character and the place where it happened.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 20:27:32
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Just wanted to say to TBeholder that you'll probably not get replies to most of what you posted since most of what you replied to was something that was discussed way back in 2006 and those posters don't log on here any more.
Grins, talk about thread resurrection after six years. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2012 : 21:22:45
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| 'Cept that Wooly guy |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 15:49:11
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
My pet theory, for one, is that Hanali Celanil was annoyed by the way elves treated Amnestria, so a few years later she took what clearly was the perfect opportunity to "give 'em a little lesson". Fits both the character and the place where it happened.
Makes perfect sense to me. :) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 15:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That's not quite right. As I understand it, what EC tried to convey is that the Moonblades, in their original incarnation, were created with the purpose of discovering the royal line of Evermeet. Once that purpose was fulfilled, and the Moonflowers got the gig, existing moonblades - dormant and active - effectively became something akin to free-willed. Without the 'find the royal line' imperative, moonblades (being mysterious, semi-sentient items) can now have many and varied 'purposes' and ergo many and varied wielders. Of course, that could be totally wrong, but I think it suits the moonblade lore as it currently stands, given that we've seen a few non-moon elf wielders now.
-- George Krashos
I don't agree with this, but I will readily admit that it's a reasonable interpretation of some of the twists and turns the moonblade lore has taken.
The moonblades were intended to be a test of rulership--a sword in the stone, as it were. They were to have a continuing purpose AFTER the selection of the royal family. Since I can't speculate about unpublished lores, might-have-beens, or a personal wish list, I won't go into detail. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 15:08:07
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Hmm, I wonder what the purpose is after the Moonflower coronation.
And since they are called Moonblades, maybe it has something to do with Sehanine? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 16:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I don't agree with this, but I will readily admit that it's a reasonable interpretation of some of the twists and turns the moonblade lore has taken.
The moonblades were intended to be a test of rulership--a sword in the stone, as it were. They were to have a continuing purpose AFTER the selection of the royal family. Since I can't speculate about unpublished lores, might-have-beens, or a personal wish list, I won't go into detail.
Nothing like being totally wrong!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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thebaron
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2013 : 21:17:26
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quote:
-- George Krashos
And Steven Schend's [i]Blackstaff revealed that some elves had their moonblades turned into "Hopeblades."
To which, he added [back in 2006]:-
"I'd love to answer Joe's question here, but there's such a thing as leaving a door open to walk through later...
I'll at least give you this:
All of the nine hopeblades are, like the moonblades before them, long hilted broadswords that can be wielded with one or two hands, depending on the size and strength of the wielder.
The hopeblades appear, feel, and sound like a diamond-hard crystal but ring like a crystal wine goblet when they hit things.
They may or may not have runes along the blade, and they may or may not have individual powers (NDA). They all do have the ability to pierce the veil that hides Rhymanthiin from normal eyes and allow someone into the hidden city of hope.
Beyond that, I'll not say due to NDAs and not wanting to get in the way of later development by myself or others.
Steven"
...
Oh, and he also told us that the hopeblades are not sentient.
[/quote]
Wow, I had a similar idea for the old moonblades to turn them into blades to help defend elves and their allies in my current 2e. Have not read much new FR books for later editions. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 07:00:46
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| The moonblade is obviously one of those creations of one author that has been changed again and again, by other authors and in game books as well. I imagine a super powerful moonblade from a militant family that rushes in and dies again and again :P... figure a new power added to the blade every 25 years or so - passed down to each new young foolhardy elf - makes a blade with a lot of magical powers :P. Just think of how powerful THAT weapon would be... |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2014 : 20:57:57
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| Such blade would probably be one of those blades Mrs. Cunningham cited as too powerful to be wielded, as it would be hard for an heir to master all of its powers. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2014 : 21:08:17
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I have to say, if there's one bit of Realmslore I've ever regretting writing, it would be a close match between the ettin who put on a helm of opposite alignment and became a druid (yes, that was my first published Realmslore) and the Starym Moonblade.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2014 : 22:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I have to say, if there's one bit of Realmslore I've ever regretting writing, it would be a close match between the ettin who put on a helm of opposite alignment and became a druid (yes, that was my first published Realmslore) and the Starym Moonblade.
--Eric
I'm a huge fan of moonblades, and I've a strong preference for sticking with their original intent. That said, I always liked the Starym moonblade. I liked the lore behind its corruption, and I did not feel that it detracted from existing moonblade lore. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2014 : 22:36:44
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I have to say, if there's one bit of Realmslore I've ever regretting writing, it would be a close match between the ettin who put on a helm of opposite alignment and became a druid (yes, that was my first published Realmslore) and the Starym Moonblade.
--Eric
The Ettin Druid sounds like an awesome thing. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2014 : 01:25:00
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Yeah, you suck Boyd!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Moonblade/Elfblades
