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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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35453 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2021 :  04:10:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

So after reading the Lamordia entry, I am forced to conclude that my expectations were wrong, on this book.

With the SCAG, we got an updated setting -- they moved the timeline forward, and made the necessary changes to accommodate a new ruleset.

With the Eberron book, we got an adapted setting -- no changes to the timeline; we got a new version of a prior book.

This one is neither of those things. It's not giving us a prior version of Ravenloft, modified for 5E. It's not providing updates for a prior version, with a timeline that has moved forward.

Instead, this is a new Ravenloft, disconnected from anything that came before.




Yeah, I thought about adressing this is a reboot, as I was not sure if it was clear when we discussed.


It was not at all clear to me that this was a reboot.

Now that I realize that, I shall be complaining less. I'll not be any happier, but I won't be as vocal about it.

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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3634 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2021 :  16:36:21  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Jander was a really great character -- perhaps my favorite character from the Ravenloft setting.

And because I like the character so much, that's why my headcanon is that he was destroyed in that sunrise he decided to watch. It's not as happy an ending as somehow regaining his mortality or anything like that, but it's a good ending, and a true death is pretty much the best thing anyone in Ravenloft can hope for.


-Same, same. It's a tragic story where almost every time he's in a situation where he needs to make a decision, he makes what we would generally consider the "moral" choice, he is somehow screwed over. Very relatable lol.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
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Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Renin
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2021 :  03:10:08  Show Profile Send Renin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll sound the old grognard here. Anything written about Ravenloft post Swords & Sorcery content in 3.5 is not needed by me. I don't care for any of these changes 'just because.' they choose to use the history of Azalin trying to break prophecy for himself to escape, but then cherry pick and change dark Lords and domains just because? Bah.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35453 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2021 :  03:48:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Renin

I'll sound the old grognard here. Anything written about Ravenloft post Swords & Sorcery content in 3.5 is not needed by me. I don't care for any of these changes 'just because.' they choose to use the history of Azalin trying to break prophecy for himself to escape, but then cherry pick and change dark Lords and domains just because? Bah.



I've got kind of mixed thoughts on this.

As I said before, I'm all about continuity, so I don't care so much if something is changed, so long as there is a logical explanation for how A became B. I'm quite bugged by this being a reboot instead of them actually trying to develop something approximating a story.

That said, there is also the fact that it's Ravenloft -- some aspects of it are pretty much hardwired to be unchanging. Mortal Darklords could grow old and die (assuming the Dark Powers let them), but immortal ones are going to be the same no matter how much the timeline is moved. Strahd will always be lord of Barovia.

And also, as much as I hate to admit it, some of these changes do work. Lamordia is better for moving away from the Frankenstein cliché it was before. Darkon being a broken land is interesting.

If I was going to run a Ravenloft campaign, I'd most likely pick and choose. I'd go with 2E Barovia and Falkovnia, but 5E Lamordia and Darkon, for example.

However, it is quite unlikely I'll ever DM in Ravenloft, for two reasons: I've never even tried DM'ing, and while I find Ravenloft interesting, in general, horror is not my thing. I think if Ravenloft is run right, the best thing players could hope for is to go down fighting, handing the BBEG a devastating defeat -- and maybe, if they're really lucky, even taking the BBEG down with them. I don't mind the idea of characters dying in pursuit of a noble goal -- but I want more than that being the best possible option. Sure, escape from Ravenloft is possible, but it's very difficult, and that, too, is not an appealing story to me: "Okay, your characters have through no fault of their own been dropped into an insanely scary place, so if you work really, really hard and are very lucky, you can go home!"

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Gelcur
Senior Scribe

426 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2021 :  08:25:12  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Running "horror" is not easy. The first few Ravenloft one shots I ran failed, some epically. Then I found the Call of Cthulhu line of RPG products and it really helped me make for a scary and thrilling quest.

I always had intentions of using Ravenloft at some point as a side quest for a Realms campaign but it never came to fruition. Its great if characters need to "break" the rules at the cost that they have to endure Ravenloft. If I remember right Vecna did something of the sort to break the rules of Sigil? I think another domain had a device that could turn back time.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10765 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2021 :  15:46:13  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I have to say, conveying the proper tone in Ravenloft can be really hard, and I've only tried it once when I was maybe 20 years old. Ironically, that was also the first time I used Sleyvas as an NPC (with another group, he was one of my first PC's.... I used him as an NPC because I knew how to play him). It was right after the Time of Troubles came out, and I modified the domain wherein Bane had been forced into a high priest's body in whatever domain it was that had Bane as a priesthood. Sleyvas was his militant arm that the player's faced off against (I think he was still less than 10th level, but dual classed as fighter first for several levels). However, that campaign went WAY off the rails. One of the player's turned from paladin into anti-paladin, embraced the worship of Bane, and turned against the party by joining with Sleyvas in return for power. Back then, I was really on a Bane kick, and was all about "Bane's not dead". Then I started seeing Xvim in a new light.... and gradually I started to realize I liked the idea of Leira not actually being dead a whole, whole lot more.

When it comes to horror fantasy, I guess I much more enjoy reading it than playing it. I could probably get into a well scripted CRPG when I was younger, but probably wouldn't hold me now.

EDIT: Also kind of ironic now that I think upon it, but I've used several instances where I've had players involved with gods on a direct level in weird ways. There was this Bane, in which a player embraced his worship. There was the campaign where I assumed that people didn't know it but Orcus had been cast down during the ToT in Vaasa/Damara (so they played through the "background" of the Bloodstone wars during the ToT as Gareth and company rose to power in other parts of the country). In that SAME campaign, I had players actually meet Velsharoon on his path to ascendance in the astral as they went to face off against some githyanki invading Orcus' astral corpse on orders of their lich queen, but ironically not a single one of them was enough of a realms-o-phile to catch the name drop.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 21 Jun 2021 15:53:44
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
35453 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2021 :  16:51:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For me it's not as much about running it right to get the tone -- it's that I'm not a fan of the tone. Like I say, the setting is interesting, but that's it -- other than a few specific exceptions (Shaun of the Dead, the Ex-Heroes books, couple other things), I don't do horror.

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Diffan
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USA
4217 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2021 :  17:34:36  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to say, I'm woefully disappointed in what I'm reading from the content yinz are talking about. While I've only read a few novels (I, Strhad; Vampire of the Mists; Knight of the Black Rose; Spectre of the Black Rose; & Dance of the Dead) I had really hoped to see some updated elements such as Sithicus (Deadlord Soth's domain) and more info on Barovia but....it's all so underwhelming. Sithicus isn't even a thing, at all (my biggest disappointment) and now they're doing one of my favorite Realms elves dirty......again!!

Nah, not for me

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35453 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2021 :  21:15:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I have to say, I'm woefully disappointed in what I'm reading from the content yinz are talking about. While I've only read a few novels (I, Strhad; Vampire of the Mists; Knight of the Black Rose; Spectre of the Black Rose; & Dance of the Dead) I had really hoped to see some updated elements such as Sithicus (Deadlord Soth's domain) and more info on Barovia but....it's all so underwhelming. Sithicus isn't even a thing, at all (my biggest disappointment) and now they're doing one of my favorite Realms elves dirty......again!!

Nah, not for me



Yeah, I was expecting an update, myself, instead of a reboot.

As I understand it, though, Lord Soth had already exited Ravenloft a while ago -- in-setting, apparently the Dark Powers couldn't torture him any more than he was torturing himself, or somesuch, so he was allowed to escape.

I seem to recall reading, though, that it was because no one talked to Weis & Hickman before tossing Soth into Ravenloft. W eis & Hickman still had plans for him and weren't cool with him being in Ravenloft, so that was quickly undone.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 21 Jun 2021 21:16:29
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10765 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2021 :  00:22:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

For me it's not as much about running it right to get the tone -- it's that I'm not a fan of the tone. Like I say, the setting is interesting, but that's it -- other than a few specific exceptions (Shaun of the Dead, the Ex-Heroes books, couple other things), I don't do horror.



What I will also add is that getting that tone right along with an idea of everyone being accepting of differently looking outsiders just seems at odd with itself. A party with a dragonborn, a tiefling, a half-vampire, and a frankenstein looking person .... it just seems weird to me that the common folk of Ravenloft would not just lynch them on sight out of fear.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 24 Jun 2021 00:23:26
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