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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 06:41:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
This will not provide an answer, or should not, such events would have occured before the no 10th level ban was imposed. *shakes head on read back* apparently Lost Empires will reach to the ban and explain why spells more powerful then level 9 (Epic spells) are not 10th level.
Incorrect.
Lost Empires of Faerūn is not a "snapshot" book in the vein of the old Arcane Age series; it's not about adventuring in the past or doing things "the way they once were done." It's about bringing the magic, lore, threats, and legacies of these fallen empires into the modern Realms. The reason it discusses Mystra's Ban at all is because Mystra's Ban--and elven high magic, and mythals and the like--are all a legacy of these dead (or funny-smelling) empires. Part of the book's content is devoted to finding a place for epic spellcasting in the Realms, and bringing it into line not only with the epic rules, but the rich history of the Realms. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 07:20:33
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| Well I certainly hope so. I want a good explanation for it, or I'll continue with my stance on no epic spells in the Realms. (Again, I'll say I dislike epic spells regardless, and if I were DM would probably ban them anyway, but that's aside from the problem with the Realmslore.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 13:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well I certainly hope so. I want a good explanation for it, or I'll continue with my stance on no epic spells in the Realms. (Again, I'll say I dislike epic spells regardless, and if I were DM would probably ban them anyway, but that's aside from the problem with the Realmslore.)
I hope so too!
Speaking as a DM I will not ban epic spellcasting, but knowing my players like I do I doubt very much if they will take epic spellcasting as it's more trouble than its worth sometimes.
But as for me I'll be throwing down epic spells on them like a sum-b when the time comes. |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 16 Dec 2004 13:25:52 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 13:21:27
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| *nods* Will have to wait and see what it says. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 18:20:02
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Bookwyrm,
Divine casters also have thier magic filtered through the Weave unless they are Shadow Weave casters. :) The FRCS and Magic of Faerun both say this but atm I don't have page quotes. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 18:50:59
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Okay that sounds interesting. So if Mystra rather upset with another diety, perhaps could prevent their Clerics from casting spells. Perhaps you can find a citation about how this all works. How magic works is always an interesting discussion after all.
Perhaps the new release will also address this issue, as well.
In certain ways I can see an argument Epic is not a 10th level spell, the SRD and ELH indicates for almost all reasons Epic spells are considered 10th level, it did not say they are 10th level. They however still are more powerful then level 9 spells.
*nods* Chosen discussion ended, though in my mind was an indirect question for Mr. Greenwood about the prolifiration of Chosen. Might have been answered already, that such was not planed any more then the last of the Seven Sisters. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 00:39:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Okay that sounds interesting. So if Mystra rather upset with another diety, perhaps could prevent their Clerics from casting spells. Perhaps you can find a citation about how this all works. How magic works is always an interesting discussion after all.
Page 55 of the FRCS, "The Weave is a conduit spellcasters use to channel magical energy for thier spells, both arcane and divine."
Magic of Faerun also says this or words to that effect.
She can only restrict spellcasters if they are in Realmspace/Toril/Faerun. If they leave to the planes or elsewhere they are no longer under her rules. Ditto for mortals who use the Shadow Weave. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 17 Dec 2004 00:41:35 |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 16:18:08
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| Way off topic but regarding the shadow weave, the more one uses the shadow weave the more one finds it harder to tap the weave correct? I remember reading this but can't remember where. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 00:41:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Way off topic but regarding the shadow weave, the more one uses the shadow weave the more one finds it harder to tap the weave correct? I remember reading this but can't remember where.
I can not find this yet in game design. What I do get is some magic does not work at all, some works better or worst (DC checks). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 10:36:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Way off topic but regarding the shadow weave, the more one uses the shadow weave the more one finds it harder to tap the weave correct? I remember reading this but can't remember where.
That would be how you should describe it in roleplay, but the game aspect is immediate: anyone with the Shadow Weave feat is barred from ever tapping the Weave, ever again. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 11:54:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
That would be how you should describe it in roleplay, but the game aspect is immediate: anyone with the Shadow Weave feat is barred from ever tapping the Weave, ever again.
I keep looking at the feat description and do not see this stated.
In some ways I can understand such a rule, some feats are active all the time (two weapon fighting for example) that can be always accessed, however others (still spell for example) is specifically chosen to be used when one decides to do so.
Of course it still leave open all that magic being cast and not detected by the Goddess of Magic. Espcially when those use the Weave to dispell shadow weave , or are attacked by it. Yes I know logic does not apply to fantasy, but suspension of belief totally makes little sense to me.
I can easily picture a muticlass using shadow weave for one class and weave for another.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 14:54:19
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| Ah, found it. FRCS page 57. "The more familiar a mortal becomes with the shadow weave the more divorced they become from the weave." It says it becomes harder to affect spells worked through the Weave. It does not say "how" exactly. They're also barred from spells with the [light] descriptor. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 15:26:42
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Shadow Weave Magic [General] (PGF p43)
Instead of using The Weave to cast magic (like everyone else), you now use The Shadow Weave.
1. When casting a spell from school of Enchantment, Illusion, or Necromancy, gain a +1 bonus to DC and a
+1 bonus for overcoming Spell Resistance.
2. When casting a spell from the school of Evocation or Transmutation that does not have the [darkness]
subtype, your effective Caster level is one lower.
3. You cannot cast spells with the [light] subtype.
4. You can use magic items that are based on The Shadow Weave.
Insidious Magic [Metamagic] (PGF p40)
Attempts to use Divination spells to detect (i.e., Detect Magic) or reveal (i.e., See Invisibility) your spells by creatures without the Shadow Weave Magic feat require a Caster check to succeed. This bonus does not apply to spell of the Evocation or Transmutation schools.
Pernicious Magic [Metamagic] (PGF p42)
When casting a spell on a creature without the Shadow Weave Magic feat, receive a +4 bonus to overcome Spell Resistance. This bonus does not apply to spell of the Evocation or Transmutation schools.
Tenacious Magic [General] (PGF p45)
Attempts to dispel your spells by creatures without the Shadow Weave Magic feat are at +5. This bonus does not apply to spell of the Evocation or Transmutation schools.
There does not appear to be much limitations.
This though "Instead of using The Weave to cast magic (like everyone else), you now use The Shadow Weave." implies (if not clearly states) the Weave can no longer be used at all to cast spells. It does seem to apply magic items made with Weave or Shadow Weave both can be used. As it does not state can not use normal magic items. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 16:51:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
That would be how you should describe it in roleplay, but the game aspect is immediate: anyone with the Shadow Weave feat is barred from ever tapping the Weave, ever again.
Unless their name is Halaster Blackcloak.  |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 17:38:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
That would be how you should describe it in roleplay, but the game aspect is immediate: anyone with the Shadow Weave feat is barred from ever tapping the Weave, ever again.
Unless their name is Halaster Blackcloak.
Hmm... wasn't there an elven character in the Return of the Archwizards series that used both Shadow Weave and the Weave? I'm not sure coz I haven't read the books but I think it was mentioned somewhere. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 17:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... wasn't there an elven character in the Return of the Archwizards series that used both Shadow Weave and the Weave? I'm not sure coz I haven't read the books but I think it was mentioned somewhere.
Galaeron Nimedhu (sp?). But let's not talk about that trilogy, since it also made all the white hats a bunch of bumbling idiots. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 18:28:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... wasn't there an elven character in the Return of the Archwizards series that used both Shadow Weave and the Weave? I'm not sure coz I haven't read the books but I think it was mentioned somewhere.
Galaeron Nimedhu (sp?). But let's not talk about that trilogy, since it also made all the white hats a bunch of bumbling idiots.
Elvs are part of the Weave ;-)
However Galaeron also indicated that it was getting harder to use the Weave.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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jebeddo
Seeker
Canada
69 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 03:09:52
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| Aye...thus we reached another grey part of the D&D and FR rules. *sigh* |
"Only half-orcs rush in where devas fear to tread." |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 05:33:53
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| Not necessarily. As I said, that's how it should be roleplayed. (And as for Halaster, I'd take that one to mean you have to have Mystra's direct intervention to come back; a simple atonement wouldn't do.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2018 : 18:03:08
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Seeker jebeddo,
As far as I knew, Karsus' Folly stopped all of that in its tracks. However, others here have mentioned that the Simbul and others do have the epic spellcasting feat, so hmm....
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by jebeddo
Hail, fellow scribes of Candlekeep.
In the last few pages of the Epic Level Handbook, there was a list of character stats of FR characters, including Elminster, Storm, and other Chosens of Mystra. What I noticed was that none of them could cast Epic Spells (certainly they more than qualify), whereas a priestess of Auril so detailed could (and she was of a lower level). Is this a restriction on the Chosen of Mystra or something?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Of Chosens and Epic Spells
