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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 19:15:34
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can any one tell me with proof that any of the computer games are canon?
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Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 20:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by richtinIII
can any one tell me with proof that any of the computer games are canon?
The rule of thumb used when I was the Realms go-to guy and general liaison was this: Assume that whatever happened in the computer games to be an alternate Realms UNLESS material from that product was used and/or adapted into a game product produced directly by TSR/WotC. Thus, the first two "gold box" SSI games are mostly canonical, as they were adapted in 1st edition as RUINS OF ADVENTURE and CURSE OF THE AZURE BONDS modules; bear in mind that not everything automatically goes canon, as that first game had some interesting things going on with Alusair that never became solid canon.
In the same vein, there are elements from Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn that are canonical via the VOLO'S GUIDE in that general area by Ed Greenwood. And while I might argue canon with many a Realms author, I only bow to the greater wisdom and good-heartedness that resides in Ed Greenwood. 
Therefore, while all sorts of great stuff lurks in the computer games, I suspect (for sanity's sake, if nothing else) the RPG R&D folks still consider it all non-canonical unless it can be folded into the company's official game product.
Steven Schend
Who thinks that answers the question but will defer to Rich Baker or a WotC staffer more in the current know.... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 20:32:28
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| thanx, that aswered my question quite throughly. So the old games are more canon than the newer games??? |
Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 06:21:57
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| Much more. Of course, even Neverwinter Nights is more canon than Dungeon Hack. I'm still wondering how they slapped the Forgotten Realms logo on that one with a straight face . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 07:17:50
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I defined Canon as "Events that are reflected in the published setting"
The Following Games are definately canon
Pool of Radiance
Curse of the Azure bonds
Evidience: Phlan is now free (It wasnt pre the module) and there is a reference to The Red Wizard of thay who featured in Curse of the Azure bonds in the 3ed FRC
Games that are definately NOT canon
The BG series
There has been no mention of Bhaalspawn or the events of covered in the series, for example there is no mention of a war between Baldursgate and Amn nor was the City of Saradaush razed to the ground in the FRC
NWN series ie The origional, Shadows of Undertide and Hordes of the Underdark
There has been no mention of a plague in Neverwinter, a 2nd Netherese city rising or a large chunk of Waterdeep being razed to the Ground by a maruding Arch devil in any FR publish product.
*note A Waterdeep source book will be published next year and I am will to bet real money that the events covered in Hordes of the Underdark will not be reflected in the source book
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 07:28:45
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Yeah, I'd give you . . . oh, one billion to one-billionth (British scale, of course!) odds on that one. Yeah, sounds more than fair.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Wanderer
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 13:58:11
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| Thanks for the answer, Steven. I've always wondered myself about this particular topic, as some of the events that occur in some games have not been mentioned outside of them (and frankly, some even feel non-realmsian). |
The Wanderer |
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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 14:15:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I defined Canon as "Events that are reflected in the published setting"
The Following Games are definately canon
Pool of Radiance
Curse of the Azure bonds
Evidience: Phlan is now free (It wasnt pre the module) and there is a reference to The Red Wizard of thay who featured in Curse of the Azure bonds in the 3ed FRC
Games that are definately NOT canon
The BG series
There has been no mention of Bhaalspawn or the events of covered in the series, for example there is no mention of a war between Baldursgate and Amn nor was the City of Saradaush razed to the ground in the FRC
NWN series ie The origional, Shadows of Undertide and Hordes of the Underdark
There has been no mention of a plague in Neverwinter, a 2nd Netherese city rising or a large chunk of Waterdeep being razed to the Ground by a maruding Arch devil in any FR publish product.
*note A Waterdeep source book will be published next year and I am will to bet real money that the events covered in Hordes of the Underdark will not be reflected in the source book
thannx Dargoth. i will keep that in mind next time i play |
Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Sentinel
Acolyte
France
3 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2004 : 10:31:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
*note A Waterdeep source book will be published next year and I am will to bet real money that the events covered in Hordes of the Underdark will not be reflected in the source book
you mention money: and I wonder if BioWare guys will empty their pockets to see their HoU Waterdeep tale in the source book? :-) |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2004 : 12:56:59
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Why would they? Thus far, the FR computer games have been blisfully seperate from the realms of books and DnD, with very few problems.
I have noticed a certain degree of elitism, for one, amongst the Old Guard FR fans, against the computer games, for one, and that helps to keep them seperate, as the cranky and judgemental by nature FR fans would no doubt have significgantly sized factions that dramatically oppose any additions to their game world for "no better reason than it was in a videogame" and be a thorn in the side of the company's attempts to market any such material.
For another, the FR content of the games is dubious at best, often developed with not nearly so much involvement from the "canon" developers as I would like, leaving events to go on in the game totally up to the game's developers, and not those in charge of the realms.
I personally think that the system has been flawed to this point. Anything with the FR logo on it, in my eyes, should be as official as anything else, with games for the computer getting the same amount of authoritative input and guidance as any printed adventure, novel, or sourcebook, that way they may be considered official, and be of the same calibre as the aforementioned game books.
I would prefer they all be developed in house, myself, or at least be done with a official from WOTC being on the game development staff, and acting as a liason to bring official word, advice, and information from the FR's core sources, liek Ed, Baker, and any other appropriate authors. But until something drastic happens, we will in all likelyhood continue seeing games that end up being considered the "What If?" of the realms, continuing to mislead and dissapoint the new fans they bring to the setting when they delve deeper.
It is this very thing that bothers me the most, new FR fans come to the setting, with their only experience with it being the computer game, only to find out they are not only generally considered second class citizens, but that the thing that hooked them has nothing to do with the setting.
It is a situation that is neither acceptable, or right, in my eyes. Either make the games canon, or drop the FR logo, because they damn sure don't deserve it otherwise. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2004 : 13:22:27
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Oh Capn... "second-class citizens"  You're so dramatic! 
The way I see computer games: home campaigns where the DM is a programmer and where the player is the game user. Simple as that. No canon issues, just like a regular tabletop game in some dimly lit basement.
If a FR book decide to incorporate game events as canon, then I consider it canon. Otherwise I blissfully ignore it! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6651 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2004 : 05:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Sentinel
you mention money: and I wonder if BioWare guys will empty their pockets to see their HoU Waterdeep tale in the source book? :-)
They can empty all they like, I doubt very much they'll get far.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sentinel
Acolyte
France
3 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2004 : 08:14:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
It is this very thing that bothers me the most, new FR fans come to the setting, with their only experience with it being the computer game, only to find out they are not only generally considered second class citizens, but that the thing that hooked them has nothing to do with the setting.
Second class citizen I was two years ago :-) Hell and steel, I do know what you are talking about. I had to make up for it. The pile of books I went through probably reached up to the tip of the greatsword hanging off a chain from the shoulder of Sentinel Karilus himself. Once I started, however, there was no way that I could stop myself Running the Realms ;-) |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2018 : 17:29:33
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Seeker richtinIII,
I agree with all of the information below regarding keeping what happens in video games, in video games. They are just to driven by entertainment value than actual lore based consistency, in terms of when I played them.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by richtinIII
can any one tell me with proof that any of the computer games are canon?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Canon, or not Canon?
