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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 14 Jul 2004 :  13:14:15  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
No, it's not a funky new title for some Realms-based Dungeon adventure, but it is a question I've been thinking about lately while reading up on this nation in preparation for the new Shining South tome...

Now, onto my question - Whatever became of the wizards in Halruaa who advocated the conduction of experiments in magic? These were the wizards who were driven from the realm shortly after the civil war... The older 2e SS tome, says that they supposedly founded the nation of Thay, but we know that has little truth to it.

So, what happened to them?

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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 14 Jul 2004 :  13:44:18  Show Profile  Visit Capn Charlie's Homepage Send Capn Charlie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe they descended to the underdark, and have been amassing magical lore and power for their triumphant and evil return to the surface in the new sourcebook.

However, that is jst extrapolation off of the pattern Some around here have been seeing.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 14 Jul 2004 :  15:36:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Perhaps they went to Nimbral?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Posted - 15 Jul 2004 :  08:06:10  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd thought about that, but I haven't been able to support it with evidence from the Realmslore.

Perhaps Faraer, or George will have more about this...

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5914 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2004 :  09:27:06  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric noted in Races of Faerun (p.107) that some natives of Halruua migrated to Nimbral "early in Halruua's history". FR16 says that the civil war occurred "five centuries ago" which means that if FR16 is set in the 1350s DR (as it appears to be) then the civil war occurred in the 900s DR. I don't think that the 900s DR count as "early in Halruua's history" given that it was founded before 1 DR by survivors of Netheril.

Thay was founded by the renegade Red Wizards in 922 DR. So, I think it isn't too much of a stretch to say that perhaps the whole breakaway from Mulhorand was engineered by a dissident group of Halruuan archmages who manipulated the Red Wizards into being and formed the magocracy and realm of wizards that they wanted by working through others ... perhaps they exist yet - shadowy figures, working behind the scenes and controlling other supposed leaders of the Red Wizards ... like Szass Tam.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Faraer
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3308 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2004 :  15:27:52  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bravo.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 15 Jul 2004 :  15:36:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very interesting idea, George.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5914 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2004 :  05:11:10  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Very interesting idea, George.



Apparently. Eric and Ed liked it.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe

USA
418 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2004 :  06:59:45  Show Profile  Visit Capn Charlie's Homepage Send Capn Charlie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh man, I just hope that the red wizards current method of expansion and conquest isn't a manifestation of such a demoralizing litttle thayan secret.

I had just finally got a little respect for the bald headed evil freaks...

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2004 :  14:12:50  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Eric noted in Races of Faerun (p.107) that some natives of Halruua migrated to Nimbral "early in Halruua's history". FR16 says that the civil war occurred "five centuries ago" which means that if FR16 is set in the 1350s DR (as it appears to be) then the civil war occurred in the 900s DR. I don't think that the 900s DR count as "early in Halruua's history" given that it was founded before 1 DR by survivors of Netheril.

Thay was founded by the renegade Red Wizards in 922 DR. So, I think it isn't too much of a stretch to say that perhaps the whole breakaway from Mulhorand was engineered by a dissident group of Halruuan archmages who manipulated the Red Wizards into being and formed the magocracy and realm of wizards that they wanted by working through others ... perhaps they exist yet - shadowy figures, working behind the scenes and controlling other supposed leaders of the Red Wizards ... like Szass Tam.

-- George Krashos


Well done, George... this is impressive .

I appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Thank you .

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5914 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2004 :  15:10:50  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well done, George... this is impressive .

I appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Thank you .




No problems, although all I did was effectively "get on board" with your original reference and question. There are lots and lots of linkages that are possible in existing realmslore - despite what some people consider to be the "completeness" of the current, published Realms and perceived lack of elbow room. Everything (including changes from 1E to 2E to 3E) can be explained, usually to the benefit of the setting as it adds layers of complexity.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2004 :  09:17:50  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
No problems, although all I did was effectively "get on board" with your original reference and question. There are lots and lots of linkages that are possible in existing realmslore - despite what some people consider to be the "completeness" of the current, published Realms and perceived lack of elbow room. Everything (including changes from 1E to 2E to 3E) can be explained, usually to the benefit of the setting as it adds layers of complexity.

-- George Krashos


Actually, I realised that when I re-read some of the appropriate passages in some of the 2e tomes. It's not so much a matter of "writing" the material, as it is "finding" the best links between odd references. It's entirely possible for a DM - with a lot of free time, and a little imagination - to form a rich tapestry of Realmslore using the odd references and "linkages" (as you said) as the thread. Of course every DM's interpretation would likely be different, but isn't that the point...?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5914 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2004 :  11:11:15  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Of course every DM's interpretation would likely be different, but isn't that the point...?




That's exactly the point. If the FR work is well thought out, respects "what has gone before" and builds and enhances without invalidating anything or anyone, then it's usually A-Grade FR work. However, we have to keep in mind that creativity is such an individualistic phenomenon that people will differ on approaches and what they like/dislike. Over the course of the published Realms, there have been a few writers/designers whose ideas I haven't liked, while others have seemed to be on exactly "my wavelength". That's not to say that the first group write bad FR stuff, it's just that I prefer other people's approach and interpretation. It's all a very subjective situation!

But good for the strength of the Realms, IMHO.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
33723 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2004 :  17:57:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Actually, I realised that when I re-read some of the appropriate passages in some of the 2e tomes. It's not so much a matter of "writing" the material, as it is "finding" the best links between odd references. It's entirely possible for a DM - with a lot of free time, and a little imagination - to form a rich tapestry of Realmslore using the odd references and "linkages" (as you said) as the thread. Of course every DM's interpretation would likely be different, but isn't that the point...?


I'll agree with this statement... I did the same thing with the Dawn Cataclysm. Though it's been officially stated that they'll not nail down exactly when it happened, there's enough bits here and there to place it between 700 and 714 DR.

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2018 :  16:16:58  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Sage,

An interesting bit from "Serpent Kingdoms", p120:
quote:
Mhairhetel (Small City, 9,782): At the southern tip of the Mhair Jungles lies the City of Renegades. This isolated redoubt is home to outcasts from nations all along the Great Sea. Because ships fl ying any fl ag (or even none at all) are welcome at Mhairhetel’s docks, the city has become a port of call for pirates from Narubel and Yaulazna (the hidden Bay of Pirates in southeastern Halruaa), as well as a haven for slavers and disreputable merchants. The city’s reputation as a pirate port has so far protected it well against attacks from the sea. Hetel Hastalhorn, a prominent Halruaan archmage who
sought to exploit the hidden riches of the Mhair Jungles, founded the City of Renegades in the Year of Banished Wisdom
(–125 DR). Within a year, Hetel had vanished and the settlement was all but abandoned. But every year thereafter, new
immigrants arrived seeking a home far from the lands of their birth, and Mhairhetel slowly grew into a viable city.
For centuries, the yuan-ti tribes of Serpentes have found Mhairhetel useful. Until the recent alliance of the Se’Sehen
tribe with the Rundeen merchant consortium, the City of Renegades offered the only marketplace through which the yuan-ti
could trade with distant lands. Moreover, most humans of the Great Sea lands who are interested in exploring the Mhair
Jungles begin their journeys from this port—a fact that makes them easy to observe and track. However, the yuan-ti have always ensured that one of their own rules the City of Renegades, and that agents of the serpentfolk control all the hidden levels of power. The current ruler of Mhairhetel is Istasfi s Nsaran (NE male pureblood yuan-ti fighter 7), a member of the Jennestas tribe.


This was a real treat for filling in some gaps from such an elusive bit of material from the early years of describing Halruaa.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

No, it's not a funky new title for some Realms-based Dungeon adventure, but it is a question I've been thinking about lately while reading up on this nation in preparation for the new Shining South tome...

Now, onto my question - Whatever became of the wizards in Halruaa who advocated the conduction of experiments in magic? These were the wizards who were driven from the realm shortly after the civil war... The older 2e SS tome, says that they supposedly founded the nation of Thay, but we know that has little truth to it.

So, what happened to them?



Robert McDonell
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Spirit Soaring
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2025 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2018 :  15:40:01  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are two Halruan wizards with fame in wider Realms: Daltim "Flamefist" and Darsson "Spellmaker".
Darsson (Sen Darsson) is the son of an Elder (Darth Malson). He left after finding out his parents got killed by other Elders for stepping out of line too far, and wound up near Ravens Bluff.
Daltim during Gold & Glory time leads the Destroyers, a Halruan mercenary company (they worked in Tethyr, among the other places). Which point at another exit. Though Daltim himself is a loyal Halruan and also heir to an Elder position.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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33723 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2018 :  20:33:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There was also Dwalimar Omen, captain of the Realms Master. And I'm sure there were others, living in relative obscurity.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5914 Posts

Posted - 03 Oct 2018 :  13:30:13  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice to see that it only took 14 years for my ideas re Thay to achieve publishable form. Prolific I am not.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33723 Posts

Posted - 03 Oct 2018 :  15:40:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Nice to see that it only took 14 years for my ideas re Thay to achieve publishable form. Prolific I am not.

-- George Krashos



Quality, not quantity.

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5169 Posts

Posted - 03 Oct 2018 :  16:49:11  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Given that you have single handed my written the history and a detailed account of geography, society, laws, etc for impiltur I would say your writing is more than prolific, and of the highest quality

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2018 :  20:21:14  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Krashos,

hahaha....well good sir, I will have you know, I am a fond enthusiast of your works here on the site and beyond! I prefer to look at it this way: just as Scotch, some things take a while to age to a point where anyone and everyone can appreciate the end result!

This is actually one of the reasons I have gone back to resurrect old discussions: the works done by master's such as yourself and others should not only be recognized again, but discussed further, but used as a springboard to incorporate newer enthusiasts of the Realms into older foundational lore which is vital to a true understanding of this epic world!

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Nice to see that it only took 14 years for my ideas re Thay to achieve publishable form. Prolific I am not.

-- George Krashos


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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