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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Mar 2005 : 20:41:08
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Curious how people statistically alter a dragon that is being effected by the Rage?
In my campaign the PC's are going to encounter a black dragon being effected by the rage. I was thinking about having it go into a barbarian rage when exposed to blood. +4 STR, +4 CON, +2 Will, -2 AC. Cannot cast spells while raging.
How does this sound?
Also, would you allow the use of Breath Weapon during a rage?
What are some other ways people have played them statistically?
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2005 : 21:02:37
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Well, I like the parallel you've drawn between dragonic and barbarian rages, but I think with dragons it goes further. There should be a penalty to Int, Wis, and Cha as well. They are no longer able to think clearly, so wouldn't be as cunning as normal, and be prone to less-than-wise attacks, probably similar to the all-out attack action. Also, their personality would be altered, leaving them less able to sway opponents reactions any way but toward fear. So I think they would also emit a stronger fear aura.
Yes, they would be very apt to use their breath weapons, as this allows them to cause as much damage as possible |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 01:56:16
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Having briefly experimented with this is the past, I have some, er…field data on the subject.
I'm not familiar with why this would be a spoiler, so I don't know exactly what you mean, but I'll tell you what I have done:
I simply added a few levels of barbarian to a red dragon. The next jump in age category was too much for the party (6 of them) but a few character levels weren't that big of a deal.
In addition, I was thinking that because the breath weapon was the ultimate display of power from a dragon, that it might be enhanced by the rage as well.
(My thinking was as follows: All dragons have destructive breath weapons: you never see a dragon with a breath weapon that is a Cone of Giggly Ticklishness or Blast of Erotic Massage; they are all offensive, with one or two defensive ones tossed in there. A raging dragon should be able to channel this destructive power during a rage.)
My first idea was to use the structure provided from meta-magic feats (enlarge, maximize, etc) with the breath weapon. However, testing this often killed the party in simulations. What I ended up doing was just tossing in an extra dice.
A rage that duplicates a barbarian rage seems fair. A rage that does the same, but also lowers their mental stats and makes them less likely to use tactics ultimately weakens the dragon. If that's your goal (Dragons are easier to kill) then fine. But if you're looking to make the dragon even more fearsome in their rage, then I'd double or triple the stat bonuses to the physical stats, and provide full immunity to mind affecting spells.
For the record, in my experiment, it was a tough fight, and the cleric got crunched up, the fighters were severely hurt, the monk was squished to goo and the rogue suffered no damage at all.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 03:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I'm not familiar with why this would be a spoiler, so I don't know exactly what you mean, but I'll tell you what I have done:
The reason I said possible spoiler is because I wasn't sure what people would reply with. The Year of the Rogue Dragons trilogy details dragons in rage and I didn't know if people would reply with examples from the books, so, to be safe I added the spoiler statement.
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
A rage that duplicates a barbarian rage seems fair. A rage that does the same, but also lowers their mental stats and makes them less likely to use tactics ultimately weakens the dragon. If that's your goal (Dragons are easier to kill) then fine. But if you're looking to make the dragon even more fearsome in their rage, then I'd double or triple the stat bonuses to the physical stats, and provide full immunity to mind affecting spells.
I do like the idea of lowering mental stats and making them less likely to use tactics because that is how the dragons appear in the novels when being effected by the rage. Although, I really don't know how that should effect their CR. They become much weaker in terms of spell casting but they gain Hitpoints and attack prowess. If it does make them less challenging overall it's not by much.
Thanks for the input though. I'm curious as to why the Rage would add levels of Barbarian or give them enhancements to their breath weapons? Was there any mention in the books about their breath weapon becoming more potent?
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 03:22:55
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Ah, I see. It's from a book I haven't read.
All the information I gave you has nothing to do with the books or information you are referring to, it's just stuff from my game that I made up. Including the stuff about adding levels of barbarian and increasing the breath weapon. It's nothing from any offical source.
Sorry for the confusion.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 04:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
(My thinking was as follows: All dragons have destructive breath weapons: you never see a dragon with a breath weapon that is a Cone of Giggly Ticklishness or Blast of Erotic Massage; they are all offensive, with one or two defensive ones tossed in there. A raging dragon should be able to channel this destructive power during a rage.)
You missed the faerie dragon (and my friend Sylvanizard is mad!) They posess a breath weapon that takes the form of euphoria gas. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 04:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
You missed the faerie dragon (and my friend Sylvanizard is mad!) They posess a breath weapon that takes the form of euphoria gas.
Oops, sorry about that. But, you have to admit, Faerie dragons don't scream out "earth-shattering Rage!".  |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 04:48:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Oops, sorry about that. But, you have to admit, Faerie dragons don't scream out "earth-shattering Rage!".
I was actually gonna write a short story about the faerie dragons raging.  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 05:09:37
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| Great! haha! When you do, make sure I see the link, okay? I'd love to read it. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 05:23:35
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| You got it. For starters, try the story I have posted here on Candlekeep. It's linked in my sig. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 12:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
In addition, I was thinking that because the breath weapon was the ultimate display of power from a dragon, that it might be enhanced by the rage as well.
I don't see this. It's like getting stronger just because you're mad... That only works if you're the Hulk. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 16:16:12
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Are dragons, in a purely physical sense, so powerful that, without tactics or spell casting, they still pose a significant threat to major cities and other placesd where dwell powerful spell casters and heroes?
In times past the Witch of Shadowdale died destroying a raging dragon. If it was, for all intents and purposes, just a big dumb dinosaur, then it seems to me she would have accomplished this without loss of her own life. Of course, stranger things have happened and happen all the time. Maybe it got lucky.
I'm not sure how I would represent the Rage in game terms. I haven't gotten my hands on Book II quite yet, but between the book I have read and other FR products that mention the Rages the specific effects of the rage are not specified.
It makes dragons want to kill. Check. And it supposedly weakens them significantly. Check. But, it doesn't weaken them so significantly that an extremely powerful wizardress didn't have to give up her very life in a titanic battle with ONE.  |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
Edited by - Beowulf on 29 Mar 2005 16:20:29 |
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Taelohn
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 20:09:51
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| Well, she was alone, and it must've been a powerful one... a great red wyrm, as I recall. Perhaps similiar in power to Balagos or Klauth?... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 23:50:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Taelohn
Well, she was alone, and it must've been a powerful one... a great red wyrm, as I recall. Perhaps similiar in power to Balagos or Klauth?...
We also don't know much about that battle... There's nothing to say that she hadn't previously expended all of her spells battling other dragons, or that this one wasn't a powerful spellcaster in his/her own right.
I suppose someone will have to pop over and ask Ed for more details.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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AraznBlair
Learned Scribe
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2005 : 21:51:39
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For some reason I seem to remember that Selune died fighting a flight of raging dragons (not just one) and she defeated them by destroying a magical staff, using that destruction to kill not only the dragons but herself. I can't remember where I read that, if it was in the Shadowdale book or pieces from multiple books.
I too would be interested in how the Rage works as I am starting a campaign in Damara which takes place after book 2. I see the Dragon rage more as a loss of direction or berzerk stage. The Dragons can still use their breath weapons and inante ablilities but do not think about how to use them tactifully. A Raging Drake might expend all his spells at one specific target only to be taken down afterwards. Or use it's breath weapon against the pesky paladin, when said paly is really an illusion. |
Arazn Blair
Fightermage Extrodinare |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2005 : 22:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by AraznBlair
For some reason I seem to remember that Selune died fighting a flight of raging dragons (not just one) and she defeated them by destroying a magical staff, using that destruction to kill not only the dragons but herself. I can't remember where I read that, if it was in the Shadowdale book or pieces from multiple books.
The death of Sylune Silverhand in a Flight of Dragons in 1356 DR is covered in both Heroes' Lorebook and The Seven Sisters. |
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Raging Dragons (possible spoilers)
