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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
 Posted - 14 May 2005 : 20:47:50
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I was wondering if anybody has anything official to help me out with this. I'm skimmed Code of the Harpers but can't find anything concrete. I would guess Harpers would take prisoners within certain limits. Certainly no torture. I was just wondering how this would work with the crucial concept of freedom.
Also, how about the Zhents? Would they take political prisoners and possibly trade with the Harpers? Would the Harpers be willing to trade?
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Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Bendal
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 21:40:15
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| I've not seen anything in the Harper code that would prevent them from taking prisoners, or using questionable methods if it would gain them vital information quickly. By 'questionable methods' I mean such things as magical coercion or yes, even torture, although physical torture is notoriously unreliable when it comes to gaining good information. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 02:14:44
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Greetings, I seriously doubt the Zhents would swap political prisoners with the harpers, which the Zhents hate them to the core for meddling with their plans and killing their men. I think the Zhents would kill the prisoners after getting what they want from them and toss the dead corpse to the Harpers instead.
The Harpers though may be widely known as an organization of good, they may resort to torture to get information from their priosners but I think using illusionary magics to let their prisoners think they are being tortured so as to obtain information. But in the name of freedom, if it is what it takes to fight for freedom, I think the Harpers may or may not resort to ulgly means of getting information but most likely in a kinder way such as using illusionary magics to get information. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 02:28:44
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The Gauntlet High Herald of the Harpers is said to maintain a Warriors' Code on specific areas. This code is a necessary agreement which covers, among other things, treatment of prisoners.
So it seems that, for the most part, there is an "existing" convention on how to treat prisoners among the Harpers.
An interesting aside to all of this though, would be whether or not the tactics of prisoner treatment among the Moonstars, would be any different to that of the Harpers themselves...
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 02:54:32
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Reefy, I could actually see Zhents trading political prisoners with the Harpers. After all, the Zhents and Harpers do have secret dealings, shown in Elfshadow when Arilyn sneaked into the Citadel of the Raven to meet with this particular captain.
The Zhents would probably torture the Harper prisoner first, get anything useful, and then contact the Harpers and ask for a ransom. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 05:42:56
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
The Zhents would probably torture the Harper prisoner first, get anything useful, and then contact the Harpers and ask for a ransom.
I wouldn't agree with that, at least, not completely.
During the portion of Elfshadow where Arilyn is dealing with the Black Network at Darkhold, she does later recall that "any encounter with the Zhentarim should be handled with a sword, not diplomacy and bargaining."
The true strength of negotiation between the Harpers and the Zhentarim, would seem to be based purely on a case-by-case basis. I don't think there is a guiding standard that either side could refer to for precedent.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 05:52:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
An interesting aside to all of this though, would be whether or not the tactics of prisoner treatment among the Moonstars, would be any different to that of the Harpers themselves...
I would imagine that in the Tel'Teukiira, it's decided on a case-by-case basis. Khelben is a lot more ruthless than some Harpers, and the fact that there's a couple of vampire Moonstars does indicate that the group has a bit more of a moral flexibility than the Harpers.
Some members would undoubtedly stick to Harper methods, and indeed, I'd expect that to be the norm. But some members have other methods, and I can see them being used here and there. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 06:03:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some members would undoubtedly stick to Harper methods, and indeed, I'd expect that to be the norm. But some members have other methods, and I can see them being used here and there.
If that's the case, then I doubt the Warriors' Code has little place amongst the field operations of the Moonstars.
Or then again, maybe it does. However, with the increased "moral flexibility" that you mentioned earlier, the code itself has probably been stretched or pulled several times in the past when the individual need required it.
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 09:04:21
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| Vampiric moonstars? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 09:17:59
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That's right.
Cloak and Dagger has the details on some of them. The only one I can recall at the moment is the operative of the Moonstars working in the Vilhon Reach. His name is Asraf yn Malik el Kahaman yi Manshaka. He's a LE vampire, who is also a fighter of 9th level. It is said that he was a former deepcover Harper agent before he died by the bite from a vampire. Since rising as a vampire himself, he has recommitted himself to Khelben and continues to serve his goals through the Moonstars.
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 09:21:47
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| Greetings, it is quite hard for me to believe that a vampire is serving in the moonstars, especially under a Chosen of Mystra.How is it that Khelben can tolerate this, I mean is he not worried that a vampire thirst for blood may overcome his/her control over his/her bloodlust and atack innocents? |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 09:39:53
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I don't think it is that hard to believe.
Afterall, Khelben allows Moonstar agents to ensure the theft of powerful relics and other artifacts in an effort to reapportion them to who he believes would be the most appropriate.
And recall also, that Manshaka served the Harpers to begin with, so he at least already had some degree of committment to Khelben before the schism. However, I do remember something written in Cloak and Dagger that suggested that the reasons for Manshaka's choice to remain with the Moonstars were unknown.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 14:11:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That's right.
Cloak and Dagger has the details on some of them. The only one I can recall at the moment is the operative of the Moonstars working in the Vilhon Reach. His name is Asraf yn Malik el Kahaman yi Manshaka. He's a LE vampire, who is also a fighter of 9th level. It is said that he was a former deepcover Harper agent before he died by the bite from a vampire. Since rising as a vampire himself, he has recommitted himself to Khelben and continues to serve his goals through the Moonstars.
The other one wasn't named. He's mentioned under the Calimport entry. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 14:14:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Greetings, it is quite hard for me to believe that a vampire is serving in the moonstars, especially under a Chosen of Mystra.How is it that Khelben can tolerate this, I mean is he not worried that a vampire thirst for blood may overcome his/her control over his/her bloodlust and atack innocents?
Keep in mind Khelben's nature, too. He's more of an "end justifies the means" person than the other Chosen of Mystra. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 02:07:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The other one wasn't named. He's mentioned under the Calimport entry.
Ah yes, that is the other one  .
I wonder what we'll learn about the Moonstars, that is, if they are to be included in CoV...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 02:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The other one wasn't named. He's mentioned under the Calimport entry.
Ah yes, that is the other one .
I wonder what we'll learn about the Moonstars, that is, if they are to be included in CoV...
I truly hope so... The Tel'Teukiira is my fave Realms power group.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 02:29:43
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They do have a certain charm about them, don't they .
And Khelben's general attitude towards their operational parameters means that most of the time, the Tel'Teukiira sit on the razor's edge between what is generally considered (by most) to be good, and what is generally considered (by most) to be evil.
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Harper attitudes to prisoners
