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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 19:07:11
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At what age do the elves of Toril reach adulthood ? Cormanthyr - Empire of the Elves says from 120 years (gold elves) to 60 (drow), but it is not very clear if this is a physical maturity or a mental one. I want to know when do they become mature physically, so if anyone has some info from one of the manuals or one of the sages to shed some light on this, I would really be grateful.
I would like to know especially the opinion of Ed Greenwood, since he is the creator of Forgotten Realms.
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 20:42:35
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| If I recall correctly the drow were fully functional as an adult at the age of 20. I am not sure about the other varieties of elves. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 21:10:09
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Part of the Problem is 3rd Edition revised the Drow, for that matter so did 2nd Edition.
Drow gestation is no longer 5 months it is 24 months just the same as the fair elves. Also FR Drow are not core rule Drow IIRC.
The general answer appears to be though sorting though all canon (which is subject to revision) is that all elves achieve near full growth statue by 20 or 30, just the Drow because of harsher conditions take on the role as an adult, where as the fair elves allow their children far more years to enjoy their youth.
There is also a stated (even in 3rd) a better fertility rate for Drow, however it is not well defined as if they start having children sooner (if so when). Short of WotC actually putting out something more about ages under 3rd the basic guideline is to look to 2nd material. It does not fit together well. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 21:40:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Part of the Problem is 3rd Edition revised the Drow, for that matter so did 2nd Edition.
Drow gestation is no longer 5 months it is 24 months just the same as the fair elves. Also FR Drow are not core rule Drow IIRC.
The general answer appears to be though sorting though all canon (which is subject to revision) is that all elves achieve near full growth statue by 20 or 30, just the Drow because of harsher conditions take on the role as an adult, where as the fair elves allow their children far more years to enjoy their youth.
There is also a stated (even in 3rd) a better fertility rate for Drow, however it is not well defined as if they start having children sooner (if so when). Short of WotC actually putting out something more about ages under 3rd the basic guideline is to look to 2nd material. It does not fit together well.
That was not what I was looking for. Opinions I had enough, I want some legal information.
Until now, Cormanthyr - Empire of the Elves, Players guide to Faerun and Complete Book of the Elves say that elves reach adulthood around 100. Only Races of the Wild gives the age of 25 and it is outnumbered. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 00:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Feanor
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Part of the Problem is 3rd Edition revised the Drow, for that matter so did 2nd Edition.
Drow gestation is no longer 5 months it is 24 months just the same as the fair elves. Also FR Drow are not core rule Drow IIRC.
The general answer appears to be though sorting though all canon (which is subject to revision) is that all elves achieve near full growth statue by 20 or 30, just the Drow because of harsher conditions take on the role as an adult, where as the fair elves allow their children far more years to enjoy their youth.
There is also a stated (even in 3rd) a better fertility rate for Drow, however it is not well defined as if they start having children sooner (if so when). Short of WotC actually putting out something more about ages under 3rd the basic guideline is to look to 2nd material. It does not fit together well.
That was not what I was looking for. Opinions I had enough, I want some legal information.
Until now, Cormanthyr - Empire of the Elves, Players guide to Faerun and Complete Book of the Elves say that elves reach adulthood around 100. Only Races of the Wild gives the age of 25 and it is outnumbered.
Legal infomation/canon itself conflicts.
SKR says Drow are very fertile that Drow have a child every 100 years.
Other WotC sites state that Drow have a fertilite rate neatr that too humans. I will note the human female can have a child per year over a period of over 20 years.
WotC has not taken any position on youth or fertility rates exceppt for such comments as I have cited (that I know of). To go furtether WotC nor D&D n current version deal with young at all. A PC or NPC is never a child, they are introduced at minimun a young aduly (age 17 for a human fighter). Drittz (or however his name is spelled) is age of about forty (IIRC) and currently acting as a full adult. Some of the Fair Elves have chirlden at age 80.
Mod Edit: In the interests of keeping things where they belong, I've added some touches to this post. Have a nice day 
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 Nov 2005 04:44:07 |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 02:48:27
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Can we get back on subject? Some of us care more about Elven stages of life. 
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 02:54:30
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I do not know the current maturity rate of Drow as to when they reach near adult status, I also do not know of when the fair elves achieve this state. However reading the scrolls herein and other sources it does appear that all elves appear to achieve near adult height within the first 20 to 30 years.
Mod Edit: More working... To keep things all nice and ordered .
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 Nov 2005 04:49:15 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 03:02:41
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| Since Ed said elves still have a 2 year gestation in FR I'd say drow also age differently and I'd use what is in Cormanthyr. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 04 Nov 2005 04:41:32 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 03:04:26
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Hm . . . maybe some of this confusion is because we are looking at elves directly from Core products. If nothing has been written about elves specifically IN THE REALMS, then the information is still the same. For example, if the core product superceded information on Elves in the Realms, then elven males would only be 5'6". We know elves in the Realms are the same height as humans, though that has now been reinforced with Races of Faerun.
What I am interested in is, do elven females and males mature at the same rate. While a human female is not really "mature" in all ways until later, she may reach her full height by the time she is 13 years old (though some do not), but human males might not be done growing until 19 years old (or slightly older). Its always been my opinion that elves are more balanced between males and females than humans, but I would be interested in finding out about this.
Part of this would also indicate that an elven female might be of full height for her maturity, but not able to have children for several decades yet. I would still look at it that elves reach their full height and physical (i.e. for purpose of combat) maturity around twenty, not much later than humans and the like.
Of course is all opinion, but its fun to speculate.
For some more ponderings along this same line, check out this thread:
http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5249
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 04 Nov 2005 03:06:48 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 03:19:14
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| The problem with this is this; Someone is going to have to go ask Ed because TSR mostly didn't touch gestation and growth of fantasy races. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 04:19:29
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Something else that is somewhat related.
Do female elves have control over their gestation, as Troy had implied in the Archwizards Trilogy?
As with many things from that trilogy, I've seen nothing else anywhere to back that one up. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 04:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Can we get back on subject? Some of us care more about Elven stages of life.
C-Fb
Indeed. I've attended to some posts in this scroll.
Now, let us continue the main topic at hand. Kentinal has rightly taken this *side* issue elsewhere, so we may focus on the actual topic of this scroll.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 06:41:27
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Drizzt is some eight-some years old - I think that attests to his forced upon responsibilities, that's all. If a faerie elf was as marshal as Drizzt was, they very well could be just as good at doing what Drizzt was.
C-Fb
P.s. - That was a lot of Drizzts. |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 13:40:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Something else that is somewhat related.
Do female elves have control over their gestation, as Troy had implied in the Archwizards Trilogy?
As with many things from that trilogy, I've seen nothing else anywhere to back that one up.
Yeah, plus Troy does tend to do some strange things at times. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 15:01:14
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Ok, KEJR - Now you brought up a very sore point - I warned you guys not to bring up Takari Moonsnow!
If you look at what Troy writes - "She had spent a tenday and a half praying to the Winged Mother to make her ready"! GAH! First off, what does Aedrie Faenya have to do with the reproduction of Elves? And secondly - why would the Gods ever take such an interest to make sure one elf was "ready"?
Argh.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 15:14:17
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I know this may draw some fire, but considering there has been so little written of elven fertility, in the Elven Nations books from DragonLance they don't give any indication that elven women can influence their fertility, but they do point out that elven women's fertility cycle is pretty well known to them, and is a much longer and drawn out thing than with humans. In other words, the elven females would know that they fertile time was coming up, and how long it would last, perhaps much better than a human women do.
The character in the book, when this was mentioned, was upset that her husband was away during the whole time that she was fertile, since it would be years before this came up again. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 15:18:26
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True - I think that it is a subject not touched on since a lot of this issue has to do with what TSR and WotC consider "mature" themes (damn Biology, why'd I have to learn it as a kid, then?)
They actually touch on this whole issue in the OGL "Book of Erotic Fantasy". It talks about fertility of a lot of the core races. I know it doesn't apply as "canon" to the Realms, but it does put somethings down in print.
And I would believe that elves would know their body better than the average human. They spend centuries in it - they would probably become more naturally attuned to it.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2005 : 08:35:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Since Ed said elves still have a 2 year gestation in FR I'd say drow also age differently and I'd use what is in Cormanthyr.
Can you give me a link to where he said that ? |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2005 : 10:46:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Feanor
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Since Ed said elves still have a 2 year gestation in FR I'd say drow also age differently and I'd use what is in Cormanthyr.
Can you give me a link to where he said that ?
Most likely buried somewhere in the Ed's Answers that is in Kuje's sig. |
News of the Weird
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2005 : 11:52:06
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Feanor
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Since Ed said elves still have a 2 year gestation in FR I'd say drow also age differently and I'd use what is in Cormanthyr.
Can you give me a link to where he said that ?
Most likely buried somewhere in the Ed's Answers that is in Kuje's sig.
Strangely enough, Ed answered this question on this day exactly a year ago. It's included in Kuje's compiled replies from Ed here at Candlekeep.
Here's the basic part, posted on the 5th November 2004 -
"kuje31 and Faraer, I must begin by apologizing to Faraer for taking so long to answer his Reverie query, which was asked here months back. Briefly, I see the elves (including the drow) as evolving, so that definitive answers no longer fit each and every individual elf. For most drow, gestation takes, yes, two years -- but just as for Faerunian and real-world humans, there are premature-birth children who survive and thrive, sometimes after as little as eleven months of pregnancy."
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 05 Nov 2005 11:53:57 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2005 : 13:52:50
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Ok, KEJR - Now you brought up a very sore point - I warned you guys not to bring up Takari Moonsnow!
If you look at what Troy writes - "She had spent a tenday and a half praying to the Winged Mother to make her ready"! GAH! First off, what does Aedrie Faenya have to do with the reproduction of Elves? And secondly - why would the Gods ever take such an interest to make sure one elf was "ready"?
Argh.
C-Fb
I suspect this was meant more along the lines like a childless couple on our world praying to [their godhead] to bless them with a child, not anything direct or truly divine. Nothing more than color to show she's not an atheist but a believer.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Elven stages of age
