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eomer
Acolyte
Russia
28 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 08:45:30
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I have some questions about changes in pantheon after the fall on Netheril:
1. What was Dawn cataclysm?
2. When were Amaunator and Targus replaced with Lathander and Tempus?
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Yours Faithfully, Konstantin aka Eomer |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 09:06:09
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To question 1: Check the Realm Events section, there is a topic on the Dawn Catacylsm:
http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4689
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 11:34:33
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| We know Lathander was around in Athalanter, in the 200s DR. That's about the only firm date we have for his appearance. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 15:15:25
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Eomer, I suspect that Targus was actually Garagos, at least according to the 'Netherli'-boxed set (which describes Targus as a many-armed blood-thirsty god - exactly like Garagos in Powers & Pantheons). Perhaps Targus changed his name to Garagos before Tempus defeated him?
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"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 17:41:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Eomer, I suspect that Targus was actually Garagos, at least according to the 'Netherli'-boxed set (which describes Targus as a many-armed blood-thirsty god - exactly like Garagos in Powers & Pantheons). Perhaps Targus changed his name to Garagos before Tempus defeated him?
Powers and Pantheons says Targus is an alias for Garagos on page 179, so you're right. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 07:03:15
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Lathander was worshipped in 2nd century Athalantar, while Amaunator slowly died of neglect after the fall of Netheril. Amaunator is said to have finally gone to his grave in the Astral plane approximately a thousand years after the year of Sundered Webs, or sometime around the mid 600's DR.
Targus was the Netherese god of war. Garagos appears to have been the Jhaamdathan god of war. Tempus is most likely the Talfiric god of war. All these gods were from separate pantheons located in different geographic regions of Faerūn.
Ao has a rule that no god may have the same portfolio as another god within the same pantheon. Targus, Tempus and Garagos could all have the war portfolio simultaneously (back in the day) as they existed at the time in separate pantheons in separate spheres of influence.
Some time after the fall of Netheril, Targus merged with or was defeated in battle and his identity subsumed into Garagos, the Jhaamdathan god of War. With the chondathan diaspora, disparate cultures from all across Faerūn began to come together and merge, so likewise did their pantheons form a unified Faerūnian pantheon.
Thus Tempus and Garagos came into conflict, and Tempus won out. Garagos was forced to either die, merge with Tempus or adopt a different (but related) set of portfolios. Tempus got to keep war and Garagos took battle and plunder as his portfolios, thereby keeping his life and holding on to his separate identity as a god.
Here is a link to Eric Boyd's musings about all this: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/eb-pantheons.htm |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 15:15:01
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And after the Dawn Cataclysm, why exactly is Lathander proposing something new that will re-align the gods again? Is he that optimistic or just straight naive?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 17:46:31
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
And after the Dawn Cataclysm, why exactly is Lathander proposing something new that will re-align the gods again? Is he that optimistic or just straight naive?
C-Fb
Not to be flip, but yes. Lathander is optimistic enough to think he can pull it off, and naļve enough to think no one will have a problem with it. And before someone pops up proclaiming Lathander to be a big idiot, as we've seen, deities have serious blind spots. They basically don't see or think of things that don't relate to their portfolios or their followers. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2005 : 09:43:34
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The novel Tymora's Luck gives us a little insight into the character of Lathander. He is in many ways a flighty and flaky god. He is full of energy and initiative, and is great at starting things but not really at finishing them. Imagine a god with ADD.
It is mentioned that the Dawn Cataclysm was a war among the gods started when Lathander tried to unite the pantheons under his leadership.
It mentions also that he can be headstrong and unreasonable in his pursuit of new beginnings. There is a bit in there between Chauntea and Lathander that parallels the fable of the Ant and the Grasshopper where Chauntea is trying to till the soil and plant seeds in her Garden while Lathander wants her to come away with him to see the birth of some new star or something. Chauntea's devotion to duty is a sore spot for him when it comes to him missing out on something fun. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 02:28:45
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| I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Amaunator reincarnated himself as Lathander to avoid death from lack of worship after the fall of Netheril. He lost several portfolios in the process, but remained a greater god. However, I can't remember who said it, and I can't find it in my books (though I haven't looked hard). Can anyone confirm or deny? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 02:37:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Amaunator reincarnated himself as Lathander to avoid death from lack of worship after the fall of Netheril. He lost several portfolios in the process, but remained a greater god. However, I can't remember who said it, and I can't find it in my books (though I haven't looked hard). Can anyone confirm or deny?
Races of Faerun in the human entries and the new Waterdeep sourcebook also references it. It's Eric's brainchild. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 02:49:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Amaunator reincarnated himself as Lathander to avoid death from lack of worship after the fall of Netheril. He lost several portfolios in the process, but remained a greater god. However, I can't remember who said it, and I can't find it in my books (though I haven't looked hard). Can anyone confirm or deny?
Races of Faerun in the human entries and the new Waterdeep sourcebook also references it. It's Eric's brainchild. :)
As I recall, Eric's discussed it here several times as well. Do a search through the archived scrolls or check his compiled replies here at Candlekeep. Kuje'll have to give you his link to the other designers replies compiled here at Candlekeep... I don't have my URL file with me at the moment.
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Edited by - The Sage on 13 Nov 2005 02:51:30 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 03:09:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Amaunator reincarnated himself as Lathander to avoid death from lack of worship after the fall of Netheril. He lost several portfolios in the process, but remained a greater god. However, I can't remember who said it, and I can't find it in my books (though I haven't looked hard). Can anyone confirm or deny?
Races of Faerun in the human entries and the new Waterdeep sourcebook also references it. It's Eric's brainchild. :)
As I recall, Eric's discussed it here several times as well. Do a search through the archived scrolls or check his compiled replies here at Candlekeep. Kuje'll have to give you his link to the other designers replies compiled here at Candlekeep... I don't have my URL file with me at the moment.
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/misc_lore.htm |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Dawn Cataclysm & Gods of Netheril
