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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 11:16:27
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I heard that drow due to the windwalker power can now travel to the surface without losing their power anymore. But what effect does this have on the drow already on the surface e.g. Drizzt Do'Urden and the woshippers of the dark maiden? Do they gain back their drown ablitity?
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 11:26:45
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| That is something I have pondered for a while now, and I have not yet come to a conclusion. Luckily for me, the campaign I DM is still years away from the Windwalker (currently 1364DR), so I will cross that bridge when I find it. The drow in my campaign (the PC) that is will remain a "lesser" drow when I convert to 3.5, but I don't know how the Windwalker events will affect my campaign, if at all. Maybe I just stick with the old idea that drow lose most of their abilities when they live on the surface, which in turn would create new obstacles but then again I will cross that bridge when it falls on me...or something like that...cheers |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Trace_Coburn
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
137 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 12:20:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
I heard that drow due to the windwalker power can now travel to the surface without losing their power anymore. But what effect does this have on the drow already on the surface e.g. Drizzt Do'Urden and the worshippers of the Dark Maiden? Do they gain back their drow abilities?
 
Get out of my BRAIN!  Dude, that idea's been bugging me for the last week! 
@Mace Hammerhand:
The Windwalker's effects aren't a factor to you... in 1364DR? I thought Liriel came to the surface c.1361DR? 
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D&D collection: Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual I, Complete Arcane, Arms & Equipment Guide.
FR sourcebook collection: Dragons of Faerūn, Faiths & Pantheons, FRCS, Lords of Darkness, Monsters of Faerūn, Player's Guide to Faerūn, Power of Faerūn, Races of Faerūn, Silver Marches.
I just got back into this, okay? Give me time (or better yet money) - I'll catch up soon enough. |
Edited by - Trace_Coburn on 08 Mar 2006 12:21:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 13:47:31
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I'd say that drow already on the surface were unaffected. The windwalker allows for the retention of place-based magic. If the power is already gone, there's nothing to be retained.
Now, if one of these surface drow was to return to the Underdark long enough for their powers to return, then I'd say they'd keep these powers when they went back to the World Above. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 14:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd say that drow already on the surface were unaffected. The windwalker allows for the retention of place-based magic. If the power is already gone, there's nothing to be retained.
Now, if one of these surface drow was to return to the Underdark long enough for their powers to return, then I'd say they'd keep these powers when they went back to the World Above.
If that were so would a drow all of the sudden get +2ECL?
In snd ed a drow had to stay in the Underdark for as long inside as he has spent outside, or something like that before his abilities return. For Drizzt that would mean a few years...yet if I remember correctly the FRCS states that he does have MR/SR orwhatever :-P |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 17:18:30
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| Well my take on it is a retcon, just Drizzt and other surface Drow that do not use SR etc. don't know they can use it. 3.x surface Drow do have SR, ability to cast those spells and so on. Perhaps in time 2nd and earilier surface Drow will discover that abilities that they believe are lost. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 12:32:08
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| Seems like a bad circle. The chinese have a saying that your fated enemy will grow stronger when u do. None of you will get much stronger than your fated enemy. Artemis Entreri gains the shade template and drizzt gets back his underdark abilities? This is too wierd |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 15:10:36
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| Just read the book where drizzt returns to Menzo, he stayed underground for quite some time, why didn't he get any of his spellslike ability back? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 15:59:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Just read the book where drizzt returns to Menzo, he stayed underground for quite some time, why didn't he get any of his spellslike ability back?
Because it either doesn't work that way, or because he was not there long enough. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:17:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Seems like a bad circle. The chinese have a saying that your fated enemy will grow stronger when u do. None of you will get much stronger than your fated enemy. Artemis Entreri gains the shade template and drizzt gets back his underdark abilities? This is too wierd
What's this crap about Artemis getting the Shade Template???
Did I miss something or were you just joking around?
And no...I don't mind spoilers because I can't possibly read every darned novel out there. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Artemis Entreri gains the shade template...
He didn't get the template, he just absorbed some of its essence. I do not remember the Sellswords novels mentioning it affecting him in any more than appearance. The flute from the dragon sisters did more to him than killing the shade with his nasty little dagger as far as I can tell. BTW, does his dagger have a name yet? It has been over six months since I read the last Sellswords novel and I can't remember. (I also need to remember who I loaned it to...I hate that! I want people to read my novels because I like them, but then I can't remember who I loaned them to!  ) |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:44:55
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Artemis Entreri gains the shade template...
He didn't get the template, he just absorbed some of its essence. I do not remember the Sellswords novels mentioning it affecting him in any more than appearance. The flute from the dragon sisters did more to him than killing the shade with his nasty little dagger as far as I can tell. BTW, does his dagger have a name yet? It has been over six months since I read the last Sellswords novel and I can't remember. (I also need to remember who I loaned it to...I hate that! I want people to read my novels because I like them, but then I can't remember who I loaned them to! )
Crap...utter crap...
Just when I liked Artemis even more after Servant of the Shard they have to go and make him more/less than human. I liked him most because he was JUST human but still better than almost anyone else in combat.
Craps. Oh well... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 14:45:49
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| Strangely, for a man of his age, he sure is agile. Some of the acrobats done by him in Promise of the Witch King probably couldn't even be done by a elf. I'm sure the shade kill at least made him age at least slightly slower. He should be pushing on to 50 no, isn't it? Even Jackie Chan can't do half of what Artemis did |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 18:48:27
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| He's in his forties, actually (although maybe fifties, given that RAS's novels tend to be behind on the timeline). I don't think of think being middle-aged makes one decrepit, even if he would be past his prime. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 22:42:51
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Him being in his fifties was the in-novel reason why he had to take on the template. Thus we have him about for ... as long as RAS wishes.
BTW, this drow ability stuff has been done to death. When the novels were first written, they were based on AD&D lore. Nowadays, we have 3E rules and the drow do not lose their abilities any longer. The description in Windwalker makes good reading, but take note that this has not been verified in any sourcebook and is in essence just the reasoning of a novel characetr in-novel. You see, another novel character in-novel reasoned that Drizzt is indeed a chosen of Lolth (that renegade drow priestess in the Hunters Blade series) and this also grew arms and legs in no-time. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 01:11:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
You see, another novel character in-novel reasoned that Drizzt is indeed a chosen of Lolth (that renegade drow priestess in the Hunters Blade series) and this also grew arms and legs in no-time.
You mean to tell me Drizzt ISN'T a Chosen of Lolth? 
Seriously though, I still don't allow Drow to have their abilities on the surface...my reasoning being that it is the Underdark Radiations (can't remember the name) that have given the race these innate abilities and without sustained contact with it they lose the power.
I DO allow them their Spell Resistance though...because in my reasoning this is do to generations having to live under the radiation that has made their SR a genetic trait of sorts. That is just my take on it. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 01:56:08
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Artemis Entreri gains the shade template...
He didn't get the template, he just absorbed some of its essence. I do not remember the Sellswords novels mentioning it affecting him in any more than appearance. The flute from the dragon sisters did more to him than killing the shade with his nasty little dagger as far as I can tell. BTW, does his dagger have a name yet? It has been over six months since I read the last Sellswords novel and I can't remember. (I also need to remember who I loaned it to...I hate that! I want people to read my novels because I like them, but then I can't remember who I loaned them to! )
Actually, Jarlaxle did mention that the lifespan of Artemis has been increased due to him absorbing the Shade's lifeforce. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 02:05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Actually, Jarlaxle did mention that the lifespan of Artemis has been increased due to him absorbing the Shade's lifeforce.
I swear, give an author advanced warning that the world is jumping 100 years in the future and he goes and saves some of his favorite characters! Sheesh (end sarcasm)
Seriously though...I see Artemis and Drizzt going at it again in 100 years if the fella is still around... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 16:37:51
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| Can you imagine their level and stats in a 100 years? |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 16:48:07
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| No, for orc warriors will bring no XP for a ECL 18 chap like Drizzt. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 16:50:49
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
You see, another novel character in-novel reasoned that Drizzt is indeed a chosen of Lolth (that renegade drow priestess in the Hunters Blade series) and this also grew arms and legs in no-time.
You mean to tell me Drizzt ISN'T a Chosen of Lolth?
No. I am telling you what people make of things said by novel-figures. It is simply that, a novel-figures reasoning. And it holds as much relevance to the rules as your house rule about the drow SLAs when people start debating lore. Your opinion is fine, but just that, an opinion.  |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 18:50:29
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quote:
No, for orc warriors will bring no XP for a ECL 18 chap like Drizzt.
I think the prelude chapter in "The Orc King" showed that Drizz't wasn't killing orcs...and the xp/stat comment was probably alluding to the tendancy of Drizz't to encounter high CR encounters often, as Salvatore has written. |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 22:10:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
You see, another novel character in-novel reasoned that Drizzt is indeed a chosen of Lolth (that renegade drow priestess in the Hunters Blade series) and this also grew arms and legs in no-time.
You mean to tell me Drizzt ISN'T a Chosen of Lolth?
No. I am telling you what people make of things said by novel-figures. It is simply that, a novel-figures reasoning. And it holds as much relevance to the rules as your house rule about the drow SLAs when people start debating lore. Your opinion is fine, but just that, an opinion.
I was only teasing...and I know what I say is only my opinion.
I'm not a WotC author or game creator after all... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2007 : 02:43:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Actually, Jarlaxle did mention that the lifespan of Artemis has been increased due to him absorbing the Shade's lifeforce.
That could just be his mistaken opinion.
Not saying Jarlaxle is wrong, just pointing out that just because a character in a novel says something doesn't mean it has to be taken as a fact. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Oct 2007 02:44:43 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2007 : 02:46:39
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
I was only teasing...and I know what I say is only my opinion.
I think the point Zanan is making is really about the opinions of novel characters (such as regarding a character in a novel thinking that Drizzt is a Chosen of Lolth). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2007 : 06:20:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Actually, Jarlaxle did mention that the lifespan of Artemis has been increased due to him absorbing the Shade's lifeforce.
Having an extended lifespan and actually becoming a shade are two different things. Also, Realms of Shadow came out really close the the release of the 3e FRCS, and in his statblock in the FRCS on pg. 158 does not mention anything about him having the Shade template. So yes, it affected him, but no, he is not a shade. Also, he is not mentioned in the novels as having any of the spell-like abilities of a shade. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2007 : 11:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Haman
quote:
No, for orc warriors will bring no XP for a ECL 18 chap like Drizzt.
I think the prelude chapter in "The Orc King" showed that Drizz't wasn't killing orcs...and the xp/stat comment was probably alluding to the tendancy of Drizz't to encounter high CR encounters often, as Salvatore has written.
Sure enough. I was referring to him slaughtering orcs by the score in the Hunters Blades series and from all what we know of orcs and their class levels, they are all low key, CR-wise.* Mind you, even Obould would not earn the drow much should he slay him. That said, all the above has no "real" relevance to novel figures. If the designers decide that Drizzt is going to be a Ftr 12/Scout 5/ Tempest 5 in 4E, they will simply make him that.
*Well, yes I know that he slew a few frost giants inbetween - as we all do on a Saturday afternoon. Hm ... now, that was a bit sarcastic, wasn't it? Maybe i am still reluctant to give this character the credit he deserves, after reading about him defeating mariliths and balors and tons of elite drow fighters ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 11:51:06
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I wouldn't know but my personal opinion is that killing dozens of orcs would surely net him some exp. If not Alusair and most general of battles including Arilyn or Elminster wouldn't lvl up pass a certain figure.
Anyway, I do know of some DM who in their trouble in finding powerful creatures for their characters to kill, group up huge number of monsters and created a CR 10 creature.
E.G. 10 lvl 1 orc = CR3 or 4 monster |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 12:44:12
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Actually, Jarlaxle did mention that the lifespan of Artemis has been increased due to him absorbing the Shade's lifeforce.
Having an extended lifespan and actually becoming a shade are two different things. Also, Realms of Shadow came out really close the the release of the 3e FRCS, and in his statblock in the FRCS on pg. 158 does not mention anything about him having the Shade template. So yes, it affected him, but no, he is not a shade. Also, he is not mentioned in the novels as having any of the spell-like abilities of a shade.
If you had read my post correctly, I never said that Artemis became a Shade. I merely stated a fact that Jarlaxle commented to that crazy dwarf that Artemis will live longer than an average human due to the fact that he used his vampiric dagger on a Shade. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 18:25:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Actually, Jarlaxle did mention that the lifespan of Artemis has been increased due to him absorbing the Shade's lifeforce.
Having an extended lifespan and actually becoming a shade are two different things. Also, Realms of Shadow came out really close the the release of the 3e FRCS, and in his statblock in the FRCS on pg. 158 does not mention anything about him having the Shade template. So yes, it affected him, but no, he is not a shade. Also, he is not mentioned in the novels as having any of the spell-like abilities of a shade.
If you had read my post correctly, I never said that Artemis became a Shade. I merely stated a fact that Jarlaxle commented to that crazy dwarf that Artemis will live longer than an average human due to the fact that he used his vampiric dagger on a Shade.
I apologize for the misunderstanding. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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(Spolier mayhaps) Drow
