| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Feb 2003 : 10:35:32
|
Someone mentioned to me the other day that they had read somewhere that the Double Diamond Triangle Saga was considered officially by WotC (or TSR, not sure if WotC have the same view), that the novels are NOT canon!
Can anyone (particulary FR authors, are you still within Candlekeep Dave Gross, you wrote Opportunity for Profit (part 5) after all  ) clarify this and give any explanation as to why it is seen as not being canon?
|
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
|
Edited by - Lord Rad on 15 Feb 2003 10:36:43
|
|
|
Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2003 : 16:17:53
|
Ah, yes . . .
The quintuple inverted rhombus dodecahedron hypercube saga, as it was known among many inside the hallowed halls.
I'm sorry I can't answer your question, but you did bring up some very fond memories. . . . |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
 |
|
|
Rellen Amostirren
Acolyte
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2003 : 10:02:26
|
If I seem to recall, it was set in 1370+DR and when they brought out 3rd Ed. FR, it caused to many problems with regards to the timeline. So they put it down to a realms book written by Volo I think.
Could never get my hands on that 3rd book in the series lol |
"Stealing teeth and still leaving folks with a smile!!" |
|
|
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2003 : 10:20:49
|
| I didnt think the series (saga!) was a realms-shattering event? I cant understand how it would cause a problem to such a degree as to be declared unofficial. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
|
|
|
|
Ranaghar Tsaran
Learned Scribe
Poland
133 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2003 : 13:37:20
|
| Could anybody tell me what this saga is about?In Poland we don't have such novels... |
"Do not be afraid of greatness. Some achieve greatness, some are born great, and some have greatness thrust upon them..." |
|
|
|
zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2003 : 14:09:59
|
It's a "Labyrinth novel" in 9 episodes.
You read the first one (i only have the title in French): The Rapt
The you have the choice between reading the number 2 (Paladins) or 3 (Mercenatries).
The the 2 is followed by the 4 (Can't translate  ) and the 3 by the 5 (no translation again )
Then you have to read the 6 (Conspiracy).
Then you have the choice between the 7 (Alliances (?)) or the 8 (Betrayals)
And you finish by the 9 (diamond)
The double diamond name comes from the drawing they made to explain how to read the novels
1
2 3
4 6 5
7 8
9
The authors are James M. Ward, David Wise, Ed Greenwood, J. Robert King, Richard Baker, David Cook, Peter Archer, Dave Gross, Roger E. Moore |
|
|
|
zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2003 : 14:11:06
|
The schema i made isn't very readable.
The spaces between the numbers had been removed |
|
|
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
|
|
Ranaghar Tsaran
Learned Scribe
Poland
133 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2003 : 19:31:32
|
Rad, Zemd...Thank you very much for information |
"Do not be afraid of greatness. Some achieve greatness, some are born great, and some have greatness thrust upon them..." |
|
|
|
sushisauce
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2003 : 00:35:02
|
| I am still confued... where and what exactly is it about? |
Normal is what we choose it to be. |
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2003 : 14:25:11
|
Don't know exactly what the story is about, I've read such a type of novel before, and wasn't really thrilled by the concept. That has been the main reason for me not to pursue any of these books, in addition to the fact that I do recall people mentioning that it wasn't considered Realms canon at the time the first books were published.
As feedback to WotC, the concept as done with the Sembia series was IMO a much better format, with multiple authors writing overlapping stories on a common set of characters. The books can be read as stand-alone or as a series without much difference to the reader. |
|
|
|
Dave_Gross
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2003 : 01:55:20
|
Yep, I'm still here. While I've read online that the DDTS is not canon, I've never heard anything either way from the Wizards editors. So I'm afraid I can't be of any help in that matter.
On the other hand, I love a good conspiracy theory and can spin my own--just not online, and not without two pints for incentive. (One in front of me and one inside of me.)
In other news, I just received the author copies of Lord of Stormweather, which included two wonderful surprises on which I'll elaborate in a more appropriate topic.
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Someone mentioned to me the other day that they had read somewhere that the Double Diamond Triangle Saga was considered officially by WotC (or TSR, not sure if WotC have the same view), that the novels are NOT canon!
Can anyone (particulary FR authors, are you still within Candlekeep Dave Gross, you wrote Opportunity for Profit (part 5) after all ) clarify this and give any explanation as to why it is seen as not being canon?
|
|
|
|
Voronica Whitney-Robinson
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2003 : 03:30:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave_Gross
In other news, I just received the author copies of Lord of Stormweather, which included two wonderful surprises on which I'll elaborate in a more appropriate topic.
Dave
You're such a tease, Dave. By the way, I loved Lord of Stormweather! |
V.
A friend will help you move.
A real friend will help you move a body...
Visit http://www.voronica.com to see what else I've been up to. |
Edited by - Alaundo on 18 Feb 2003 09:11:40 |
|
|
|
Dave_Gross
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2003 : 04:32:50
|
Thanks for the kind words, Voronica! And thanks for the loan of Tazi, who is clearly the most competent and admirable of the Uskevren brats. I hope I did her justice in the scenes when she appears in LOS. If you think so, tell everyone. If you don't think so, don't tell anybody!
If we can't get Ed and Lisa to come down from the Great White North and Richard and Paul to cruise over to the Left Coast, then some Gen Con we've got to get all the Sembians together and write some sort of closed-room mystery all together, maybe in the space of a few hours, maybe with an open bar. Perhaps some karaoke.
I'm just saying.
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Voronica Whitney-Robinson
You're such a tease, Dave. By the way, I loved Lord of Stormweather!
|
|
|
|
Voronica Whitney-Robinson
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2003 : 23:58:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave_Gross
Thanks for the kind words, Voronica! And thanks for the loan of Tazi, who is clearly the most competent and admirable of the Uskevren brats. I hope I did her justice in the scenes when she appears in LOS. If you think so, tell everyone. If you don't think so, don't tell anybody!
If we can't get Ed and Lisa to come down from the Great White North and Richard and Paul to cruise over to the Left Coast, then some Gen Con we've got to get all the Sembians together and write some sort of closed-room mystery all together, maybe in the space of a few hours, maybe with an open bar. Perhaps some karaoke.
I'm just saying.
Dave
I loved how you used Tazi in LOS. You wrote her in the way that I always see her. A really fine novel. I'm glad the cover color worked out for you as Terese did such a fantastic job on the artwork of each and every one (my personal favorite was the cover for Black Wolf).
As for the "closed room mystery", all I have to say is definitely an open bar! I'll need it if I have to listen to Ed sing "Feelings". |
V.
A friend will help you move.
A real friend will help you move a body...
Visit http://www.voronica.com to see what else I've been up to. |
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 05:40:55
|
If you guys do get together for that 'closed room mystery' thingy with a bar, please sneak in a webcam or some such.
Looking forward to LOS, and I guess there's more here that do. Again, excellent series and a good concept. |
|
|
|
Dave_Gross
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 06:09:39
|
You realize that Ed sings Feelings only with the pink boa on, right?
While I've got to agree, at the risk of seeming smug, that Terese outdid herself on Black Wolf, she sure did a great job with Sands of the Soul, too. Tazi looks pretty darned buff there. Those two plus the original Halls cover are my favorites.
You know, they ought to do a Sembia comic and get her to paint the covers. That's what I think.
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Voronica Whitney-Robinson
I loved how you used Tazi in LOS. You wrote her in the way that I always see her. A really fine novel. I'm glad the cover color worked out for you as Terese did such a fantastic job on the artwork of each and every one (my personal favorite was the cover for Black Wolf).
As for the "closed room mystery", all I have to say is definitely an open bar! I'll need it if I have to listen to Ed sing "Feelings".
|
|
|
|
zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 10:31:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by sushisauce
I am still confued... where and what exactly is it about?
The story takes place in a lot of place (i know, two 'place' in the same sentence )
For example the frst tome takes place (and again!) in waterdeep where Peiregon's (sp?) wife is captured. The second is in Skullport where Paladins try to follow the capturers... and so on |
|
|
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 17:56:05
|
| Just checked the WotC site which has a new link to the novel timeline and this shows that the novels of the Double Diamond Triangle Saga are stated to be "Apocrypha / Volo's Attempts at Fiction", so I guess this is thier way of saying that it isnt canon. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
|
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2003 : 01:36:52
|
Making the Double Diamond Triangle Saga the work of Volo (and hence fiction within fiction) was one of the last FR decisions made by Steven Schend before he left WotC. It didn't fit into plans for FR 3E, was a noose around designers necks as it was set so far into the future, and wasn't an all that brilliant FR product in the first place. It wasn't a tough decision to make.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2003 : 02:04:34
|
No offense at all to Dave Gross, for I never read his book, but I thought that diamond series was the worse piece of writing TSR ever put out. The story grabbed me like a bar of soap. I couldn't even finish the second book. It was the first FR book I read that I actually said "WHO CARES?" and closed it for ever.
|
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
|
|
|
Dave_Gross
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2003 : 05:36:48
|
No offense taken, since you didn't get to mine. :)
For anyone who has enjoyed my books, check out T.H. Lain's The Sundered Arms, which I believe is slated for July (but I saw a May date on the indicia of the galleys). Writing for the T.H. Lain line is similar in a few respects to writing for the Double-Diamond series, but mostly it was easier and more fun, and I think the end product will please more people.
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by mournblade94
No offense at all to Dave Gross, for I never read his book, but I thought that diamond series was the worse piece of writing TSR ever put out. The story grabbed me like a bar of soap. I couldn't even finish the second book. It was the first FR book I read that I actually said "WHO CARES?" and closed it for ever.
|
|
|
|
zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2003 : 10:33:15
|
The double diamond saga isn't SO bad. Well, i didn't finish either, but it's because the 6th book isn't released anymore in France (i only have the 8 others  ) but i plan to get an english copy soon |
|
|
|
lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2003 : 21:21:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Making the Double Diamond Triangle Saga the work of Volo (and hence fiction within fiction) was one of the last FR decisions made by Steven Schend before he left WotC. It didn't fit into plans for FR 3E, was a noose around designers necks as it was set so far into the future, and wasn't an all that brilliant FR product in the first place. It wasn't a tough decision to make.
-- George Krashos
Is the political and cultural geography of the region (as presented in the books) changed now? |
|
|
|
Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2003 : 21:16:29
|
ah... so this little story/series has been confirmed as NOT canon? Was beginning to wonder as i finally started to get around to reading the set and am now starting the 8th book... and a lot of it wasn't making any sense... i was trying to figure out where it placed in the timeline (esp when wizards doesn't have it on the timeline they have on their site for FR stories/novels/comics...)
Especially...
*WARNING SPOILERS?*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
When Artemis is there... (tho i suspected it when he said only one person has matched his skill and neither could kill each other)... but the thing that really threw me off is where was his life-draining dagger? Supposedly only two of the pirate group he was with had any magic-weapons to harm the fiends when they were trying to get to Edrindal (SP? bleh...) and he didn't bring out his dagger :P and then the fact that he was actually getting hit in battles... when if i can recall right... him and drizzt were never able to land a cut on each other unless one tripped or such... tho my memory isn't very good... so i might be forgetting... but ah well.. |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
|
|
|
Mythander
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2003 : 19:26:13
|
I just finished reading this series. It did not seem to be that bad of a story, though it did start out fairly slow and trite.
{spoiler}
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
I think the reason for not being canon is the whole thing with the Utter East and the Bloodforges. I don't think WOTC wanted the all the nations of the Utter East to be able to summon magical armies at will.
|
Wow! That has no saving throw written all over it. |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 22:09:12
|
I listened to an interview with R A Salvatore and it was really funny to hear him talk about this series. When he had his falling out with TSR and never thought he was going to return to the Drizzt character, they wrote the above mentioned series, which included Artemis, his character, which would have been a no no if he was still on board.
When he worked everything out when WOTC bought the company, someone told him that Artimis had lost an arm in the series, he told them that they better fix it before the end of the series becuase they were going to look really stupid when he started writing Artimis again and he had both his arms.
It just reminds me of Ed Greenwood saying that if any author uses another persons character they generally get permission and leave them in the same condition that they found them . . . obviously an arm missing is a bit of a modification . . . |
|
|
|
Manix
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 05:22:55
|
I really liked this series. I actually have been looking to buy all of them again, I didn't know at the time that I had to read then in a differatn order than 1-9 though. This series is one that I am hoping that WotC puts into one big book.
Manix
Out |
|
|
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 19:15:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Manix
I really liked this series. I actually have been looking to buy all of them again, I didn't know at the time that I had to read then in a differatn order than 1-9 though. This series is one that I am hoping that WotC puts into one big book.
Manix
Out
I haven't read any of them myself and i'll probably be leaving them until last in my backlog reading.
I believe that WotC weren't very happy with these novels and treat them as non-canon also?
I'd be interested to hear any views on which particular numbered paths through the series are best. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
The Double Diamond Triangle Saga
