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capheira
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 03:10:13
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I plan on posting this message over on the Wizards.com board, too, but I thought I'd ask here first:
First, to give the general sense of what the heck I'm talking about, I read a few entries in the Spellbook by Ramon Arjona and loved them:
Summon Blood Elemental, Styptic, Hemorrhage
How can blood elementals and the "Elemental Plane of Blood" be included in an under-construction FR campaign in such a way as to mesh with canon as much as possible? I hauled out Vile Darkness and the PGtF, and I got some ideas for some very interesting priestesses of Loviatar (possibly in Dambrath, possibly just the most powerful in Dambrath)/cult of Loviatar whose members were grooving into the bloodletting aspect of pain. The Blood Rift and the Barrens of Doom and Despair seem, planar-wise, to be a decent place for blood elementals to exist, what with the river and the general vibe of the place.
So far, so good: but I wanted some opinions and some ideas on the general game balance of it. True Elementals in FR always seem to have an opposite number (Fire-Water, Earth-Air), and even the paraelementals are balanced (Smoke-Magma, etc) - so what could balance a Blood Elemental? What could be the opposite of Blood?
Has anyone run this? (I also think that there was some sort of other history given about the cleric who created this spell, Siashton Mith - anyone remember that? I googled the name and simply got a lot of non-English results for the summon spell.)
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 03:30:07
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First off, the second part of your question . . . although the blood elemental appears much like a normal elemental, it is from an outer plane, and isn't strickly an elemental, just an outsider, so I don't think they need to have an "opposite number."
As far as the "Elemental Plane of Blood" and where it would fit in Faerunian Cosmology, actually, reading through the description, I would leave it as a creature summoned from an alien cosmology, thus the "Elemental Plane of Blood" isn't represented in Faerun Cosmology, just as pseudonatural creatures aren't from Faerunian Cosmology, since the Far Realm isn't part of the Faerunian cosmology.
That's how I would rule on it, at the very least. They might even be from the Far Realm.
BTW, back in the second edition days, there were Blood, Cairn, Pyre, and Fog elementals in Ravenloft, which were just normal elemental spirits that were twisted into being evil by entering Ravenloft and inhabiting a media that wasn't as pure as they normally inhabit. |
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capheira
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 04:41:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
First off, the second part of your question . . . although the blood elemental appears much like a normal elemental, it is from an outer plane, and isn't strickly an elemental, just an outsider, so I don't think they need to have an "opposite number."
Good call. I didn't think of that.
quote:
BTW, back in the second edition days, there were Blood, Cairn, Pyre, and Fog elementals in Ravenloft, which were just normal elemental spirits that were twisted into being evil by entering Ravenloft and inhabiting a media that wasn't as pure as they normally inhabit.
Oh, now that is fantastic, and spooky, and something that could really be awesome. Air = Fog, Pyre = Fire, Cairn = Earth, and Blood = Water, right? (I'm looking to use Heroes of Horror in Halruaa, so this could really be a good thing to stick in.)
Thank you. :) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 04:49:40
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| Yeah, I always thought that was a creepy take on elementals, which are not creatures that you normally associate with horror. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 06:49:33
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A blood elemental has been featured in the Realms already - well, unofficially at least. The "Bloodbane Throne of Uruth", relic of the orcish realm of Uruth Ukrypt, features one. At least according to Mr Eric L Boyd. Another tidbit of realmslore we'll have to sneak in somewhere, somehow.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 08:08:22
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As far as the "Elemental Plane of Blood" and where it would fit in Faerunian Cosmology, actually, reading through the description, I would leave it as a creature summoned from an alien cosmology, thus the "Elemental Plane of Blood" isn't represented in Faerun Cosmology, just as pseudonatural creatures aren't from Faerunian Cosmology, since the Far Realm isn't part of the Faerunian cosmology.
Actually, it is. The Far Realm is mentioned in Eric's City of Splendors: Waterdeep.
quote:
That's how I would rule on it, at the very least. They might even be from the Far Realm.
Given the effects on Siashton's mind that were discussed in the article, it is a distinct possibility.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 10:55:15
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| Well, without getting too technical, isn't the point of the Far Realm that it touches several cosmologies without actually being a part of it? That was the only point I was trying to make. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 13:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Well, without getting too technical, isn't the point of the Far Realm that it touches several cosmologies without actually being a part of it? That was the only point I was trying to make.
Ah.
The Far Realm is traditionally conceptualised as being *outside* a particular setting cosmology. By extension, it could be theorised that it exists beyond all setting cosmologies -- FR, DL, GH... and the rest.
In fact, I have a budding theory that the plane of Xoriat in Eberron is actually an planar extension of the basic Far Realm intruding into the world's cosmology rather than just remaining outside of it.
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 17:10:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Well, without getting too technical, isn't the point of the Far Realm that it touches several cosmologies without actually being a part of it? That was the only point I was trying to make.
Ah.
The Far Realm is traditionally conceptualised as being *outside* a particular setting cosmology. By extension, it could be theorised that it exists beyond all setting cosmologies -- FR, DL, GH... and the rest.
In fact, I have a budding theory that the plane of Xoriat in Eberron is actually an planar extension of the basic Far Realm intruding into the world's cosmology rather than just remaining outside of it.
Dammit, Sage, we're thinking the same thoughts again! |
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capheira
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 18:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In fact, I have a budding theory that the plane of Xoriat in Eberron is actually an planar extension of the basic Far Realm intruding into the world's cosmology rather than just remaining outside of it.
I agree. The language used to describe both the Far Realm and Xoriat (especially that "river of milk" and "many layers" stuff) makes me think they're very closely related. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 23:54:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Well, without getting too technical, isn't the point of the Far Realm that it touches several cosmologies without actually being a part of it? That was the only point I was trying to make.
Ah.
The Far Realm is traditionally conceptualised as being *outside* a particular setting cosmology. By extension, it could be theorised that it exists beyond all setting cosmologies -- FR, DL, GH... and the rest.
In fact, I have a budding theory that the plane of Xoriat in Eberron is actually an planar extension of the basic Far Realm intruding into the world's cosmology rather than just remaining outside of it.
Dammit, Sage, we're thinking the same thoughts again!
Hehe...
I don't normally like to place so much influence on the Far Realm, since it is usually interpreted as a realm that cannot be easily defined by the inarticulate language we use to describe realities, but in the case of Eberron and Xoriat, and exception needs to be made.
Besides, I don't actually think Xoriat is the Far Realm, but rather a region of the Outside Realm that, because of its intrusion into our reality, has slowly been adopting many of the planar traits of our multiverse -- a diluted Far Realm if you will. Over time, Xoriat may actually degenerate further until it is much like Limbo is now in the Great Wheel/Tree.
And before Big Al comes probing with his "Wand of Off-Topicness", remember that the Far Realm has already been connected to this discussion already. I'm merely providing more mental meandering  .
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11712 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 15:57:53
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>>so what could balance a Blood Elemental? What could be the >>opposite of Blood?
I've heard the saying "Blood and Semen don't mix".
Seriously though, is it that you want to use blood elementals? Stat-wise elementals are very similar in immunities to a construct. It could be that you simply change the spell into something more along the lines of summon animated blood or an animate blood spell. Perhaps they can even be created by clerics who collect the blood that they've offered up in sacrifice (and only that blood is sacred enough for the spell, etc...)
If you are more interested in having some planar area that these creatures might come from, there is always the river of blood.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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capheira
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 18:56:39
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>so what could balance a Blood Elemental? What could be the >>opposite of Blood?
I've heard the saying "Blood and Semen don't mix".
 Yuck. 
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Seriously though, is it that you want to use blood elementals? Stat-wise elementals are very similar in immunities to a construct. It could be that you simply change the spell into something more along the lines of summon animated blood or an animate blood spell. Perhaps they can even be created by clerics who collect the blood that they've offered up in sacrifice (and only that blood is sacred enough for the spell, etc...)
I like that idea. Maybe the clerics of Loviatar in Dambrath are really making something scary with all those sacrifices - it's definitely a new direction to take the spell and a great hook to explore as I'm constructing this campaign. :)
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
If you are more interested in having some planar area that these creatures might come from, there is always the river of blood.
Yeah, I thought of that, too. Good to see we're all on the same page (or, um, river, as the case may be). |
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Integrating blood elementals with canon
