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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2022 : 23:40:10
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It feels like every time I power through 3e’s Underdark supplement I find something I missed on my first dozen readings.
Do we know anything about what the Tumulus is from page 185 that isn’t in this supplement?
To summarize the entry....
1. It’s 100 miles east of Waterdeep but ten miles down which I believe makes it the Lowerdark.
2. It’s appearance is a 2000 foot stone egg who’s top is exposed , I am assuming in whatever cavern it lies within.
3. It has symbols of death scribed all about its surface in languages both known and unknown. Many are magic and deadly glyphs but most of the exposed ones are already discharged.
4. It predates Illefarn and is believed to be a tomb or cemetery.
I’m not going to homebrew an answer until I know it’s otherwise untouched in lore but this would make a great tomb for some primordial of death. Maybe a former rival or enemy of Jergal? Maybe an aspect of Jergal? Something powerful and dead (or undead) must be entombed inside.
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2022 : 01:19:15
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| The stillborn birthsac of an atropal like being that would have come from a primordial like being such as Othea. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2022 : 19:23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
The stillborn birthsac of an atropal like being that would have come from a primordial like being such as Othea.
Love it. It fits the theme for sure. I really do wonder what the author had secretly in mind. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2022 : 19:26:14
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Don't think its from anything else. It does present several problems. "It predates Illefarn" could mean several things, since Illefarn was several different things over the millennia. This could mean it predates the earliest elven location. Or it could mean it predates the most recent kingdom using that name.
Second, the name is kind of redundant with the description. A tumulus is a burial mound, like the barrows of JRR Tolkein. So the description is like, 'the graveyard is thought to be a yard full of graves'.
The description of symbols of death in many languages suggests its either a mass grave from some cataclysm or plague, or perhaps the grave or prison of someone or something that brought great death - a god of death or something like that. It kind of calls to mind the Greygem from Dragonlance.
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2022 : 01:45:15
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To build on what Sleyvas said, it is the birthsac of Othea's and Annam's last offspring. He/She was killed by the poison in Othea. The being that came to be known as Hartkiller was not actually their offspring but someone/something else that took advantage of the situation. That is why "Hartkiller" was a "runt". It was "Hartkiller" (possibly with some help) that moved the 'sac to where it is now to hide it from Annam and the other giants.
That leaves us with who was "Hartkiller"? Was it a primordial that was trying to hide? Was it a flunky of Asmodeus or Jergal to help them with their plans? Was it Othea's last act since she had already known that the poison had killed her child and to what purpose?
Edit: Oh, and the writing on it is to try and keep it dormant. Every few centuries/millennia, a wave of death emanates from it. It is because of the poison that killed it (the poison was that powerful). |
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 17 Oct 2022 01:48:09 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2022 : 15:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
To build on what Sleyvas said, it is the birthsac of Othea's and Annam's last offspring. He/She was killed by the poison in Othea. The being that came to be known as Hartkiller was not actually their offspring but someone/something else that took advantage of the situation. That is why "Hartkiller" was a "runt". It was "Hartkiller" (possibly with some help) that moved the 'sac to where it is now to hide it from Annam and the other giants.
That leaves us with who was "Hartkiller"? Was it a primordial that was trying to hide? Was it a flunky of Asmodeus or Jergal to help them with their plans? Was it Othea's last act since she had already known that the poison had killed her child and to what purpose?
Edit: Oh, and the writing on it is to try and keep it dormant. Every few centuries/millennia, a wave of death emanates from it. It is because of the poison that killed it (the poison was that powerful).
Now, THAT is an interesting take and I kind of like it.
Pursuing it further... looking up the FR wiki on Hartkiller
His mother deliberately delayed his birth because she had made a deal with Annam that he could only return once his son called his name, but she was then poisoned by another of her sons, Lanaxis, and died. When she died, she was in the form of a mountain, and Hartkiller still managed to get out into the open from the "womb cave".
So, Lanaxis killing his mother and thereby this stillborn prevents Annam returning to the world.
But, maybe this birthsac acts LIKE a godstone "body" that would be in the astral? Maybe a human drew upon the power within it to make himself into a divine being and called himself "Hartkiller", created Hartsvale, etc.... and MAYBE "Hartkiller" was a child of Ulutiu's with a mortal woman and thus his alliance with the giant-kin who were also the children of Ulutiu takes on a more interesting twist of Ulutiu's plotting.
Something makes me also think that this birthsac might have some involvement with the creation of the "death giants".
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Death_giant |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Oct 2022 15:36:00 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2022 : 21:16:08
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| This is awesome. Love where it’s headed. So much 3e lore never got past the introductory blurb phase and I think that that is a good thing. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2022 : 02:26:12
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Ok, to continue on with Sleyvas' path for this:
Memnor wanted to overthrow Annam but if he kept having children, this would never happen. Especially the "wonder child" that Othea was pregnant with. So, he was able to convince Lanaxis to give her poison. To be able to affect someone as powerful as Othea, it would have to be a very special poison. On his search for something, he ran across the Shadevari on the Plane of Shadow (where they had been banished to by Selune and Mystryl). He struck a deal with them that he would offer up the "godforce" of Othea's unborn child to them (which they believed would allow them to break free of their forced exile and return to the Prime Material plane) in exchange for the needed poison.
So, the poison was given to Othea and it killed the child, too, as expected. The unexpected distraction of the birth of "Hartkiller" gave Grolantor and Memnor a chance to move the womb-egg containing the deceased giant-god. To get the "godforce" to the Shadevari, Memnor was able to convince Grolantor to send a large portion of his followers into the egg (he was told that would give Grolantor the increased prestige he was looking for). When the hill giants were moved into the "egg" they did absorb the "godforce" along with enough of the poison to allow the Shadevari to pull them to the Plane of Shadow. Unfortuneately, "Hartkiller" had absorbed most of the "godforce" so what came through to the Plane of Shadows wasn't going to be nearly enough for them to break free. What it did do is that the trip to the Plane of Shadow combined with the poison within each giant, transformed them into death giants. They also still have a connection to the "egg" so they can periodically return to the Prime plane, emerge from the "egg" and wreak havok. So, different peoples have tried different engravings on the "egg" to try and keep them in there.
Edit: Made it a bit clearer. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 18 Oct 2022 02:32:40 |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2022 : 02:52:20
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I love the idea of adventurers going off rumors of disease, only to find out it is a death monster that leaves no eye witnesses alive- arriving at unexpected intervals and then leaving. I'd love to see a Plane of Shadows Death Giant square off against an enormous Nightwalker.
"When she died, she was in the form of a mountain, and Hartkiller still managed to get out into the open from the "womb cave"."
This part of the myth seems strange. Isn't there all of human history between Othea dying and Hartkiller getting his debut? Did it take him that long to dig out by hand? Imposter or not, it is strange to me that Hartkiller did not gain any divine title in death for being a founder of a state. One would think the great godly googly moogly would be Hartsvale's Uthgar. Though if he was a minion of someone else, that divine power would probably be harvested on death and the spirit tossed aside.
Underdark (3e) has the Tumulus as a 'Middledark' site, putting it miles underground if not in the Lowerdark as you said. The Sharnlands, even. Hell of a place for it to end up. |
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Edited by - PattPlays on 18 Oct 2022 03:11:01 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2022 : 22:59:02
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Ok, to continue on with Sleyvas' path for this:
Memnor wanted to overthrow Annam but if he kept having children, this would never happen. Especially the "wonder child" that Othea was pregnant with. So, he was able to convince Lanaxis to give her poison. To be able to affect someone as powerful as Othea, it would have to be a very special poison. On his search for something, he ran across the Shadevari on the Plane of Shadow (where they had been banished to by Selune and Mystryl). He struck a deal with them that he would offer up the "godforce" of Othea's unborn child to them (which they believed would allow them to break free of their forced exile and return to the Prime Material plane) in exchange for the needed poison.
So, the poison was given to Othea and it killed the child, too, as expected. The unexpected distraction of the birth of "Hartkiller" gave Grolantor and Memnor a chance to move the womb-egg containing the deceased giant-god. To get the "godforce" to the Shadevari, Memnor was able to convince Grolantor to send a large portion of his followers into the egg (he was told that would give Grolantor the increased prestige he was looking for). When the hill giants were moved into the "egg" they did absorb the "godforce" along with enough of the poison to allow the Shadevari to pull them to the Plane of Shadow. Unfortuneately, "Hartkiller" had absorbed most of the "godforce" so what came through to the Plane of Shadows wasn't going to be nearly enough for them to break free. What it did do is that the trip to the Plane of Shadow combined with the poison within each giant, transformed them into death giants. They also still have a connection to the "egg" so they can periodically return to the Prime plane, emerge from the "egg" and wreak havok. So, different peoples have tried different engravings on the "egg" to try and keep them in there.
Edit: Made it a bit clearer.
That's an interesting method to create the death giants, combining it with shadow and the poison used. It might be interesting if the poison worked like a siphon drawing the life energy of any nearby giants, and it turned the progeny of those giants into death giants as well with the ability to harvest the souls of anyone THEY kill. Maybe THAT is what they shadevari wanted, as maybe over time they actually draw in the spirits of those that the death giants "steal".
We do have some realmslore on death giants related to the fall of Netheril and the "ash giants" of that region making a pact with a being of negative power to become death giants to stave off the life sucking effect of the Phaerimm. So, perhaps there were the "original" death giants and then there is the "second creation" where some giants went to the same place where they heard of giants gaining some power against death... and that place was the tumulus?
Maybe even the spirit of the unborn giant is trapped in the shadowfell and it has become the entity that giants pledge to in order to become death giants. Maybe he is a great, silent being, whose vocal chords have never fully grown.... and the keening of the souls that death giants control has some ties to this being. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 23 Oct 2022 23:23:51 |
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The Tumulus
