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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 15:35:47
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I've been having a chat with Lysander (and also looking at various maps) about travelling times for our party, and it seems the distances of maps keep changing 
For example the FRCS map of the Dalelands shows the distance between shadowdale and ashabenford (along the river) to be roughly 45 miles. However other maps show it to be around 80 or so.
Recently checking out the map (stamped with the official wotc) displayed on the wikipedia site brought up in another scroll, this agrees with Lysanders estimates of around 80 miles.
Even more of a problem comes when using volos guide to the dalelands to estimate travelling time between two towns, espcially when they cross a dale border, where the maps don't seem to join up correctly.
Currently I'm quite lost and don't know what to believe, can anyone suggest which is the 'most' official maps to use
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 15:43:33
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| One major map problem is the map in the beginning of Canticle compared to the that region on the FRCS poster map |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 15:46:15
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When the FRCS came out, WOTC contracted the continent down, by about a 1/3 or perhaps more. This may be the issue that you are having right now, because if you are looking at maps from before 3rd edition, the continent was much larger.
Erlkazar was seriously squished during the contraction. (The region referred to in Canticle) |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 15:54:43
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Thats pretty stupid  , thanks for the info though, guess I'll just have to stick to 3rd ed stuff, although it means so far that my party has been travelling around a seriously warped Dalelands |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 17:05:41
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| They also shifted the continent northwest when they changed the map, and so some places switched rivers, some other lands features just up and disappeared, etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 17:32:19
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| Why did they do that? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 17:54:40
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Why did they do that?
They felt that there was to much open space, plus removing those spaces allowed them to fit it onto a single paper map. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 18:00:07
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| I would use the pre-3E maps, Kaladorm, which are more plentiful and truer to the Realms. The VGD maps do match up with only minor discrepancies (I've played with assembling them in Photoshop). |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 19:06:07
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| In that case I hear there is some sort of program with all the detailed maps of faerun on? If someone knows of it I'd greatly appreciate if they could tell me about it, since I'd prefer my map of the realms to be as consistent as possible :) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 20:04:37
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| The Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlus, but good luck finding it for less then 50 bucks since it's long out of print software. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Firhyanda
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 00:09:41
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Greetings
I think that it is long past time for a new full size color map of the Realm’s to be printed for those of us who do not own the one from dragon magazine printed all those years ago would surly buy it. Some parts of that map are no longer available, and the interactive atlas can be difficult to find, and frankly I prefer a good paper map. I have many of the previously published maps of the realm’s both electronic and otherwise and I think a new large map of the Realms would be nice. The new fans need this. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 01:05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Erlkazar was seriously squished during the contraction. (The region referred to in Canticle)
I prefer using the older maps also... as they have a sense of "Forgotten-ness" about them.
As for the 3e maps... Erlkazar was one of the "realms" to experience changes in location between editions. I'll let Steven explain -
"Re: places: a novel free zone erlkazar
No, it's still there, whether or not it gets acknowledged on the map or in the Lands of Intrigue listing in the FRCS.
At least it's still there in my mind. ;) They just crunched it all into smaller space (and I wasn't around or paying attention when they did this with the main maps of Faerun, so I don't even know the logic or explanation behind the changes).
Just remember that world maps for our own world changed multitudinous times over the centuries, so I'd say use whatever maps make you happiest with the Realms and be done with the rest.
Steven It is never too late to be what you might have been. (George Elliot/Mary Ann Evans)"
When I do have to use 3e maps though... I always recall these words from Steven (again ) about their "poor" detailing -
"Chalk it up to Sembian mapmakers or something to overlook their existence, that's all."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 01:06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
They also shifted the continent northwest when they changed the map, and so some places switched rivers, some other lands features just up and disappeared, etc.
Indeed. We saw that a lot of the "unrequired" regions suffered a cut from the new maps in 3e  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 01:07:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Firhyanda
Greetings
I think that it is long past time for a new full size color map of the Realm’s to be printed for those of us who do not own the one from dragon magazine printed all those years ago would surly buy it. Some parts of that map are no longer available, and the interactive atlas can be difficult to find, and frankly I prefer a good paper map. I have many of the previously published maps of the realm’s both electronic and otherwise and I think a new large map of the Realms would be nice. The new fans need this.
While I do agree with you, the FRCS, with its full-color map, should still be readily available. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 11:10:15
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| They even have a road passing through the Misty Vale, where the wild elves supposedly kill all tresspassers. |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 22:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlus, but good luck finding it for less then 50 bucks since it's long out of print software. :)
I believe this is a good point to say: I got the Atlas, I got the Atlas.
The last time I DM'ed, someone invested heavily (as they could try to, later, when they realized what the gig was) in Profession (mapmaker). Y'see, I DM off of the 1E/2E maps, and when players buy or ask me for maps, most of the time they'll get a 3E map.
Player: "Are we there yet?"
Me: "No."
PL: "..."
Me: "Hm?"
PL: "Are we there yet?"
Me: "No."
PL: Grumbles
PL: "Are we there yet?"
Me: "No."
PL: More Grumbles
PL: "Are we there yet?!?!"
Me: "No."
PL2: "Dammit, this map is *%#@ED!" |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
Edited by - Lysander on 23 Feb 2006 22:19:32 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 23:05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I would use the pre-3E maps, Kaladorm, which are more plentiful and truer to the Realms. The VGD maps do match up with only minor discrepancies (I've played with assembling them in Photoshop).
Agreed, I decided I like the older maps better. :) |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 21:43:09
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So all this nonsense was for the sake of an attractive poster?
I'm going to stop here before i write something profane
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 21:54:52
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| Well, if it was an attack, your profane bonus would stack with your base attack bonus . . . |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 21:59:02
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Its hard to say if the current "version" of the maps will survive if there are indeed future editions. My main concern is that nothing major as far as cities or the like are gotten rid of. I think Erlkazar is the closest thing we had to the map contraction actually eliminating Realmslore.
I keep using the maps from the old products like the Volo's Guides, and there have only been a few times that my players have whipped out the 3rd edition map to make their plans. I haven't specifically told them that they are wrong for doing it, since I kinda figure its a representation of what the PCs, not experts in cartography, might actually know.
But boy would they have been surprised at how long a walk they would have had getting back from Silverymoon to Ashabenford if they had actually trusted the map and not hired a mage to teleport them to the Marsh of Tun. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2006 : 20:07:19
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I would also like to point out discrepency within 3rd Edition in the same book! The FRCS fold out map and the maps within the book (page 117 specifically) are drawn to show different distances between various cities.
I think my party noticed this when they were traveling from Sembia to Shadowdale and the two maps, from the same book, were not even close in regards to distance.
It's really quite pathetic in my opinion that something like that can happen. From edition to edition and book to book is one thing, but screwing printing contradictions within the same book is inexcusable. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2006 : 21:30:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
I would also like to point out discrepency within 3rd Edition in the same book! The FRCS fold out map and the maps within the book (page 117 specifically) are drawn to show different distances between various cities.
I think my party noticed this when they were traveling from Sembia to Shadowdale and the two maps, from the same book, were not even close in regards to distance.
It's really quite pathetic in my opinion that something like that can happen. From edition to edition and book to book is one thing, but screwing printing contradictions within the same book is inexcusable.
Furthermore the compass rose in the FRCS is upside down. :) North points south, and vice versa. I'm talking about the map on page 231. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Accuracy of Maps
