| Author |
 Topic  |
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jan 2017 : 23:57:33
|
So, I know according to Lady of Poison that there's a tattooed soldier named Gunggari Ulmarra. He's human. I know a few other facts, such as he's from Osse, they have a fascination with dream magic, known as Alcheringa. However, the one thing I can't find....
Gunggari is obviously meant to represent an Australian Aborigine.... but nothing anywhere says that he's black skinned that I can find. I find it unusual that they NEVER mention him being black skinned, or dusky skinned even. Do you think it would be a fair assumption based upon this that the people of Osse may resemble the people of Zakhara or the Shou? I mean it would seem to me to be purely my own interpretation of Australia that would make me say he should be black or dusky skinned with wiry hair.
|
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2017 : 02:41:41
|
Were the 'tattoos' themselves described? If they were more of the colorful, modern variety, then I would assume a lighter skin tone (nothing racist here - tats just show-up better on lighter skin). Hell, they could even be albinos for all we know.
But if they are of a more 'tribal' nature - like series of dots, or swirl-patterns, then perhaps a darker skin tome would be in order. Note that Osse is quite bit further north than Australia is - its actually ON the equator. Now, that might make you think darker skin tones should be a given, but RW Australia is actually fairly close to Antarctica, and yet, aborigines are very dark. Thus, it has far more to do with the culture than geographic placement - advanced cultures can avoid the elements more, and not be so 'weathered' looking. All that being said, his culture does appear to have some of the 'primitive' trappings of aboriginal culture, AND Osse is actually on the equator, so a darker skin would seem a good fit (but it IS a fantasy world, so you could even go with blue if you wanted to). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 01 Feb 2017 02:52:08 |
 |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2017 : 14:34:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Were the 'tattoos' themselves described? If they were more of the colorful, modern variety, then I would assume a lighter skin tone (nothing racist here - tats just show-up better on lighter skin). Hell, they could even be albinos for all we know.
But if they are of a more 'tribal' nature - like series of dots, or swirl-patterns, then perhaps a darker skin tome would be in order. Note that Osse is quite bit further north than Australia is - its actually ON the equator. Now, that might make you think darker skin tones should be a given, but RW Australia is actually fairly close to Antarctica, and yet, aborigines are very dark. Thus, it has far more to do with the culture than geographic placement - advanced cultures can avoid the elements more, and not be so 'weathered' looking. All that being said, his culture does appear to have some of the 'primitive' trappings of aboriginal culture, AND Osse is actually on the equator, so a darker skin would seem a good fit (but it IS a fantasy world, so you could even go with blue if you wanted to).
You're kind of thinking how I was, and no, they never described the colors of the tattoos either (looked for that too). LOL, I was even thinking to myself "hell, I could make him blue for all that matters"... that is just funny.
I think I'm going to go for a more Polynesian look for the smallish area that I'm going to delve (which will actually be the islands northeast of Osse and not the actual continent). So, I'll describe them as honey-golden to bronze skinned, and that will give me the chance to describe them as a very colorful people in their tattoos. Maybe dying their hair not normal for humans colors should be a common thing too. I may make reference to other tribes that are inland that are dusky hued... after all, I guess nothing says Osse for its size needs to have one human culture feeding it. I do like the idea of all the cultures sharing the tattoo / dream magic / ancestor spirit worship though. Guess that way I can hedge my bets in case I missed something that does describe them as one complexion or another. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 00:52:17
|
Australian Aboriginals actually vary quite a lot in skin colour. Very early on there were a few distinct branches of Aboriginals, some with very dark brown skin and another with comparatively very light brown skin. Nowadays, there are many mixed-race Aboriginals with ancestors who are from different tribes or who are British, Chinese, and even Afghan and others. (There's a common racist argument here that someone can't truly be Aboriginal because they don't look dark enough, despite ancestry, culture, and facts.)
Dark skin colour is actually an evolutionary adaptation to UV exposure: high UV eventually leads to higher melanin content and darker skin. That's typically around the equator, but equatorial jungles likely have reduced UV and people there have lighter skin. Then people move around a lot, and evolution takes millennia to catch up.
So Gunggari could be dark-skinned or lighter-skinned, perhaps having come from a more UV-sheltered rainforest or by having Shou ancestry. Bruce Cordell probably just thought to make a point of not mentioning it.
Gunggari is clearly meant to be based on Australian Aboriginals however. "Alcheringa" is even an Aboriginal word, meaning "Dreamtime".
His tattoos are the odd thing, since there doesn't seem to have ever a tradition of Aboriginal tattooing prior to the modern age. Instead, they used body paint and scarification. So the Osse people aren't an exact match. Instead, I'm reminded of Maori tattoos. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
Edited by - BadCatMan on 02 Feb 2017 00:59:08 |
|
|
|
KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 10:16:11
|
As far as skin colour goes, it could be anything, as we don't really know anything about Osse's climate, or where the population came from. As Markustay said, the equator runs through near the centre of the continent - so it could be a tropical jungle similar to the Congo for all we know. Or, it could be populated by Northmen who got there through a portal two thousand years ago.
I get the impression that although the culture is based on the traditions of Aboriginal Australians, there isn't much in the lore that says anything about Osse's climate being similar to Australia's. The equator is north of Australia, for example. Both Osse and Australia are huge though, so there's room for lots of different climate-types.
Without any canon there, you can pretty much use whatever floats your boat. I'd be inclined to give the north of the continent tropical jungle similar to the Democratic Congo, then becoming steadily more desertified the more south one goes below the 15th parallel south (working off Markustay's Toril map on his DeviantArt page), and being full on desert by the 25th parallel or so. So, a reverse south-north on the real world Libya to DR Congo line in Africa (as it's in Toril's southern hemisphere). |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 19:35:44
|
| The 'scarification' is what I was thinking of, BadCatMan, when I said "dots and/or swirl patterns". I had forgotten there was a specific term for that type of permanent body-marking (tattoos being totally 'not my thing'). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 03 Feb 2017 04:59:46 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 19:49:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Australian Aboriginals actually vary quite a lot in skin colour. Very early on there were a few distinct branches of Aboriginals, some with very dark brown skin and another with comparatively very light brown skin. Nowadays, there are many mixed-race Aboriginals with ancestors who are from different tribes or who are British, Chinese, and even Afghan and others. (There's a common racist argument here that someone can't truly be Aboriginal because they don't look dark enough, despite ancestry, culture, and facts.)
Dark skin colour is actually an evolutionary adaptation to UV exposure: high UV eventually leads to higher melanin content and darker skin. That's typically around the equator, but equatorial jungles likely have reduced UV and people there have lighter skin. Then people move around a lot, and evolution takes millennia to catch up.
So Gunggari could be dark-skinned or lighter-skinned, perhaps having come from a more UV-sheltered rainforest or by having Shou ancestry. Bruce Cordell probably just thought to make a point of not mentioning it.
Gunggari is clearly meant to be based on Australian Aboriginals however. "Alcheringa" is even an Aboriginal word, meaning "Dreamtime".
His tattoos are the odd thing, since there doesn't seem to have ever a tradition of Aboriginal tattooing prior to the modern age. Instead, they used body paint and scarification. So the Osse people aren't an exact match. Instead, I'm reminded of Maori tattoos.
Maori, ok, that fits even better with my idea of more "Polynesian" in look. Maybe I should go watch that Moana movie..... the seven year old would probably like it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 19:59:18
|
BTW, I'm betting the answer is no.... but during 4e was there anything that says that this continent stayed? Betting we haven't heard jack since the Lady of Poison novel.
I was thinking of having it having gone over to Abeir and it being one of the continents that came into conflict with the Abeiran continents (personally, I don't want Anchorome/Maztica/Lopango/Katashaka to have been bothered by a lot of Abeirans, just as Returned Abeir/Laerakond wasn't really bothered a lot by Faerun). However, I think having Osse having to deal with dragons, dragonborn, and possibly primordials could prove interesting. Just how much interaction this is I'd be leaving vague (i.e. only relating the pieces that impacted the islands I'd be detailing). Maybe there was a continent near it... maybe only portions displaced like what happened with Unther. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 20:08:16
|
I've swapped Katashaka for Xendrik long ago. WotC should do the same - Xendrik is uber-kewl, and Eberron is 'dead in the water' ATM (and Elminster HAS BEEN THERE! Ergo, its not that much of 'a leap').
I could see swapping Osse for another Eb continent, like Sarlona. All of that could be easilly explained with Spellplague and Sundering 2.0 (especially considering the strange multi-dimensional nature of those people).
We should also steal Aerenal from them, because its also very cool (and could easily replace that large island down by Katashaka). WE KILLED IT! the rule is that now we get to "take its stuff". 
I feel another 'perfect (D&D) planet' coming on... must... resist... starting.. 'nother... map...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2017 20:11:13 |
|
|
|
Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 23:49:31
|
Tatoos? Know way too little of the anthropology of tatoos, Though there's lots on the website of the anthropologist Lars Krutak. Even something about shamanism and magical tatoos. Lots of inspiration for how cultures could work with tatoos there.
I'd personally work more on how to portray an culture, gatherer/Hunters or agriculture (Hoe-farming)? social structure?
Polynesians, Melanesia or Papua New Guinea all got good sources for interesting cultures to use.
Imho, skin colour means little, I think the fact europe is dominated by light skin could be more random than we like to think, despite there being some *rationale* behind it. There is a found of dark skin genes in a mesolithic human from 7000 years past now, 5000BC. That's so late, its pure random we North Europeans are "white". And the stone age man, had blue eyes. Dark skin and tatoos don't indicate primitive people, it mean, a culture for tatoos among a dark skinned people. Unless we play with only stereotypes. I like to figure out how to make something original.  |
Edited by - Starshade on 02 Feb 2017 23:57:35 |
|
|
|
BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 00:58:52
|
Europeans probably inherited light skin from the existing Neanderthals. Along with a tendency for facial hair and obesity. The other human races got better traits from existing hominid populations.
If one doesn't mind real-world-inspired lands and cultures in the Forgotten Realms (and I do appreciate the representation rather than the actual execution of many of them), then the setting is ripe for an Oceania-like area.
Much of the continent of Osse can be based on Australia, full of desert and bush, home to Aboriginal-like peoples. The equatorial, tropical north with its peninsulas and large islands would hold jungle and rainforest like New Guinea (with actual cannibals!) and the Solomon Islands, and so on. The long chain of islands in the cold far north could be like New Zealand. Then lots of small islands all around hold Polynesian-like cultures, like Hawaii, Fiji, and Easter Island, home to great seafarers, weird stone heads, and volcanoes.
Then you can cram in more fantasy islands, like a Skull Island home to gigantic beasts or a R'lyeh for Lovecraftian madness. Throw sea monsters into the vast oceans and go! |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 01:38:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
Tatoos? Know way too little of the anthropology of tatoos, Though there's lots on the website of the anthropologist Lars Krutak. Even something about shamanism and magical tatoos. Lots of inspiration for how cultures could work with tatoos there.
I'd personally work more on how to portray an culture, gatherer/Hunters or agriculture (Hoe-farming)? social structure?
Polynesians, Melanesia or Papua New Guinea all got good sources for interesting cultures to use.
Imho, skin colour means little, I think the fact europe is dominated by light skin could be more random than we like to think, despite there being some *rationale* behind it. There is a found of dark skin genes in a mesolithic human from 7000 years past now, 5000BC. That's so late, its pure random we North Europeans are "white". And the stone age man, had blue eyes. Dark skin and tatoos don't indicate primitive people, it mean, a culture for tatoos among a dark skinned people. Unless we play with only stereotypes. I like to figure out how to make something original.
And yet, the first thing people tend to note about a person are these overwhelming attributes, such as skin color, hair color (especially if its odd like red or blonde versus the more typical brown/black), strange piercings and body designs. Its not wrong to try and fact check whether a book or some other source had actually committed to certain qualities of a people. Please don't try to turn my simple question into something its not.
As to the other factors, just because I haven't stated everything I plan to do yet, doesn't mean I'm not considering them. Please don't call my idea unoriginal when you haven't even heard it yet. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 01:52:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've swapped Katashaka for Xendrik long ago. WotC should do the same - Xendrik is uber-kewl, and Eberron is 'dead in the water' ATM (and Elminster HAS BEEN THERE! Ergo, its not that much of 'a leap').
I could see swapping Osse for another Eb continent, like Sarlona. All of that could be easilly explained with Spellplague and Sundering 2.0 (especially considering the strange multi-dimensional nature of those people).
We should also steal Aerenal from them, because its also very cool (and could easily replace that large island down by Katashaka). WE KILLED IT! the rule is that now we get to "take its stuff".
I feel another 'perfect (D&D) planet' coming on... must... resist... starting.. 'nother... map...
While I like Xendrik (I really do like the giants and jungle drow idea), I'm going another direction with the "the only humanoids that look remotely like humans are recent immigrants" path for Katashaka. Basically, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, orcs, goblins..... they don't exist there. Varieties of cat folk, canine folk, rodent folk, stork folk, frog folk, turtle folk, lizard folk, snake folk, rhino folk, elephant folk, hippo folk, parrot folk, toucan folk, yak folk, minotaurs, goat folk, etc..... will fill that void. In some respects, it will resemble the cast of the Disney Robin Hood movie, but obviously meaner.
That being said, Xendrik could be a good model for Osse's interior. Honestly, I just last week got it in my head to put a little Osse colony (and get rid of something else I had been making in Chessenta... or rather make said area still existing but outside the control of those I was putting in control), so I looked and saw some outlying islands and figured I could play with just a small piece. I wouldn't want savage elves though.... maybe turn that into something else.... and with dream magic being such a focus.... maybe some kind of psionics. I do like the idea of the stone giants (which are literally stone and they chisel their skin) from "The Devil You Know" being there though. They'd make a good enemy for encroaching dragonkind. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 02:01:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Europeans probably inherited light skin from the existing Neanderthals. Along with a tendency for facial hair and obesity. The other human races got better traits from existing hominid populations.
If one doesn't mind real-world-inspired lands and cultures in the Forgotten Realms (and I do appreciate the representation rather than the actual execution of many of them), then the setting is ripe for an Oceania-like area.
Much of the continent of Osse can be based on Australia, full of desert and bush, home to Aboriginal-like peoples. The equatorial, tropical north with its peninsulas and large islands would hold jungle and rainforest like New Guinea (with actual cannibals!) and the Solomon Islands, and so on. The long chain of islands in the cold far north could be like New Zealand. Then lots of small islands all around hold Polynesian-like cultures, like Hawaii, Fiji, and Easter Island, home to great seafarers, weird stone heads, and volcanoes.
Then you can cram in more fantasy islands, like a Skull Island home to gigantic beasts or a R'lyeh for Lovecraftian madness. Throw sea monsters into the vast oceans and go!
I'm doing the "gigantic beasts" thing in Katashaka. The nyamma-numo mentioned in the Grand History of the realms, I've kind of interpreted as "large beast" OR dinosaur. So, when it says the tarrasque had to kill 4 nyamma-numo, maybe it was just killing some T-Rex's or somesuch (something big and nasty, but not necessarily a primordial or somesuch).
I do like the idea of sea monsters... maybe that's why we haven't heard much from the area. I also plan to do a lot of small island chains.
Hey, it sounds like your kind of from the area. This may sound a little stupid, but are their any kinds of fruits/trees/vegetables that are specific to the area that "stand out" in your mind? Also, are there any kind of "cattle" that are natural to the area (not imported like cows, etc..) that maybe people would have used to work as draft animals or as food? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 02:57:20
|
I'm Australian. I have so many ideas for a fantasy (or more fantastical) version of Australia. I could spend ages writing a setting, if I had the time and no prior fannish hobbies.
For example...
Almost every settlement of decent size (a village or town, but rarely a city) erects an enormous effigy of a plant, fruit, or beast of particular importance to the community. For example, a town that commonly herds sheep for the wool trade may construct a gigantic woolly ram, while one they grows fruit could build a huge pineapple. These structures can be several stories high, as tall as a wizard's tower or a defensive fortification, and are almost always the tallest things in town, forever looming over the heads of the people and reminding them of the source of their prosperity. Nevertheless, they have simple, laconic names in the Ossian manner, invariably just known as "the Big Lobster", "the Big Banana", and so on. None have more than one.
These massive effigies serve as totems for the community, housing and embodying the spirits of the animals and plants the people depend on, and luring such spirits in for continued prosperity. They also serve as profitable tourist traps. It is claimed that, when calamity threatens the town, the Big Whatever will even animate to save it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Merino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Pineapple
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Banana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lobster
:D
But no, I don't have any specific ideas for plants. Gum trees are the obvious ones; the evil things will drop a heavy branch, even a healthy one, without warning, so they're dangerous to spend too much time under.
Some classic Australian books that are good for inspiration on a fantasy Australia.
The Snugglepot and Cuddlepie children's books are about "gumnut babies" and villainous Banksia Men. These are nice inspiration for plant-based fairies and fey creatures.
The Magic Pudding is also good for ideas about anthropomorphic Australian animals. Such as Sam Sawnoff, the penguin with a shotgun. Yes. And a magic pudding that never runs out, is sentient, has arms and legs, and doesn't want to be eaten...
I'm afraid there are no native herd animals in Australia, not even in the marsupial megafauna that used to roam around. You'd have to be inventive there, but herding kangaroos is silly. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
Edited by - BadCatMan on 03 Feb 2017 05:34:06 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 08:36:13
|
Spongebob? Is that you?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 16:00:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And yet, the first thing people tend to note about a person are these overwhelming attributes, such as skin color, hair color (especially if its odd like red or blonde versus the more typical brown/black), strange piercings and body designs. Its not wrong to try and fact check whether a book or some other source had actually committed to certain qualities of a people. Please don't try to turn my simple question into something its not.
As to the other factors, just because I haven't stated everything I plan to do yet, doesn't mean I'm not considering them. Please don't call my idea unoriginal when you haven't even heard it yet.
Nothing wrong meant, the question is from my point of view great; I study material history (archaeology). I'm more self critical of the anthropological and archaeological sources for Dreamtime, australia's stone age, and the "bag" we culture historians call "aborigines", and used to think was typical older stone age, and thereby primitive.
BadCatMan: the giant animals is a great idea! One could use stats from giantic golem or animated statues, such as an Eidolon, and use the straight away. |
Edited by - Starshade on 03 Feb 2017 16:01:47 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 22:15:54
|
Oh, and I'm not sure HOW to focus on the dream magic piece, but one of the things that I plan on happening just following the move to Abeir is that obviously the sky is "steelsky". There is no moon. There is no sun. However, there is the flying Netherese city of Doubloon in the sky, which has been secretly captured by Zulkir Mythrell'aa (who had recovered from her death in the months leading up to the spellplague, but had not immediately returned home ... and had been hiding in her secret city amongst the tears of Selune when the spellplague happened). By the way, they've renamed this Netherese City of Doubloon to the "Tharch of Luneira".
Within the first week, the red wizards all have a collective magical dream in which they dream that they are performing a strange magical ritual. They will see themselves using foci centered around Selune and the stars, and they will see other groups throughout the world.... all various other cultures.... also performing rituals about the moon in the dream. At the end, they will all see their version of the Moon goddess/spirit arise from the ritual and "smile her bright smile upon them". When they wake, the moon will be in the night sky. For the folk on Luneira (who are all followers of Leira, btw) they soon come to realize that this is simply an illusion... and they jump in their flying ships and have fun flying through it.... for the first few days until the belief of the people on the surface make it turn solid. For the Leirans of Luneira though, they come to discover that the "face of the moon" is still an illusion, just as on Toril, and that its surface is different.... and uninhabited, so they no longer have folk to trade with for food (note, still unsure of what the red wizards do with the uninhabited moon... but it has houses, so a slave camp/work camp/prison is my first thought).
A few days later, again there will be a dream of a ritual shared with many cultures, but this time it will be about the sun. The next day, for those who believe.... the sky will be blue, and the Sun will travel across the sky. However, the differing groups will argue as to WHO is pulling the sun and WHAT they are riding. For the Mulhorandi, it will be Horus-Re (or possibly Ra). For the red wizards, the sun will appear to be Kossuth and he is pulled by both Horus-Re AND Lathander. For the Untherans, it might be Utu returned from the dead. For the Mazticans, it will simply be Tezca being the sun itself. For the Naticans, it will be Intiri. For the Azuposi, it will be Sun Father Spirit. Even two people standing beside each other will see different individuals (almost like titans) involved with the sun. To the people of Osse, it will be some "Sun Spirit" that I'll have to come up with a name for.
It is this humbling use of dream magic that makes the red wizards highly interested in its capacity. When they discover these natives in Osse have some kind of knowledge of dream magic, they agree to share their knowledge of farming, animal husbandry, and help controlling the weather and protecting the natives, in return for food and stories of Alcheringa.
Oh, and one thing I see the red wizards selling between the various enclaves are "story books".... but by that I don't mean a book to read..... they're involved with all these other cultures AND they have the ability to create illusions of light and sound. So, they hire say an Azuposi native of Anchorome to tell a story of Miochin, the Spirit of Summer, and they hire another native to draw pictures to go along with the story. They then magically record the speaker and use illusions to animate the drawings to follow along the story, and turn this into a limited use magic item. They may then sell this item amongst the Azuposi, but they may also sell it in other areas. Thus, these stories of gods/great spirits get spread throughout their fledgling empire. Gradually, some of the cultures may find some commonalities (for instance, I picture the Pueblo like Azuposi and the Oslanders being able to get along and consider their great spirits as possibly somewhat shared). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 03 Feb 2017 23:30:26 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 23:22:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
I'm Australian. I have so many ideas for a fantasy (or more fantastical) version of Australia. I could spend ages writing a setting, if I had the time and no prior fannish hobbies.
For example...
Almost every settlement of decent size (a village or town, but rarely a city) erects an enormous effigy of a plant, fruit, or beast of particular importance to the community. For example, a town that commonly herds sheep for the wool trade may construct a gigantic woolly ram, while one they grows fruit could build a huge pineapple. These structures can be several stories high, as tall as a wizard's tower or a defensive fortification, and are almost always the tallest things in town, forever looming over the heads of the people and reminding them of the source of their prosperity. Nevertheless, they have simple, laconic names in the Ossian manner, invariably just known as "the Big Lobster", "the Big Banana", and so on. None have more than one.
These massive effigies serve as totems for the community, housing and embodying the spirits of the animals and plants the people depend on, and luring such spirits in for continued prosperity. They also serve as profitable tourist traps. It is claimed that, when calamity threatens the town, the Big Whatever will even animate to save it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Merino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Pineapple
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Banana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lobster
:D
But no, I don't have any specific ideas for plants. Gum trees are the obvious ones; the evil things will drop a heavy branch, even a healthy one, without warning, so they're dangerous to spend too much time under.
Some classic Australian books that are good for inspiration on a fantasy Australia.
The Snugglepot and Cuddlepie children's books are about "gumnut babies" and villainous Banksia Men. These are nice inspiration for plant-based fairies and fey creatures.
The Magic Pudding is also good for ideas about anthropomorphic Australian animals. Such as Sam Sawnoff, the penguin with a shotgun. Yes. And a magic pudding that never runs out, is sentient, has arms and legs, and doesn't want to be eaten...
I'm afraid there are no native herd animals in Australia, not even in the marsupial megafauna that used to roam around. You'd have to be inventive there, but herding kangaroos is silly.
Oh, I don't know what I'll do with it, but I'm loving the idea of a giant animated pineapple totem now (hopping around squashing folks). Of course, a giant animate kangaroo, crocodile, or ram would make more sense. Thank you.
I was also going to have the island that I go to first get invaded by dragons and dragonborn from a more northerly island. On said northerly island, I plan on finding a "native" fey population that's been nearly wiped out by said dragons and dragonborn.
Oh, and it is good to know then that part about draft animals. I was introducing my red wizards to the islands as benefactors to the natives. The natives being hunter/gatherers, the red wizards actually teach them about agriculture, using beasts of burden, etc... and this so vastly improves their lives that they willingly share their new abundance in thanks. I want a culture in this area which isn't about slaves, but rather a people who are happy these immigrants have come in. In the end, the immigrants actually find themselves defending a simple folk who simple kindness has benefited them when they needed somewhere to grow crops to feed themselves (because it doesn't rain whenever you're outside the atmosphere). Thus, the depredations of Abeir don't overwhelm/enslave/kill this culture like it would have had the red wizards actually not shown up.
|
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 18:14:08
|
I am not quite sure personally, on how to understand the "dreamtime" concept, but I'm thinking there is possible to understand it by looking at an game series; Elder Scrolls. The Elder Scrolls series got the Elhnofey, and the "Earth bones", who seems to be Australian Mythology inspired. The gods both exist, and were an origin. The Dwemer tried to turn to gods, and, imho, quite possibly achieved their purpose. If so, they seemed to step outside of the "time", and vanished.
Could "dreamtime" be an non-time dimension? Dream Magic could then be both connecting to some dream magic, and for D&D in Forgotten Realms, time magic. Connecting and calling on the ancient totems gives the totems access to time. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 19:17:07
|
I recall a Westworld-esque type of near-future novel in which contestants played a game based on a point in history, and the novel focused on one particular event - the creation of 'super weapon' during WW2 - and for some reason it took place in the Australian outback. The only reason why I am mentioning it is that it was my first encounter with the 'dreamtime' thing, and I recall I was quite fascinated by it (I'm going back almost 40 years here, so forgive my utter lack of details). A more reent 'encounter' with it is that they used a little bit in the Nickolodeon cartoon The Wild Thornberry's; IIRC, the main character (Eliza) gets her power from a practitioner.
The only major thing I recall from that novel is that you were lead to believe the 'ultimate weapon' was going to be the Atom Bomb, but it turned out to be something else (and funny) entirely. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 05 Feb 2017 19:18:20 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 22:17:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
I am not quite sure personally, on how to understand the "dreamtime" concept, but I'm thinking there is possible to understand it by looking at an game series; Elder Scrolls. The Elder Scrolls series got the Elhnofey, and the "Earth bones", who seems to be Australian Mythology inspired. The gods both exist, and were an origin. The Dwemer tried to turn to gods, and, imho, quite possibly achieved their purpose. If so, they seemed to step outside of the "time", and vanished.
Could "dreamtime" be an non-time dimension? Dream Magic could then be both connecting to some dream magic, and for D&D in Forgotten Realms, time magic. Connecting and calling on the ancient totems gives the totems access to time.
Hmmm, I kind of like that idea that maybe using dream magic you can travel back in time as a "dream construct" or somesuch..... though time magic gets very hairy. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 02:27:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by StarshadeI am not quite sure personally, on how to understand the "dreamtime" concept, but I'm thinking there is possible to understand it by looking at an game series; Elder Scrolls. The Elder Scrolls series got the Elhnofey, and the "Earth bones", who seems to be Australian Mythology inspired. The gods both exist, and were an origin. The Dwemer tried to turn to gods, and, imho, quite possibly achieved their purpose. If so, they seemed to step outside of the "time", and vanished.
Could "dreamtime" be an non-time dimension? Dream Magic could then be both connecting to some dream magic, and for D&D in Forgotten Realms, time magic. Connecting and calling on the ancient totems gives the totems access to time.
Although much has been made of it, the Dreamtime is simpler than it sounds and is largely based on a mistranslation. Instead, the best description/translation of the Dreamtime I've heard is "Once upon a time..." I'm guessing here, but think of "dream" as a story or myth, and "time" as an ageless time in which stories occur. I suppose that as you tell a story or myth, it happened both a long time ago and happens right now as you tell it, it may or may not have happened at all, and yet always happens every time the story is told, and it changes to suit the current time, which it why it's timeless or out of time.
More simply, it's the era in which ancient Aboriginal myths and legends occurred, but also one in which modern Aboriginal myths are set. Even Aboriginal stories about British colonisation have become Dreamtime stories. It's similar to the time when Ancient Greek myths are set, that is, long long ago but no actual time and all kind of mixed together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime
The Dreaming, on the other hand, is rather more complex and important and is generally what people refer to with the Dreamtime. It seems to be broadly the spirit world, the myths, and cultural practices like laws and customs and even artwork. Every tribe has their own Dreamings.
Dreams might not even have anything to do with it, but it's hard to dissociate now, it's what people expect. In D&D terms, treating the Dreaming/Dreamtime world with dream magic rules seems fair. For example, the Region of Dreams or the Spirit World in 3e's Manual of the Planes could be a Dreamtime populated by Ossian legends. It probably should be a plane coexistent and coterminous with the material plane: those hills might be the body of a great old Dreamtime serpent spirit, and in the Dreamtime that serpent is very much alive.
I'm 100% too much of a "whitefella" for this conversation though. But I grew up reading Dreamtime stories, so I'm fascinated by them. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
Edited by - BadCatMan on 06 Feb 2017 02:34:16 |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 08:18:43
|
I understood the "Dreaming" to reflect rites/customs/practices in the here and now explained and justified by reference to mythology stemming from the "Dreamtime".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2017 : 13:32:07
|
<<It probably should be a plane coexistent and coterminous with the material plane: those hills might be the body of a great old Dreamtime serpent spirit, and in the Dreamtime that serpent is very much alive.>>
So, kind of like the dragon wall in Kara-Tur. Hmmm, this part could be some rich fertilizer, and it fits kind of the idea of the feywild and shadowfell being various reflections of the world. It could either be parts of both of those, or an undiscovered third "reflection".... similar to the old Chronicles of Amber. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2017 : 13:48:18
|
I was thinking of our good friend the Wagyl. :) It's a good example of how these worlds fit together and how myth interfaces with the land.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagyl |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
Edited by - BadCatMan on 07 Feb 2017 13:51:34 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2017 : 14:14:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
I was thinking of our good friend the Wagyl. :) It's a good example of how these worlds fit together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagyl
BadCatMan.... you are awesome. Everything you show me in this thread just gets my mind churning.
By the way, one of the ideas that's starting to come to my mind is to link Katashaka and Osse (and actually, Katashakan "migrants" will also infect/flood Faerun). Katashaka will be the source of many of the beast like humanoid races we've seen, and I'm imagining some of the humans from there may have spread to Osse. Just to see if I can get a little feedback for improvement, here's some of what I've written up of Katashaka to give a flavor to the continent itself (by the way, I picture some of the magic that they use to be similar to the totemist from Magic of Incarnum, but also similar to the binder from Tome of Magic).
KATASHAKA - A BRIEF OVERVIEW
Long ago during the time between the “Days of Thunder” and the “Dawn Ages”, Katashaka held a powerful and extremely inquisitive race of humans. This race would be known to many as a creator race in later times, though knowledge of them was little and far between. They had learned of a form of magic involving strange symbology, truenames, dreams, nightmares, and use of one's own will and imagination to force changes upon the world. These humans were in fact members of the original creator races, and it is believed that it was they that created many of the strange mammalian humanoid races of Toril that still inhabit the world.
When the Sarrukh and Batrachi empires grew and began to encroach upon their lands, these humans discovered Olurobo, the lord of dreams and nightmares, and his children, the nyama-nummo, or powerful dream spirits. Using special glyphs, totems, tattoos, and masks to depict the powerful, bestial nyama-nummo, they were able to call upon the power of collective nightmares. Gozirra, the giant spineback reptile which spit lightning and roared thunder; Tarrask, the giant rending horror; Kaeng, the gargantous, bonespur covered ape; Chup'po'clops, the great spirit spider; Gabara, the giant fire-breathing snapping turtle; Groedan, the giant pterasaur with the resounding shriek; Ghidoera, the many headed dragon-like beast; Kwaa'tal, the great feathered serpent; E'bearah, Vaerin, Mandaa, Kamaecuras, Baeragon, Gorasaur, Kumonji, Moegarra, Moettrah, Titanasaur, Khedorah, Norgraa, Ang'guer'ruu, these were all powerful creatures from the dreamtime which could be drawn forth at time of need to serve these humans. Many of these nyama-numo were also of simpler form, being spirits of the various animals in the surrounding world such as the great cats, savage canines, strong bears, inquisitive monkeys, the many horned beasts, fantastic birds, and even the strange reptiles, amphibians, and spirits of the oceans. The human dream shamans simply needed to open themselves to acting as a conduit to these powerful spirits, offering their own bodies as an anchor through which these primal entities could focus a melding of their souls. The greatest of these dream shamans could even serve as a powerful avatar allowing the huge nightmare beings to physically enter the real world, if only for a short time before the human conduit would have to rest and rebuild their bond with the realm of dreams, though they did discover that the interaction could be prolonged through blood sacrifice.
Many sought the power of the dream shamans, and they did bond themselves with various beast totems in order to obtain characteristics of said creatures. Over time, these characteristics began to breed true within the human tribes, such that after several generations what was once a human tribe would no longer be seen as part of the human race. Humans began to disappear, replaced by the monstrous creations that they had made of themselves in an attempt to perfect themselves. It is whispered even that these savage folk turned upon many of the remaining purebred humans when the humans began sacrificing them in order to appease the nyama-nummo. The nation of Mhairshalk, former powerhouse of the Sarrukh, had fallen, but its successors would prove no less of a thorn in the side of inhabitants of Katashaka. Eventually, the Batrachi Empire, Annam's brood, and even the feathered serpents of the Aearee intruded upon the disparate peoples of Katashaka. But then the batrachi did release upon the world many powerful entities, and the powerful dream shaman rulers of the humans did bind themselves with great beings from the dreamtime in order to protect their people. The battles that occurred are not well documented, but the destruction was believed to be vast and world threatening. Eventually, Asgoroth the World Shaper did breath its breath upon a celestial entity, causing it to burst and its blood drenched shards to fall unto the world. Shortly after this occurred, the majority of the humans of Katashaka simply were gone.
When the majority of human population disappeared, each of the fractious groups of Katashaka further separated themselves, eventually forming the melting pot of beast-like humanoids which would eventually become modern Katashaka. For millenia, the Tabaxi, a small remnant of this human population still thrived in the dark jungles, still serving “the sleeper”, a powerful dream shaman who had attained immortality through the sacrifice of his mortal servants. But, even these humans had been led away over four millenia ago by the servants of Ubtao. Still, it is whispered that deep in the jungles, some remnant of those ancient, nigh immortal humans still lies sleeping away the millenia, ready to draw upon the power of gigantic nightmares, the nyama-nummo, to defend their ancient homeland.
|
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
|
|
BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 00:08:34
|
Nice work, it's evocative and appropriate to the setting, without being derivative of anything in the real world, which is a tricky tightrope to walk in many setting designs. And I also like my kaiju.
If you're going with kaiju, you might draw a connection with the gargantuas from the Kara-Tur setting, and the Isle of Gargantuas:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Isle_of_Gargantuas
You're right on about the incarnum and totemist – Eytan Bernstein put totemists on Osse in his Class Chronicles articles:
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070904
(right at the bottom)
This was what I was able to find about Osse for the wiki, but I didn't cover Lady of Poison:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Osse |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 00:55:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Someone likes his kaiju.
Actually... I'm not a huge fan of them, BUT they have a place in the world, and after reading the entry for the Tabaxi in the GHotR, I figured this was the best place for them.
What I really like about what I did above was that I kind of twisted "the sleeper" concept. Previously, the sleeper in the story from GHotR was simply the tarrasque. Now, however, "the sleeper" is a human who is serving as a channeled avatar for the spirit version of a tarrasque. Said human is immortal, and after channeling the tarrasque for a short period, he must return to his sleeping to rekindle his connection to the world of dreams. Even more horrific, these humans sacrifice other humans when they wake up in order to feed the tarrasque spirit to anchor it to the world more to hold it there longer, and the people consider this acceptable and even an honor. It also makes this more believable, because these humans simply see themselves serving their leader, who is a human... albeit a powerful and immortal human. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 00:58:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Nice work, it's evocative and appropriate to the setting, without being derivative of anything in the real world, which is a tricky tightrope to walk in many setting designs. And I also like my kaiju.
If you're going with kaiju, you might draw a connection with the gargantuas from the Kara-Tur setting, and the Isle of Gargantuas:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Isle_of_Gargantuas
You're right on about the incarnum and totemist – Eytan Bernstein put totemists on Osse in his Class Chronicles articles:
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070904
(right at the bottom)
This was what I was able to find about Osse for the wiki, but I didn't cover Lady of Poison:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Osse
Ah, thank you for these links. I'd already read the wiki one (and btw, thank you for keeping up that wiki, its amazing). The Isle of Gargantua and class chronicles I'll definitely review. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Osse - Complexion/Look of Inhabitants
