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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2021 :  15:40:50  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
https://www.amazon.com/Glaciers-Edge-Way-Drow-2/dp/0063029820/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=1L8SG3ONNW0M8&keywords=Way+of+the+Drow&qid=1636583697&qsid=146-9435724-6450734&sprefix=way+of+the+drow%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-2&sres=0063029774%2C0063029820%2CB09L8CSRGY%2CB07ZNZMJZD%2C1642027774%2CB08HSRT8FS%2C078695986X%2CB0036S4EFU%2CB002DOSBMK%2C0786966246%2C1507216378%2CB086PXNL7D%2C0062688634%2CB000SEIJNI&srpt=ABIS_BOOK

"From New York Times bestselling author R. A. Salvatore comes the follow-up to Starlight Enclave and thrilling second novel in his newest trilogy, The Way of the Drow, expanding the Forgotten Realms through the adventures of Drizzt, Catti-brie, Jarlaxle, Artemis Entreri, and Zaknefein…and a society of drow unlike one any elf from Menzoberranzan could possibly imagine.

There’s a lot that Jarlaxle doesn’t know: is he the lone survivor of the raid on the slaad fortress, can he even find a way to get out, and beyond his immediate predicament, could he possibly escape the ice caverns and get help for his friends?

However, what Jarlaxle does know is that if he plans to come back—if Catti-brie, Entreri, and Zaknafein are to have any hope of surviving—he’s going to have to bring back far more firepower. An army of aevendrow seems unlikely, so he must go home and pull together a team with great skill and unimaginable power.

But how will he get home? Will such a collection of warriors and mages come to his aid? And even if he manages all that, will it be enough? For Jarlaxle has seen the slaadi’s power and their god in a most personal and terrifying way.

Trapped in the ice while the world is on fire, Jarlaxle is in a race against time—and burdened with a magical secret—to save a peaceful city and his companions.

And he’s running out of tricks in his bag of holding…"


Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35689 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2021 :  16:12:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even if I was interested in reading this (which I'm not), this part would make me reconsider:

"so he must go home and pull together a team with great skill and unimaginable power."

Jarlaxle going home sounds like yet another trip to Menzoberranzan, which in my opinion has been done so much it's becoming a trope. It really bugs me how Menzoberranzan has gone from just another drow city, as it was originally described, to being just about the most important place in the Underdark. There are a lot of drow cities I'd love to see more of, aside from Menzoberranzan.

And "unimaginable power"? This sounds like a recipe for MOAR BOOM, which has been very overdone in the Realms... Or it could be that the intention is to do a Superman thing, where someone who basically can't be beat, due to either being overpowered, or protected by plot armor, or both, has to come in, somehow get challenged, and save the day anyway. I've read many comments about how Kimmuriel seems to be unstoppable, so I wonder if he's going to be involved.

I'll readily admit blurbs don't always get it right, and I cannot and will not say anything about the book without reading it -- but this blurb does not make me want to read it, and in fact would discourage me from reading it if I was inclined to.

Your mileage may vary, of course; the Erevis Cale books and the War of the Spider Queen series show that my opinions on Realms novels are not always in the majority and in fact are sometimes very much opposed to the majority.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Nov 2021 16:13:37
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deserk
Learned Scribe

Norway
210 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2021 :  19:30:28  Show Profile Send deserk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Having read the previous book, I don't have that much high hopes for this one. The "aevendrow" are just so lazily designed and uninteresting as hell. And quite honestly they don't fit in the Realms and especially in regards to FR's history and lore.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3591 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2021 :  01:22:55  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really? Maybe there's more to the book than this, but the blurb honestly sounds like your generic "gather the forces and slay the BBEG" D&D campaign. Idk, they aren't even trying anymore. Maybe they think most Drizzt readers will buy regardless, but if that's the case, I hope they're wrong. It's drying to see the fantasy genre devolve more and more into a collection of bland as f**k tropes.

Edited by - Irennan on 13 Nov 2021 00:21:30
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3665 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2021 :  15:17:20  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I like the name. That's something, right?

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35689 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2021 :  17:27:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I like the name. That's something, right?



The name is cool.

That said, only rarely has the title of a book, and the title alone, been enough to make me pick up the book to read the back cover blurb. Off the top of my head, I can only recall that happening once -- The Wrong Dead Guy.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2648 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2021 :  21:56:37  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I knew there was going to be another one, since Starlight Enclave was the first of a new trilogy. But as much as I love Jarlaxle, Zak, Drizzt, and the others, at this point, I'm pretty done with supporting RAS.

Sweet water and light laughter
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2021 :  00:38:37  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm still scratching my head about why Ygorl is holding up there but yeah, same as what others have said.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6332 Posts

Posted - 14 Nov 2021 :  00:53:51  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What is interesting to see is that R A Salvatore kept the stuff he wrote for the Forgotten Realms - Demonstone game, back all the way from the early 2000s and decided he could riff off it for a novel series.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 14 Nov 2021 00:57:37
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TKU
Learned Scribe

USA
110 Posts

Posted - 14 Nov 2021 :  16:55:56  Show Profile Send TKU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe it's a continuation of the game? I poked onto the wiki and it looks like Zhai got a mention as being known by Jarlaxle back in 2006. It's a longshot, but maybe Jarlaxle will give her a call and ask her how she and her buds kicked Ygorl's butt the last time.

I don't really think Salvatore really thinks particularly long-term in regards to laying out the plot to his series, but he certainly will resurrect old, forgotten or abandoned material if it suits his narrative purposes, which I am of two minds on- while I do love to see callbacks to stuff from the past I didn't expect to see again, it's a far cry from GRR Martin painstakingly weaving together his overgrown kudzu plots to try and make every detail come together.

The blurb for the upcoming book is pretty vague and unhelpful for getting an idea of what's actually going to be happening in the book, but perhaps a few things can be gleaned from it nonetheless.

'World on Fire' is a standout there. It sounds like the Slaad are pretty well hidden and more of a regional threat to the Aevendrow that aren't really menacing the rest of Toril at the moment, so I'm not sure what that could be about. Maybe something important, maybe just useless non-descriptive back-of-the-cover fluff.

The phrase 'pull together a team with great skill and unimaginable power' makes me think we won't be seeing a full-scale military escalation involving Menzo (at least yet) although with the emphasis on the 'secret' it makes me think that the cat will be out of the bag in Menzo before long.

So I'm expecting Jarlaxle to gather up some of his men-maybe we'll see some returning characters like Valas or Zhai, he'll return to save the day, but things will kick off in Menzo setting up for the next big showdown. Not much to go on right now though.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3665 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2021 :  01:47:52  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Oh, wow, I forgot he wrote that game. Was a fun little game.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
598 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2021 :  15:10:24  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"...a team with great skill and unimaginable power..." sounds like a no-save sleep spell. The RSE du jour
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1178 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2021 :  23:17:14  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Let's withhold judgment...it could just be forming a party of RAS characters and fighting some big baddy. Standard stuff. Not necessarily any RSE involved.

I hope Kimmuriel isn't the bad guy they fight though. He's always been my fave of Bob's cast, and I like him in the shadows taking over for Jarlaxle when he's off having fun.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35689 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2021 :  03:17:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I hope Kimmuriel isn't the bad guy they fight though.


I was thinking he'd be part of the "team with great skill and unimaginable power." I've read very little with that character, since I stepped away from everything Drizzt a while ago -- but I've read numerous comments here about how he often comes in when MOAR BOOM is needed to provide huge amounts of BOOM.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Nov 2021 03:17:39
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1178 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2021 :  14:46:18  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He's definitely the Deus Ex Machina, mostly because psionic powers are so ill-defined that Bob can have Kimmuriel do whatever he needs at any time.
Erase memories? Check. Teleport anyone anywhere instantly without error? Check. Kinetic energy nuke? Check. Incapacitate an archmage in their own lair? Check.

I'm surprised he can't time travel. That's probably coming next.

Edited by - Seravin on 16 Nov 2021 14:47:05
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Mainmansquid
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2021 :  18:50:12  Show Profile Send Mainmansquid a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm figuring that the book is going to be fairly predictable. Even so, I'm actually looking forward to it. I don't see Menzobarenzan being a big focus in any way in this book. His team will most likely consist of Bruenor, Wulfgar, Regis, Drizzt, Kimmuriel, maybe Kane. I don't see Gromph joining them since he could care less. He still has that Menzobarenzan attitude. Maybe the Braegen Daerthe priestess. Also maybe a Harpell.

Menzobarenzan won't be the main focus until the 3rd book.

As for the book itself, yes the books have gotten more tropey and the power scaling has gotten ridiculous. However, I'm happy to read about different drow cities and cultures other than the drow we've known. It is a recontectualization of the lore, but I find it okay. When the Seldarine war happened, not all the drow went with Lolth. Other drow went other places. We've also only seen a small section of Faerun in the novels, so I'm sure there are other drow cities and cultures outside this small little pocket area.

I hope that at some point the lorendrow will be explored.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3591 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2021 :  20:48:43  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mainmansquid
It is a recontectualization of the lore, but I find it okay. When the Seldarine war happened, not all the drow went with Lolth. Other drow went other places. We've also only seen a small section of Faerun in the novels, so I'm sure there are other drow cities and cultures outside this small little pocket area.



That was already the case in FR lore (and also, in FR the Seldarine wars had absolutely nothing to do with mortal drow). In fact, the problem isn't the existence of other cultures. The problem with RAS' version is that he retcons whole swaths of FR history (no reconceptualization here, he outright retcons stuff), and makes it less nuanced (and far more trivialized) than it already was. Not a surprise, really, given that he and certain WotC dudebros were the culprits of pushing that lore into obscurity, and of bringing forth the Drizzt exceptionalism (which basically is the "good other" trope), as well as the idea that nearly all drow belonged to some stupid evil "culture" (and a gross caricature of what a society would be if women held positions of power).

The situation isn't much better now: either the drow belong to said stupid evil "culture", or they belong to some perfect utopia with infinite resources that runs on "a wizard did it", with no thought whatsoever put into giving it complexity by exploring the consequences of its assumption. One note caricatures in both cases.

Edited by - Irennan on 02 Dec 2021 02:46:02
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2648 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2021 :  22:58:58  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mainmansquid

I'm figuring that the book is going to be fairly predictable. Even so, I'm actually looking forward to it. I don't see Menzobarenzan being a big focus in any way in this book. His team will most likely consist of Bruenor, Wulfgar, Regis, Drizzt, Kimmuriel, maybe Kane. I don't see Gromph joining them since he could care less. He still has that Menzobarenzan attitude. Maybe the Braegen Daerthe priestess. Also maybe a Harpell.

Menzobarenzan won't be the main focus until the 3rd book.

As for the book itself, yes the books have gotten more tropey and the power scaling has gotten ridiculous. However, I'm happy to read about different drow cities and cultures other than the drow we've known. It is a recontectualization of the lore, but I find it okay. When the Seldarine war happened, not all the drow went with Lolth. Other drow went other places. We've also only seen a small section of Faerun in the novels, so I'm sure there are other drow cities and cultures outside this small little pocket area.

I hope that at some point the lorendrow will be explored.



As Irennan pointed out, there has long been nuance to the drow. RAS just likes to conveniently ignores it. He insists Drizzt isn't the only goodly drow, yet ignores established lore that would support his stance, or makes it up, as we are now seeing. He vehemently ignores Eilistraee and Vhaeraun (Vhaeraun is technically an evil deity, but his followers still bring nuance to the drow), even though Eilistraee in particular is proof of goodly drow.

Sweet water and light laughter
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TKU
Learned Scribe

USA
110 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2021 :  05:35:59  Show Profile Send TKU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The single change of making Menzoberranzan the founding city of Lolth's religion and the Udadrow as a whole, a development that's been introduced fairly recently, has actually done a lot to really wreck the idea of drow in 'other places' in Toril, since it unravels a huge part of Drow history and places the canonicity of a lot of the preexisting drow settlements into question in favor of this 'three cities' thing. Hell, it actually kinda throws Dwarven and Elven history in general for a loop to boot.

But yeah, it's not that the series stated goals of bringing nuance to the drow and developing other drow cultures besides that of Menzoberranzan is unwanted in any way...I think the sticking point for myself and other people is that it's not just failing to leverage any of the existing sourcebooks, novels etc outside of what he's been writing, but that there seems to be a deliberate push to completely (or near enough) can the stuff outside of that, with what feels uncomfortably like some historical revisionism.

Which is a shame, because on paper, I think some of the stuff does sound really fun. Salvatore writing about drow cities outside of Menzoberranzan? Sign me up. Jarlaxle assembling a team to take on some special task? Can't wait. Possible callback to the Demon Stone games of all things? I'm intrigued. But I have to admit the aforementioned stuff along with general fatigue with his characters and writing hallmarks and a general dislike of where he's been taking the drow for some time have me less than enthused at the end of it all.
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2021 :  13:33:03  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mainmansquid
When the Seldarine war happened, not all the drow went with Lolth.



RAS retconned drow history so that the Seldarine war never happened. What happened instead was that a bunch of drow were tired of living on the surface and went underground. The end, still a better love story than Twilight, or maybe not.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2021 :  03:15:30  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going to go out on a ledge and predict that Drizzt will face apparently insurmountable odds, spend too many pages contemplating the meaning of life, and repeatedly go into "the zone" and become an unstoppable machine that saves the day. :P
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
817 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2021 :  22:33:25  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I'm going to go out on a ledge and predict that Drizzt will face apparently insurmountable odds, spend too many pages contemplating the meaning of life, and repeatedly go into "the zone" and become an unstoppable machine that saves the day. :P



It does get old. In a sword of truth sort of way.

I still believe in my heart he had Drizzt nuke demogorgon just to piss off us folks on this forum who long laughed at the idea because so many fanboys came on talking about how drizzt could solo combat anyone but Kane, etc and how demogorgon is just a bigger balor.

Edited by - Firestorm on 06 Dec 2021 22:38:38
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1429 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2021 :  19:07:00  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I'm going to go out on a ledge and predict that Drizzt will face apparently insurmountable odds, spend too many pages contemplating the meaning of life, and repeatedly go into "the zone" and become an unstoppable machine that saves the day. :P



It does get old. In a sword of truth sort of way.

I still believe in my heart he had Drizzt nuke demogorgon just to piss off us folks on this forum who long laughed at the idea because so many fanboys came on talking about how drizzt could solo combat anyone but Kane, etc and how demogorgon is just a bigger balor.



Drizzt killing Demongorgon was an editorial requirement of the book. I can't remember the interview, but he said something along the lines of thinking that was nuts and not possible.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
817 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2021 :  20:17:03  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I'm going to go out on a ledge and predict that Drizzt will face apparently insurmountable odds, spend too many pages contemplating the meaning of life, and repeatedly go into "the zone" and become an unstoppable machine that saves the day. :P



It does get old. In a sword of truth sort of way.

I still believe in my heart he had Drizzt nuke demogorgon just to piss off us folks on this forum who long laughed at the idea because so many fanboys came on talking about how drizzt could solo combat anyone but Kane, etc and how demogorgon is just a bigger balor.



Drizzt killing Demongorgon was an editorial requirement of the book. I can't remember the interview, but he said something along the lines of thinking that was nuts and not possible.



Sorry I don't buy that lol.
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