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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  08:34:24  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend


Do you also have trouble when characters invoke Bigby's Air Guitar, Richard?




Hey, he stole my spell!

Why do I get a sudden urging to go and reread Spellsinger by Dean Foster.
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Karzak
Learned Scribe

196 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  13:53:35  Show Profile  Visit Karzak's Homepage Send Karzak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by James P. Davis

Warrior 2: "Fool? Thine momma'!"


DEMETRIUS
Villain, what hast thou done?

AARON
That which thou canst not undo.

CHIRON
Thou hast undone our mother.

AARON
Villain, I have done thy mother.


^_^
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe

Canada
434 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  14:34:44  Show Profile  Visit Afetbinttuzani's Homepage Send Afetbinttuzani a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak

quote:
Originally posted by James P. Davis

Warrior 2: "Fool? Thine momma'!"


DEMETRIUS
Villain, what hast thou done?

AARON
That which thou canst not undo.

CHIRON
Thou hast undone our mother.

AARON
Villain, I have done thy mother.


^_^


DEMETRIUS (advancing and drawing his sword)
Come, brother CHIRON, methinks tis time to open a barrel of whoop ass.

Afet bint Tuzanķ

"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  14:52:56  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by James P. Davis

Warrior 2: "Speaketh thou to my hand."



I SO want this for a Gen Con t-shirt......

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe

Canada
434 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  15:06:23  Show Profile  Visit Afetbinttuzani's Homepage Send Afetbinttuzani a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by James P. Davis

Warrior 2: "Speaketh thou to my hand."



I SO want this for a Gen Con t-shirt......

Steven



The fact that its incorrect, that the imperative would actually be "Speak thou to my hand", makes it all the better . Seriously, I've never been to Gen Con, but surely there will be a t-shirt maker/seller or two there who could make a killing on this if you were to pass on the idea ahead of the Con.
Afet

Afet bint Tuzanķ

"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham

Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 25 Apr 2008 15:12:32
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  16:27:22  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani


I agree. Young readers particularly are probably not so quick to notice anachronisms. And the idea in the Realms novels and products is not to closely imitate Medieval Europe. The idea is to believably create the feel, the tone, the look of a world that happens to be at roughly the same state of social and technological development as Earth around around 600 years ago.


Understood, but to expand on the example you used, I think the Realms is the type of setting where it's likely that people would think of heroes as being "made" or "shaped", not just born (in fact, I detest the idea of a "born hero", but that's another topic altogether).

The most erudite of readers probably don't know the origins of all possible expressions that people might use, and even if they are "modern", who's to say they are unacceptable? For example, RLB mentioned the expression "the point of no return." I don't think it's unfathomable that such an expression might have been created in a world with no modern aviation. As such, I don't find it jarring.

Like I said, everyone has different levels of tolerance.

quote:
Still, I think you'll agree that many modern expressions are out of place in the Realms. Even my eleven year old would be bothered if a Realms character were say something like "get outa my grill, yo!"



Of course, I agree with that. But expressions that bother you might not bother me, and vice versa.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Apr 2008 16:28:31
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe

Canada
434 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  17:49:00  Show Profile  Visit Afetbinttuzani's Homepage Send Afetbinttuzani a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I think the Realms is the type of setting where it's likely that people would think of heroes as being "made" or "shaped", not just born (in fact, I detest the idea of a "born hero", but that's another topic altogether).

Good point. Although the Realms is technologically based roughly on medieval Europe, the novels are fantasy, not history, written and read by people who believe in very un-medieval notions like human equality, individual rights, self-actualization and so on.

To get a more realist "historical" feel for how filthy, disease ridden, bigoted, classist, chauvinistic, oppressive and unscientific life might have been in medieval Europe (by our standards of course), I suggest the "Mathew Bartholomew Chronicles" by Susanna Gregory. This is a gritty but fun murder mystery series set in 14th century Cambridge. The first book "A Plague on Both Your Houses", takes place just before the Black Plague hits the British Isles. If you“re a stickler for cleanliness, these books will make your skin crawl.

quote:
The most erudite of readers probably don't know the origins of all possible expressions that people might use, and even if they are "modern", who's to say they are unacceptable? For example, RLB mentioned the expression "the point of no return." I don't think it's unfathomable that such an expression might have been created in a world with no modern aviation. As such, I don't find it jarring.
[...] expressions that bother you might not bother me, and vice versa.


I agree, completely.
Afet

Afet bint Tuzanķ

"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham

Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 25 Apr 2008 18:02:55
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James P. Davis
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
244 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  19:56:03  Show Profile  Visit James P. Davis's Homepage Send James P. Davis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

quote:
Originally posted by James P. Davis

Warrior 2: "Speaketh thou to my hand."



I SO want this for a Gen Con t-shirt......

Steven


LOL!

Now I'm picturing a t-shirt with lists of medieval 'thine momma' jokes too (i.e. "thine momma is so corpulent...").

Either way, as my first silliness likely showed, I'm not too well studied on the subject of archaic language usage, so I avoid it in my writing as well. Coincidentally, I wasn't too great at ancient poem structures also until I decided to get all poetic in The Shield of Weeping Ghosts and did several dozen rewrites for an important bit of epic-song to get it just right. It turned out well in the end, but I will reconsider my 'neat idea' the next time I feel an urge to 'beowulf' come along.

--James

"Everybody is a book of blood; wherever we're opened, we're red."--Clive Barker

FR: RotD2:"Possessions"
Wizards:Bloodwalk
Citadels: The Shield of Weeping Ghosts
Wilds: The Restless Shore
Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep: Circle of Skulls (May 2010)
Book trailers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC-ska7ohVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfvFdQ8bLp0
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  21:14:06  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani


To get a more realist "historical" feel for how filthy, disease ridden, bigoted, classist, chauvinistic, oppressive and unscientific life might have been in medieval Europe (by our standards of course), I suggest the "Mathew Bartholomew Chronicles" by Susanna Gregory. This is a gritty but fun murder mystery series set in 14th century Cambridge. The first book "A Plague on Both Your Houses", takes place just before the Black Plague hits the British Isles. If you“re a stickler for cleanliness, these books will make your skin crawl.


I am! Thanks for the recommendation.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5041 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2008 :  23:09:05  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heh. What's so amusing about that snippet of Ed's Swords Prologue that Afet quoted, is that Ed clearly meant it as a joke. (If I recall rightly, there was a later line that read something like "Cheaper they be, by the ten-and-two" or "by the dozen.")
I know a reader can't tell that from the way it ended up in print, after editing. Seems the editor didn't want the joke to stand.
Ah, well.
Interestingly, years and years ago at a Worldcon (the World sf convention, not World Fantasy), Ed was on a panel with L. Sprague deCamp, Lin Carter, et al (Jack Vance? Roger Zelazny? Memory fails me) for four glorious hours of "how to impart a quasi-medieval feel to quasi-medieval fantasy without tripping readers' too-modern/too-anachronistic/too-inaccurate-for-real-world-historical-English alarms" [or alarums, if you prefer].
I can assure you that Ed knows how, AND when not to.
The 'out' he gave himself for the Realms is the conceit that Elminster has travelled back and forth between the real world and the Realms, played with language, picked and used what he liked and in the process 'salted' the language of both places (because he bobbed around so much, for so long), and so 'real world' expressions might well pop up in the Realms because Elminster grinningly put them there.
Here are the difficulties, though: from the beginning Ed has been under pressure to avoid archaic dialogue. Which to some editors, down the line, has meant: have characters talk like trendy modern Americans, all the time ("Yup" and "Nope" were heavily used in the original turnover of a certain early Realms novel, until Ed complained loudly), and: invent alternative swear words so as not to offend teachers/parents/buyers for certain bookstores and store chains.
Jim Lowder has told the tale of his early work at TSR (pruning Ed's archaic dialogue in Spellfire down to a few "ye" and "'tisn't" and the odd "mayhap" but never "methinks"), and in retrospect, Ed agrees that the approach taken was best. (As to why Ed was doing it differently before then: why not? It was HIS world, to present exactly as he liked, after all.) The problem is of course that what jars a reader is different for every reader. Modern slang does it every time, for me - - but I also recall wading through Middle English prose many times during my university days (and I know Ed had to, too), and a fiction writer is after all trying to tell a story that readers can hopefully understand . . .
Interestingly (I know Eric Boyd used to enjoy this game), in elder days Ed used to deliberately sneak many archaic English words into his novels, where meaning would be clear from context to the non-scholar, but to send some editors scurrying to look things up. Incidentally, Peter Archer, former head of Books at Wizards, was a medieval scholar and former university professor, and used to chuckle often at what found its way into Ed's manuscripts. (A lot got edited back out before we all saw them, I'm afraid.)
As for thy offered "mother" dialogue, Karzak:
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 25 Apr 2008 23:12:03
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Karzak
Learned Scribe

196 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2008 :  01:44:36  Show Profile  Visit Karzak's Homepage Send Karzak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


As for thy offered "mother" dialogue, Karzak:
love to all,
THO



I've no idea why some people find Shakespeare boring and stiff. That whole "YOUR MOM!" exchange I quoted from Titus Andronicus (admittedly not a popular play, but what the hell) always sends me giggling like a loon, because I'm just that immature.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2008 :  05:22:59  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lady Hooded One, please remind Ed that he can "throw the book at" any Wizards editor ... if it's the so-called King James Bible. Never mind Shakespeare, for the nonce -- a great percentage (if not a large majority) of Americans and Canadians and Britons and English-speaking Africans (and maybe a few Australians and Kiwis, too) are quite capable of understanding the English of 1611. If a few extra consonants are added to each word, even the Irish are quite capable of comprehending it.


(I add, as an aside, Dear Lady, that I know that you are well aware that I know the difference between "may" and "can." "Should," alas, would bring down Alaundo's wrath upon me!)



I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2008 :  05:38:48  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True to my pledge of earlier this week, today I ordered several anthologies of fiction for Warhammer, Wraith: the Oblivion, Mage: the Ascension, and other game settings. Most of them contain stories by at least one writer whom we might well call a "Realms writer." Richard Lee Byers springs readily to mind, he having written books for several different series, not all of which interest me, but he may at least rest assured that he'll gain the occasional nickel royalty from me, even if I refuse to buy anything of his which reeks of Realms.New.Coke.


I'll go myself one better: if "a Realms writer" sends me a reviewer's copy of a book written for another fantasy game, I shall endeavour to review the same on Amazon and perhaps one or two other appropriate places. (I suppose you'll expect me to review all of the Realms books which I have already purchased -- on my own dime -- but that is one of the few luxuries of spending my own money on books: I don't feel obliged to review them, having already voted with my wallet!)



I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe

Canada
434 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2008 :  05:49:31  Show Profile  Visit Afetbinttuzani's Homepage Send Afetbinttuzani a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Lady Hooded One, please remind Ed that he can "throw the book at" any Wizards editor ... if it's the so-called King James Bible. Never mind Shakespeare, for the nonce -- a great percentage (if not a large majority) of Americans and Canadians and Britons and English-speaking Africans (and maybe a few Australians and Kiwis, too) are quite capable of understanding the English of 1611. If a few extra consonants are added to each word, even the Irish are quite capable of comprehending it.


Amen! But alas "the way of a fool is right in his own eyes" (Proverbs 12:15 KJV). Sadly, "As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly" (Proverbs 26:11 KJV)
Afet

Afet bint Tuzanķ

"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham

Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 26 Apr 2008 05:54:27
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Rosemary Jones
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
148 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  06:17:15  Show Profile  Visit Rosemary Jones's Homepage Send Rosemary Jones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


invent alternative swear words so as not to offend teachers/parents/buyers for certain bookstores and store chains.




Ah, an explanation for one of my most cherished e-mails from an editor: "There is no crap in the Forgotten Realms."




Rosemary Jones
www.rosemaryjones.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  17:17:45  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rosemary Jones

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


invent alternative swear words so as not to offend teachers/parents/buyers for certain bookstores and store chains.




Ah, an explanation for one of my most cherished e-mails from an editor: "There is no crap in the Forgotten Realms."







Actually, that's more due to a real-world-ism, methinks.

After all, if Thomas Crapper doesn't exist in the Realms to invent the toilet, "dung" or other less pleasant words never gets renamed in honor of the man most associated with it.

Still, you're right--great email.

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14014 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  18:29:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A question, based on some of the excellent dialogue read here -

Jamallo Green mentioned The King James Bible. Now, Elminster is just one of several powerful Faerūnians who have been to Earth (I know the Simbul has, and I believe Khelben has as well). We also have several entire races (like the Mulan) that were supposedly transported from Earth (nothing canon, methinks, but hinted at profusely) to Toril.

Presumably, El has seen 'The Bible', and I'm sure on more then one occasion he has 'transplanted' literature from one world to another. As an intersting aside, I wonder if any planes-hopping wizards have ever made money by 'writing' a book on one world that he/she really 'stole' from another. That would mean that Shakespeare could very well appear in the Realms, slightly modified and with a different author (I believe in the ST series, Shakespeare's works were attributed to an early Klingon author by the Klingons, just as an example of how this has occurred in other 'shared worlds').

That, however, is not my question (I have a lot of trouble staying on-task). What I was really wondering is what would be Elminster's take on The Bible, and how would Faerūnian scholars treat it, if it were to appear someplace like Candlekeep?

If this is too controversial, I understand totally. I'm a Christian but also EXTREMELY open-minded about such things. I was just toying with the idea of a missionary from Earth discovering El's portal in Yellowstone, and using it to bring 'the word of God' to the heathens on the other side, and how the average person of Toril would take such a thing (not to mention the local deities).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Apr 2008 19:13:27
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30201 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  19:02:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed has spoken more than once about how folk of the Realms actively worship a variety of deities in their day-to-day life, and how it's a known fact those deities exist.

With that in mind, I doubt any monotheistic religion is going to gain very many followers -- especially when a cleric wanders by and says, "Oh, you call that a miracle? That was one of the first prayers we learned!"

The "take it on faith, because that's all the proof you need" aspect of Christianity wouldn't stand up too well in a world where any of the established deities could physically show up and shake your hand, either.

And that's not even taking into account whether or not Ao would allow any specific non-Realms deity in, or how the deities of the Realms would react to an interloper deity. A monotheistic religion would be a threat to every deity of the Realms.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Apr 2008 19:04:49
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14014 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  19:26:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Once again, we may be steping 'over the line' of what folks consider 'polite conversation', but if the Bible were to be taken as the 'literal truth', then the deities of Toril would just be extremely powerful beings (like Archfiends, but only moreso), and not truly 'gods'. If such is the case, then Ao would just be one of God's many 'caretakers', and would have no way of actual stopping his worship from entering the sphere.

But thats only if you take it as the TRUTH, and not as just another set of 'mythology', in which case you could bend the rules anyway you like - like saying that Ao is the equal of GOD, and that our Monotheistic God (Christian/Judaic/Islmaic) has just 'demoted' all the other 'Powers' in Earth's Crytal Sphere to Archfiends and Archangels.

In truth, it really all works out the same... and it it even fits in with some of 4e's 'core concepts'. There are only gods, demigods (the Arch-Outsiders and Saints), and some other beings above gods... I forget the name (Primordials?). D&D 'deities' seem to have been demoted from 3e, to be more like the 'Powers' they were in 2e. In fact, because the way they are treating them, the 'gods' are being set up as challenges for Exarch-level characters, which makes them much more like immensley powerful immortal beings... but NOT gods.

Anyhow, without getting into all the metaphysical stuff, I was just wondering how folks in Faerūn would look at the Bible - another religion, or a work of fiction?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Apr 2008 19:28:55
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  19:55:06  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My thinking is that it would be treated just as early christianity was treated...or judaism for that matter: a localized "cult" with little significant impact.

Early Christians weren't really attacked because of their own beliefs so much as their denouncement of already established faiths. Yelling out on the street that Saturn is a False Idol and not a true god may very well get you beat down!

So in the Realms, if a man stood in front of the temple of Bane and yelled that Bane was a false god...well, while the Edict against Direct Divine Intervention MAY spare him from Bane himself...I imagine a junior priest being sent outside to drag the man in for sacrifice would not be a good situation for the missionary.

If instead, a missionary started co-opting the holidays of the various "pagan" gods into his own religion and simply telling the other faith's priests that they "didn't have the whole truth...Jehovah is the creator of the universe and even Ao only his servant" then they might have better luck.

All just conjecture and guessing though on my part...

Nothing to see here...move along now...

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 29 Apr 2008 20:02:44
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Karzak
Learned Scribe

196 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  22:06:09  Show Profile  Visit Karzak's Homepage Send Karzak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Anyhow, without getting into all the metaphysical stuff, I was just wondering how folks in Faerūn would look at the Bible - another religion, or a work of fiction?



I imagine most Realms inhabitants would find Christianity - with all its tenets (say, no premarital sex, suffer no witch to live, etc), mythology and the rest - both bizarre and ridiculous. Servants of evil deities would probably find it particularly hilarious to kill the missionary slowly while asking them "Ahahaha, where're your healing spells?" In a place where divine entities manifest themselves as a matter of course, and where their clergies are given concrete power, a faith that relies on some abstract concept of "salvation" and such would have little appeal, and even less meaning (not to mention that the whole "JESUS DIED FOR YOOOOU" thing relies on you believing in the whole original sin schtick, and requires a historical basis, ala Rome et al). It has little meaning enough to a great deal of people in our world, and we don't even have magic.

And in any case, I suspect most people would rather not have evangelizing in their roleplay.

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

If instead, a missionary started co-opting the holidays of the various "pagan" gods into his own religion and simply telling the other faith's priests that they "didn't have the whole truth...Jehovah is the creator of the universe and even Ao only his servant" then they might have better luck.


And you think those priests wouldn't take offense to such a statement? Especially when it's not backed up by a show of divine power? Come on, now.

Edited by - Karzak on 29 Apr 2008 22:15:46
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2008 :  23:35:54  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

If instead, a missionary started co-opting the holidays of the various "pagan" gods into his own religion and simply telling the other faith's priests that they "didn't have the whole truth...Jehovah is the creator of the universe and even Ao only his servant" then they might have better luck.


And you think those priests wouldn't take offense to such a statement? Especially when it's not backed up by a show of divine power? Come on, now.



Some would...but then that is exactly how the early church established itself among "pagans" everywhere.

As for a lack of "miracles" for the Missionary to back himself up with...then we get too much into real world Faith versus Scientific Fact and such...and that indeed would be "stepping across the line" on this sort of forum.

BUT...since we are talking about a Fantasy World, my guess is the Pseudo-Christian/Judaic Missionary WOULD have spells to back himself up. You know...the whole "Plagues upon your Kingdom" and parting the waters, raising the dead, healing the sick, Crosses in the sky before big battles to ensure victory, world-wide floods and such...

But again, that is just my belief...yours may surely vary.

EDIT NOTE: I got hit by a fit of sarcasm...I've removed it. My sincere apologies.

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 30 Apr 2008 01:12:26
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30201 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2008 :  00:04:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And we're starting to edge into territory that's best left alone. It might be a good idea to simply walk away from this particular topic.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2008 :  02:00:55  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Actually, that's more due to a real-world-ism, methinks.

After all, if Thomas Crapper doesn't exist in the Realms to invent the toilet, "dung" or other less pleasant words never gets renamed in honor of the man most associated with it.

Still, you're right--great email.

Steven



Actually, I have an interesting page on that:

--http://www.snopes.com/business/names/crapper.asp

If the people at Snopes are correct (and I trust them), the word "crap", as used in the scatological sense--has been around for a while, and predates Mr. Crapper (and, Mr. Crapper did not invent the toilet). A quick look on dictionary.com suggests the word has its origins in the 14th century.

Seeing the word "crap" in an FR story wouldn't be jarring to me, as I'm sure the Faerunian languages have some equivalent for the word.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 30 Apr 2008 02:04:56
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

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Posted - 30 Apr 2008 :  17:50:00  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rosemary Jones

Ah, an explanation for one of my most cherished e-mails from an editor: "There is no crap in the Forgotten Realms."


Really? Because clearly said editor hasn't read MY stuff.

(ba-dump-kish!)

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

That would mean that Shakespeare could very well appear in the Realms, slightly modified and with a different author (I believe in the ST series, Shakespeare's works were attributed to an early Klingon author by the Klingons, just as an example of how this has occurred in other 'shared worlds').

We have seen stuff that is *similar* to Shakespearean work. The Realms of the Dragons story featuring the Sembian hero of Black Wolf (all the names are blanking at the moment)--the one who operates the stage plays in Selgaunt--regards an adaptation of a play that is basically King Lear. A very effective anthology story, and one that gets at the heart of what the play is all about, IMO.

But then, I'm sure that given the Realms' size and far more extensive history than that of our own world, similar ideas for stories occurred there as well as here.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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