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 Candlekeep Mysteries has Theros style Naiads!
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2021 :  01:11:06  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Prior to this book Naiads had one canon reference in FR history and one video hame reference and no stats.

But what is remarkable about the Naiad showing up in Mysteries is that its the exact same stat block as showed up in Mythic Odysessys of Theros. You see MOoT nymphs were inspired by MtG Nymph cards and their abilities translated to D&D stats and influenced by the colour pie philosophy of MtG, not just by there place in Mythology.

Its why Therosan Oreads (Mountain Nymphs) have fire based magic, but not much earth based magic, and why the Naiad in MOoT could cast fly, it was based on this card inspired by MtG philosphy.

https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373719

The card has flying, but also bestow ability that allow it to instead of being a creature, to enchant another creature, in this case granting another creature the flying keyword.

This isn't a complaint, just pointing out that this is the first example of MtG influencing not just D&D, but the Forgotten Realms itself.

This might not be intentional, it simply might not have dawned on them how strong MtGs influence was on this creature.

Thoughts?

Edited by - Gyor on 17 Mar 2021 01:15:00

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11701 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2021 :  17:19:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As to that MtG card being intrinsic to the version in Theros.... guess I'm not seeing it... the card basically enchants a creature with flying and "buffs them". The Theros version on the other hand is a creature with flying, invisibility in water, a psychic attack, and some illusion abilities along with magic and psychic resistance and poison immunity. Is there something more to some other magic card or something that I'm not seeing?

I would relate this to "hey, I need a water fey... look, here's one in this product... I'll use it... it seems balanced". Now, I WILL say that the LOOK of it is definitely a conversion of the naiad in MTG to the naiad in Theros (which makes sense as Theros was MtG and this naiad is from the Theros set). Now saying that the graphics of MtG is influencing the graphics of FR.... I'd have no problem agreeing with that, but then the graphics shift with the wind.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2021 :  02:40:36  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

As to that MtG card being intrinsic to the version in Theros.... guess I'm not seeing it... the card basically enchants a creature with flying and "buffs them". The Theros version on the other hand is a creature with flying, invisibility in water, a psychic attack, and some illusion abilities along with magic and psychic resistance and poison immunity. Is there something more to some other magic card or something that I'm not seeing?

I would relate this to "hey, I need a water fey... look, here's one in this product... I'll use it... it seems balanced". Now, I WILL say that the LOOK of it is definitely a conversion of the naiad in MTG to the naiad in Theros (which makes sense as Theros was MtG and this naiad is from the Theros set). Now saying that the graphics of MtG is influencing the graphics of FR.... I'd have no problem agreeing with that, but then the graphics shift with the wind.



Not all the Naiads abilities are inspired by that card, although the fly spell was, but rather alot of its design what inspired by the blue part of MtGs colour pie. Mind Magics (psionic damage), aquatic creatures, flying creatures, illusions, are all very blue part of the pie (although not exclusively for all of those, like Red gets some big fliers like Pheonixes and Dragons, its just more common in blue). You really have to have a sense of the colour pie of MtG to see how it shaped the creatures of Theros and Ravnica.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11701 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2021 :  12:47:38  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
gotcha, so the psychic damage makes a lot of sense if you're saying that's related to the blue color. The illusions I might pass off as just "hey they're fey", and the invisibility in water just makes sense because of what they're shown to look like (which does correlate directly to their MtG look, since traditional naiad drawings look like fleshy women and not elemental women).

I still would just relate this though to someone wanting a water fey probably and just things getting imported, which happens a LOT with FR. To a degree, the same happens a lot with Eberron as well, but FR is the dumping grounds for every idea. Even a lot of the ideas that people think of as starting in Eberron kind of started in FR. For instance, sentient helmed horrors with no master running around were a
concept before warforged, as was Jhingleshod. Even the concept of living spells which people think is unique to Eberron started in FR as "spell wards.

Still, I'd be interested to see where and how they use these naiads. By that I mean we have certain creatures used that are related to waterfalls and rivers in areas that it might be interesting to mix their lore. For instance, in serpent kingdoms we find out that there are fossergrim (basically kind of like a traditional male naiad / nereid) along the river Lundeth down in Thindol on the Chultan peninsula.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fossergrim

From Serpent Kingdoms
River Lundeth: Also known as the Cascades, this very short and wild river arises in the western Hazur Mountains and plummets down to the Thingulph in a series of small waterfalls. Although the inhabitants of Lundeth have tamed the river mouth with a series of watermills, most of the watercourse is the preserve of a pool of fossergrims and a tumble of galeb duhr. Hierophant Dezelyna Goldeagle (N female Chultan human druid 12/hierophant 7) reportedly makes her home somewhere near the highest cascades to ensure their continuing sanctity.

So, the reason why I think this might be interesting is that this area, if one looks at the 4e maps.... it kind of looks like it might have had a portion of it go to Abeir. In fact, some of what I've been theorizing is that it did go to Abeir taking the city of Lundeth with it. When it went to Abeir, if a portion of the Hazur mountains went with it (which it kind of looks like it did), then maybe the "river Lundeth" and the "cascades" with its Fossergrim went with it. Maybe the Naiads as we see them now are a result of elemental beings of Abeir coming to the region....

In fact, I really like this idea. I wanted a reason that the people of Lundeth flee using a portal, and I was picturing Abeirans taking over the area, but I didn't have a solid idea of what/how. This could be a good storyline with naiads showing up to destroy the "wicked watermills of humanity that were taming the river" and joining up with the Fossergrim. Maybe some primordial of water showed up too, and maybe some story can be made of the druidess... maybe she turned from the worship of her god to worshipping a primordial? Maybe she fled and was true to her god? Maybe she became a "host" for the primordial, like an avatar during the ToT.... or maybe her "god" was Ubtao... since he disappeared after the spellplague, and she became a host for him. Or maybe her god is some other nature god that disappeared (such as Eldath, goddess of rivers, who wasn't listed as either a greater god, god, or exarch in the 4e campaign guide).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Mar 2021 13:49:04
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1621 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2021 :  22:23:03  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

gotcha, so the psychic damage makes a lot of sense if you're saying that's related to the blue color. The illusions I might pass off as just "hey they're fey", and the invisibility in water just makes sense because of what they're shown to look like (which does correlate directly to their MtG look, since traditional naiad drawings look like fleshy women and not elemental women).

I still would just relate this though to someone wanting a water fey probably and just things getting imported, which happens a LOT with FR. To a degree, the same happens a lot with Eberron as well, but FR is the dumping grounds for every idea. Even a lot of the ideas that people think of as starting in Eberron kind of started in FR. For instance, sentient helmed horrors with no master running around were a
concept before warforged, as was Jhingleshod. Even the concept of living spells which people think is unique to Eberron started in FR as "spell wards.

Still, I'd be interested to see where and how they use these naiads. By that I mean we have certain creatures used that are related to waterfalls and rivers in areas that it might be interesting to mix their lore. For instance, in serpent kingdoms we find out that there are fossergrim (basically kind of like a traditional male naiad / nereid) along the river Lundeth down in Thindol on the Chultan peninsula.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fossergrim

From Serpent Kingdoms
River Lundeth: Also known as the Cascades, this very short and wild river arises in the western Hazur Mountains and plummets down to the Thingulph in a series of small waterfalls. Although the inhabitants of Lundeth have tamed the river mouth with a series of watermills, most of the watercourse is the preserve of a pool of fossergrims and a tumble of galeb duhr. Hierophant Dezelyna Goldeagle (N female Chultan human druid 12/hierophant 7) reportedly makes her home somewhere near the highest cascades to ensure their continuing sanctity.

So, the reason why I think this might be interesting is that this area, if one looks at the 4e maps.... it kind of looks like it might have had a portion of it go to Abeir. In fact, some of what I've been theorizing is that it did go to Abeir taking the city of Lundeth with it. When it went to Abeir, if a portion of the Hazur mountains went with it (which it kind of looks like it did), then maybe the "river Lundeth" and the "cascades" with its Fossergrim went with it. Maybe the Naiads as we see them now are a result of elemental beings of Abeir coming to the region....

In fact, I really like this idea. I wanted a reason that the people of Lundeth flee using a portal, and I was picturing Abeirans taking over the area, but I didn't have a solid idea of what/how. This could be a good storyline with naiads showing up to destroy the "wicked watermills of humanity that were taming the river" and joining up with the Fossergrim. Maybe some primordial of water showed up too, and maybe some story can be made of the druidess... maybe she turned from the worship of her god to worshipping a primordial? Maybe she fled and was true to her god? Maybe she became a "host" for the primordial, like an avatar during the ToT.... or maybe her "god" was Ubtao... since he disappeared after the spellplague, and she became a host for him. Or maybe her god is some other nature god that disappeared (such as Eldath, goddess of rivers, who wasn't listed as either a greater god, god, or exarch in the 4e campaign guide).



I agree I don't think it was planned to important Theros influences into FR, they likely say the creature and didn't fully grasp its MtG influences when they added it to the adventure, they just wanted a water fey tied to the pool and this fit the bill.
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