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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 02:44:14
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Anyone know when Westgate was founded or have any earlier info then the following?
The earliest reference I can find for the city is -349 where a Netherese Wizard over throws its Dragon ruler.
Outside of the Old Empires region Westgate appears to be the oldest surviving city on the Sea of Fallen Stars
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 04:41:03
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Nothing earlier than -349 on C&D Web enhancement either
Doesnt look like theres any earlier info (Which means I can do what I want to do with it without contradicting any established realmslore)  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 04:47:34
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Westgate was founded, as noted in C&D and the web enhancement, in -349 DR as Westgate. Of course, the area may well have been something else beforehand but it has also been said that "Westgate was for a time the northernmost human settlement on the Inner Sea ..." so whatever you do with it may have to revolve around other races.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 05:01:32
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Ok I have a problem with that
From the WOTC Site Pdf on Westgate
-74 DR Year of Splendor
Marsember is founded (for the first time), and Westgate cedes its status as the northernmost port in the western Inner Sea region"
However LEOF says
"-200 Chondathan emigrants ancestors of the Dalesmen settle in the southern reaches of Cormanthor in modern day Sembia."
Presumably this means that some sort of settlement was founded on the Southern or eastern coast of Sembia circa -200 well before Marsembers founding in -74 |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 06:35:43
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You shouldn't have a problem with that at all.
The Chondathan settlers did indeed settle in modern-day Sembia from -200 DR or so but their settlements may have been only small scale, groups of farms, maybe a stockade and a few huts etc. They likely didn't build anything approaching a town in size, or anything that could be called a port because the elves probably wouldn't have let them.
Look at the map in the Year of the Tusk 112 DR in the Ol' Grey Boxed Set for a look at the Dales and Sembia 300 years AFTER the time period you are talking about. Sembia has three coastal settlements of significance (Chancelgaunt, Chondathan and Yhaunn) and most of the land area is forest (i.e. elven lands). Hence it is likely that the Chondathan settlers from -200 DR onwards moved inland (forming the first Dales) or only small coastal settlements that didn't show up on any maps (and may in fact have been destroyed by the elves - time and time again till they realised that the humans were going to keep coming and that they better get used to the idea: leading to the Dales compact and the raising of the Standing Stone).
In fact, it may well have been these same Chondathan settlers, pushed by the elves, who travelled down to the coast to found and settle Marsember - far enough away from elven reprisals to make a go of building a permanent port and settlement in the region. Subsequently, settlers then began to creep back up the coast and encroach on elven lands as they gathered strength.
Just a few thoughts.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 14:43:58
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It would have to have been the exception to the rule then, everywhere else the Chondathans went seemed to begin with a port being established. Marsember, Suzail, the cities states they established in Implitur etc all began with a port (which was logical as they would need a port to deal with supplies and colonists coming from the Vilhon reach
Also much of the area around Sembias coastline is open (At least going off the -626 map in LEOF) and would fall outside the Elven Kingdom which is predominatly bound by the forest |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 20:12:04
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I hate having to correct a Master of Realmslore, particularly one as respected as George Krashos.
George, I love your work on Impiltur... but you're just wrong about Westgate. Saldrinar of the Seven Spells killed the topaz dragon Kisonraathiisar in -349, yes, but the city of Westgate was founded long before then... the dragon was its first king, and who knows how long the dragon ruled... that, in fact, is the question I and others are seeking the answer to. Any chance of Ed having the answer, or is this something we can make up to suit our campaigns? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 20:15:26
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| And yes, I know the thread is three years old prior to my post, but nothing (to my knowledge) has been published since to shed any light on the original question, so I thought reviving this thread might stir up some new information from *somewhere*... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 23:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I hate having to correct a Master of Realmslore, particularly one as respected as George Krashos.
George, I love your work on Impiltur... but you're just wrong about Westgate. Saldrinar of the Seven Spells killed the topaz dragon Kisonraathiisar in -349, yes, but the city of Westgate was founded long before then... the dragon was its first king, and who knows how long the dragon ruled... that, in fact, is the question I and others are seeking the answer to. Any chance of Ed having the answer, or is this something we can make up to suit our campaigns?
Three years after the fact, I agree with you (except for the contention that the city was founded "long before that" - my personal view is that the place would have existed for less than a century). See my post in your other Westgate thread.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Founding date for Westgate
