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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2020 : 21:44:01
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In the past, I've talked about the concept of wanting to develop a dark version of Hogwart's within the realms. It will be a school started by ex-patriot red wizards, but it will NOT be Mulan only, nor will it be human only. There would be the equivalent of "houses". I'm actually thinking about the sorting/drafting process of members into these things.... and I'm realizing, that I don't want to use the term house. To note, these magic schools won't be wizard only either. They'll have options for bards, eldritch knights (and variants of such for necromancy, etc..), arcane tricksters, sorcerers, and even a variety of warlock that more resembles the binder (i.e. they research different entities and contact them, not just choosing a single master). I'm picturing them very much to be like college fraternity/sororities, but then I'm realizing that there's no way they would separate things along sex lines. Is there another term (besides house or team) that would work? Is there a term we might make up (the only thing popping in my head right now if Magocrity or Magority…. and that just isn't appealing either).
EDIT: Mystic League, Mystic Coalition, Mystic Alliance, Mystic Affiliation …. maybe there's a better term. Going for "Mystic" as its more class agnostic.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Jun 2020 22:19:33
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Archmage of Nowhere
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2020 : 22:24:45
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Circle/Ring - Has been used a few times in regards to mage societies.
Communion
Cabal - Depdending on how open these "houses" are
Trust
Decent number of normal possibilites. Are you looking for somthing FR specific?
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2020 : 23:08:07
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| How about dynasty (suggested by MS Word Thesaurus...it has helped me a lot with coming up with different terms)? That would fit in with the Red Wizard's haughtiness and have some nice historical connotations. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2020 : 23:13:28
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Association
Mob
Coven (Not all witches female)
Murder (As in murder of crows)
There should be others as well. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2020 : 23:58:47
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"Fraternity" implies male-only but can include a male/female mix. "Sodality" has equivalent meaning but historically has been preferred for the latter meaning.
"Order" is generic. "Union", "Guild", and "Association" are also generic although they have evolved into implying other exclusive meanings. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2020 : 08:24:07
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Thanks. Ayrik, you won me over with sodality, as a term I've never heard before, and I bet a lot o people haven't. I was very tempted by cabal, but the goals and views of these groups will be fairly open and broad (for instance, one group will be somewhat equivalent to the old Thayan researchers, another group will have a general view that mages should also be skilled in athleticism/physica/melee skills, another might want to focus on arts, crafting, and business skills). It will be somewhat less oriented from the Hogwart's idealism views of "courageous"/"smart"/"power hungry"/"supportive" and I'll have more than 4 groups to prevent these groups gaining more political clout than they should or polarizing the populace of magic wielders.
Also, as an option, since it is something a bit unique as a "magical society" and given that Thay does already have a tendency to make up its own words.… "Magdality" or "Sodarch" versus "Mystic Sodality"... To note, I do plan on these groups having meaning to people outside of the school, in the form of "magical teams" in which they may compete openly in competitions similar to games of "capture the flag" or "break through the obstacles course". Most o these groups though will not have high level magics or high level persons at their disposal, so unlike our "football" wherein the greatest athletes of our time are competing, this would be more of "college" level competitions.
That being said, it might be interesting if every year the school DOES arrange some kind of game that's for graduates. Also, since this is in my Zulkirate, maybe in these "championship" competition the Zulkirate "schools" also have a stake in that they put forth their own competitors (like Army/Navy/Marines etc... in our world). This could be interesting for instance if the "mystic sodality of Sage Magus" which encourages research has a transmuter and the Zulkir of Transmutation wants said transmuter to be "on his team for the competition". If "Sage Magus" wins by having wizards of multiple schools and a bard working together, it can show that the spirit of cooperation is what unites the tharch (because I do want to have that kind of cooperation and less divisiveness). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Jun 2020 09:15:27 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2020 : 09:19:38
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| Upon further reflection, I'm opting for sodarch (so-dark), a made up term, but obviously driven by Ayrik's option of sodality. Single word, short like "team" / "house", etc... and once someone learns it, it will instantly bring the proper thing to mind. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2020 : 23:59:41
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Why not something more clique, not a name for a group but the name of a group?
Consider the names of other groups in the Realms - guilds, merchant houses, criminal gangs/organizations, priesthoods, etc. They often have a lengthy proper name for their organization and hierarchy but they're typically mentioned in common contexts by some simple title- a one- or two-word name like "Zhents", "Firecloaks", or "Hellriders". |
[/Ayrik] |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2020 : 10:15:10
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
In the past, I've talked about the concept of wanting to develop a dark version of Hogwart's within the realms.
That would be quite a challenge even without the Realms.
Considering how the version before "grimdark" had it.
quote:
government that engaged in this list of tyrannical activities: tortured children for lying; designed its prison specifically to suck all life and hope out of the inmates; placed citizens in that prison without a hearing; ordered the death penalty without a trial; allowed the powerful, rich or famous to control policy; selectively prosecuted crimes (the powerful go unpunished and the unpopular face trumped-up charges); conducted criminal trials without defense counsel; used truth serum to force confessions; maintained constant surveillance over all citizens;
- "Harry Potter and the Half-Crazed Bureaucracy" by Benjamin H. Barton in Michigan Law Review, Vol. 104, May 2006
And so on, and so forth. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2020 : 16:20:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Why not something more clique, not a name for a group but the name of a group?
Consider the names of other groups in the Realms - guilds, merchant houses, criminal gangs/organizations, priesthoods, etc. They often have a lengthy proper name for their organization and hierarchy but they're typically mentioned in common contexts by some simple title- a one- or two-word name like "Zhents", "Firecloaks", or "Hellriders".
Good question, and the reason why is that I'm wanting to have the same idea as fraternities (kind of like the Harry Potter Houses) at a school, and I wanted to use a term for them. I don't want these houses to be divided along sexual lines. I also don't want there to be some "mystical" division of them based on their attitude the way the sorting hat does on Harry Potter. However, my thoughts are that each would have something of a viewpoint on the world that is broad and vague.
I spent a few hours yesterday trying to write up how they would divide into these different "sodarchs" when people enter the school. To note, one idea I had was that until you become "a red wizard" you are still a student. So, a 40 year old person that's 3rd level is still a student of the school. I don't picture this being a common state though, as the school will have requirements of service that will generally advance people in level even if its slower than adventuring wizards advance.
To note, this is a bit of a change to realms society, except perhaps Rashemen to a degree. Essentially, the old idea in this particular society of you going off to apprentice to some wizard at his cottage is gone. If you are found to have magical skill, you are enrolled in the school. If you don't have money, you may have to join a lesser "house"/"sodarch"... but you're still required to serve.
Also to note is that this is a direct return to something like what was happening with the wizards who were under Mulhorandi rule. They were required to serve the government. Some might say that Thayans wouldn't embrace this viewpoint, but I actually disagree. Their problem wasn't with having to serve (because they do so with the Zulkirs). It was that they were being told what they could and could not study. Thus, unlike Harry Potter, there won't be a "restricted" section of the library. There may be a "pay for access" section. There may be a "this is only for members of X sodark" section.
This all being said, I'd actually like some input on my selection process... because I'm trying to think of it something like the football draft, but with some distinct differences, and I also don't know a lot about the football draft.
Here's what I've written up so far.... tear it up please.... I'll put it in the next response.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2020 : 16:31:48
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Tavai Academy
There are multiple sodarchs that individuals are chosen into, and its important to realize that these groups are not divided along class or specialization lines. Some sodarchs tend to draw certain types of casters based on their ethos, and as a result, while the wizards of the tharch hold a loyalty to their Zulkir/Aulkir, they may also hold loyalties to members of their sodarch that they grew up with at school. This sodarch affects their time spent at the school, but also may open doors for them after school as a result. These schools are not just about intellectual training either. They form “teams” which challenge each other in competitions which gain points for their sodarch. As a result, obtaining a favorable appointment is a concern for all individuals entering a school, but also for parents and family members who consider these placements something of a status symbol within their society. It is not unheard of for money, magical services and items, or trading of favors (including such things as marriage arrangements, governmental positions for bureaucrats, or simple social invites to parties) in order to get an individual into a certain sodarch. The society that Tavai Academy is in is not about what other cultures would consider “fairness”, but it is also not without structure to prevent simple money or social influence from allowing one sodarch from gaining too much political power. How individuals are placed within certain .
The school is a meritocracy and it rewards those sodarchs which perform better by giving them earlier picks in the choosing of students. It also gives those sodarchs which perform better a higher percentage of the incoming student body. This is accomplished by a complicated form of recruitment followed by “picking” from amongst the available remaining students. There are eight sodarchs, and the winner of the prior year is given around 17% of the incoming freshmen class. The last place holder is left with a little over 10% of the incoming freshmen class, leaving most other groups with 14%. This is accomplish during the general selection process by simply having “rounds” of picking individuals from amongst those who applied for a given sodarch, in order by points scored, and allowing the winning team take the losing team's choice every fourth round. Thus, in a four round “draft” winners get 5 choices, the losers 3 choices, and everyone else 4 choices. In an odd twist, once they are down to the final 6 or less applicants, all individuals are given no choice but to go to the losing sodarch. Thus, those sodarchs that do better tend to continue to do better. However, prior to this “draft” process, sodarchs are allowed to directly recruiting members who apply to join the sodarch. Recruitment consists of simply accepting an individual's offer to join the sodarch, and no more than half of a sodarch's new membership each year may come from recruitment. This is usually performed for several reasons, amongst them political, social, economic, or power driven. This is usually a source of much of the needs to fund new students with basic equipment, restore broken equipment, or provide lab materials for students. There is a drawback to accepting students in without allowing them to go into the pool of available student to draw from however. After this initial acceptance process is performed, the sodarchs begin picking members from the remainder of new applicants, but for each recruited individual, the sodarch is skipped over for getting a chance to select from the available pool. Thus, if someone chose to accept 16 individuals as recruits, then the first 16 chances that they would normally be allowed to select individuals are automatically used up. Thus, those sodarchs that recruit less individuals have earlier picks amongst those who may not have been able to “buy” their way into a sodarch, and they are more likely to be able to find individuals whose ethos somewhat matches their own after interviewing the available candidates.
As mentioned, the rankings are based upon a point scoring system. These points are not based on whim or abstract things like honorable deeds. They are based on measurable results. For instance, if a class is given on casting the enlarge spell for wizards, all wizards who successfully cast said spell after a week of training gain a minor amount of points for their sodarch. Similarly, production results for scrolls, potions, and other single use magics also gain a minor amount of points. While these point totals are very important, they are not as “game changing” as the competitions which are held. For instance, accuracy practice is commonly held in which students having learned the same cantrip must aim at and destroy targets at range. There are multiple competitors, which each sodark presenting a single competitor in each round. The sodarch competitor that deals the most damage in a given round is the winner of that round. This results in several winners of the “firebolt accuracy” competition for instance, and all winners of the first round are then added to a second round . However, the school masters also encourage the underdog sodarchs by giving them more points whenever they beat their rivals despite the odds set against them. In practical terms, if a sodarch is ranked three ranks lesser than another and they beat their competitor, the amount of points scored is increased by fifty percent (example, the 2nd ranked sodarch loses to the 6th ranked sodarch, then the 6th ranked sodarch gets fifty percent more points). Rather than trying to create a state of fairness, this is more to encourage a fear of loss and encourage a healthy belief that sodarchs on the downturn can come back up the ranks if they put their minds and will towards it. However, it also has the added affect of giving lower ranking
motivation - Researchers (maybe "Sodarch Sage Magus"). Those who prefer to conquer through having the best magical solutions. They prefer to study magic.
motivation - Materialists (“Sodarch ????"... would maybe like something better fitting). Those who would like to conquer monetarily through trade, enclaves, farming, crafting, etc... and work towards magics with that goal in mind
motivation - Imperialists (maybe "Sodarch Imperion"). Those who would like to control other countries through controlling governments directly OR via puppet intermediaries
motivation - Information Brokers (maybe "Sodarch Shadowseeker"). Those who would like to perform spy work, subterfuge, and theft of intellectual property
motivation - Mercenaries (maybe "Sodarch Battlemagus"). physical combatant who likes to combine magic with melee and/or ranged weapons, or folks who want to wade into combat while wearing armor
motivation - True Bloods (maybe "Sodarch Trueblood"). Those who believe that magic should be promoted within specific families and that breeding brings out the best wizards (not specific to Mulans. The Crintri fit this mold too)
motivation - Master of Servants (maybe "Sodarch Darkfire"). Those who focus on spells to control constructs, fiends, and undead as servants, guardians, soldiers, etc....
motivation – promotion of the gods of magic (maybe “The Silverfire Sodarch”) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2020 : 16:44:00
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Oh, and I literally need to rewrite some of those percentages, because I just added the Silverfire sodarch. Its also occurred to me that some sodarchs MAY be literally the mirror image of each other, but with just different leaders and members. So, for instance I can see there being multiple Imperialists, and they vy against each other. There might be some dividing difference between them (like one group might not like Zulkir X, and another might have issues with the current tharchion because they're in the other sodarch, etc..).
It should also be noted, these people are getting put into these sodarchs at say age 10 or 11, and this is their only point of "alliance" until they generally reach 2nd level (at which point in the case of wizards they choose an arcane tradition). At that point, their main loyalty must be to their Zulkir… BUT... they are still school members, and they are still part of their sodarch until they graduate to full red wizard status. Even after becoming full red wizards, many of them will still maintain ties to the school and their sodarch. The point I'm trying to go for here will be one in which there's actually loyalties beyond arcane tradition in this new world, because that's how they got separated for the Thayan civil war. There's also cooperation between arcane orders. Zulkirs still govern, but their power is lessened because the tight loyalty they had before is somewhat fractured, and the tharchion themselves gain just a little more loyalty, and these sodarchs… even though not a direct part of the government they have "political pull". I'm not sure how to portray all of this, but its fun to think about. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2020 : 17:06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
In the past, I've talked about the concept of wanting to develop a dark version of Hogwart's within the realms.
That would be quite a challenge even without the Realms.
Considering how the version before "grimdark" had it.
quote:
government that engaged in this list of tyrannical activities: tortured children for lying; designed its prison specifically to suck all life and hope out of the inmates; placed citizens in that prison without a hearing; ordered the death penalty without a trial; allowed the powerful, rich or famous to control policy; selectively prosecuted crimes (the powerful go unpunished and the unpopular face trumped-up charges); conducted criminal trials without defense counsel; used truth serum to force confessions; maintained constant surveillance over all citizens;
- "Harry Potter and the Half-Crazed Bureaucracy" by Benjamin H. Barton in Michigan Law Review, Vol. 104, May 2006
And so on, and so forth.
Yeah, its actually in reflecting on "the view not focused on" in the Hogwart's stuff that I realized just how easily this can actually exist in the realms. Yes, there can be light and good. There can be dark and evil. This place doesn't HAVE to be one or the other, but I guess the question I will be asking will be "what if this place wasn't headed up by Dumbledore, but rather a Snape". Because I highly respect Snape, and I feel he very much got a raw deal. I also love the concept of the Aurors, and I can see that very much being a part of the government as well. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2020 : 03:44:11
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The closest word would be fellowship, or perhaps society - neither really work for your purpose.
You started with Hogwarts, so I'm guessing you like Latin sounding terms.
Perhaps go with consortio (LATIN), or sodality/sodalis which means a group of comrades. Amicitus would be a group of friends (kind of bastardized Latin :P). Maybe even Societatum - should be an accent on the a in that one. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2020 : 03:49:53
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In the old Greek of the bible, fellowship was Koinonia - but that was for the feeling or act, not the group. I never learned enough of it to know if that would be the same.
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2020 : 14:21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Perhaps go with consortio (LATIN), or
sodality/sodalis which means a group of comrades.
I can't help but find the latter hilariously appropriate. As a fan of Planescape.
Speaking of hilarity:
quote:
sleyvas
Non-sex based term for fraternity/sorority
Peoplekindity.  I know, sleepy fish in the barrel... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Non-sex based term for fraternity/sorority
