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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2020 : 23:45:31
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Welcome to the more fully realized version of a question I had proposed a few years back in my first thread on this forum. There, I was just getting my teeth into Out of the Abyss, and was seeking help connecting the dots between loaned 3.0 Forgotten Realms books and the at-the-time brand new adventure module. Now, with a new party and a new angle to tackle the story in, I have turned my frustration into fascination. I present to you scholars: Where is Orcus? (cue the carmen sandiego theme)
___
Table of Contents v0.1
0. Prologue
1. Review
2. The Past
3. The Present
4. The Future
___
1.
I have made a good handful of posts to this wondrous board concerning the ever-enticing yet often disappointing setting that is Rage of Demons (2015). In it, we are promised thrills and nightmares as the demon lords of the abyss are set loose upon the world by Lolth to drive us all mad. What we received instead was an Alice in Wonderland style narrative woven into a handful of fantastic terrains for randomly generated storytelling.
However, I keep coming back to this damn book each different time I tell the story because this book, Out of the Abyss, has something that I think every campaign setting book should strive to either avoid entirely or emphatically lean into. Loose ends.
Let's craft a new story out of the white space that is Orcus? Hopefully we can get something good out of that strange video game tie-in, as well as giving Lolth something to do other than be terrifyingly irrelevant despite starting all of this. so, is lolth the new prince of demons or not??
__
__
2.
Here's some context. In this adventure, you can actually run into many of the demon lords that were given stat blocks. One you do not normally encounter though is Orcus. This is because Rage of Demons was a vast multi-platform project for Wotc that included some video-game tie-ins. From what I dug up back when I was researching my original thread, I found that the Maze Engine and Baphomet had content in an update for the Neverwinter Nights MMO. Orcus, however, only gets a lampshaded mention in the flash-back sequences inside the stone library of Gravenhollow. There, we are teased with excitement over a resurrected elder brain named Cyrog, and Orcus has somehow obtained his legendary wand despite literal decades of the cosmos keeping it from him. (still confused how he got it out of pandemonium)
This excitement one might read from that boxed text would be swiftly undercut once a reader discovered that this content, placed inexplicably far off of the playable map of OOTA into the east, was reserved for an isometric RPG adventure game update where you and Drizzt go off point and clicking some illithid until they die. Whoopdeedoo.
__
__
3.
As I said in one of my previous threads on integrating the Magical Tattoos UA into the narrative, I am currently running an abstraction of OOTA. This party is searching blindly for the tomb of Brysis Khaem, a throw-away minidungeon that inspired me to research further into the lore in the first place during my first time running this adventure. They are 5th level and are descending on their own volition from the surface into the upper north-dark with no clue what awaits them.
They are currently at a crossroads, and set to decide their next direction tomorrow afternoon. I find it highly likely that they will escort their Kuo-Toa allies through a partially collapsed tunnel and out to the mostly empty underground river headed north to Slubloodpbldop. I wanted to set a few encounters along the way, and came to the idea of introducing them to some abyssal undead. I already have either executed upon, foreshadowed, or set in place many encounters that tease the various demon lords' influences. The mad spiral symbology of Demogorgon has shown up three times, the gnoll encounter early in the setting has been spiced up with a Gnoll Fang of Yeonoghu, and they have just skimmed their way around a temple to Juibliex after encountering some sentient aquatic oozes.
So, I started with an idea to simply have various undead creatures laying about very still in a cleared area, and come up with something for them to be doing. This encounter would be a day or two away from passing by Velkynvelve, so I was wondering what I could do there.
I went on a reading binge and came up with so many possible connections that I immediately came here to declare a new sub-plot that seems so enticing and so necessary to fill out the holes in OOTA's narrative: Abyssal Ghouls and their connection to Yeonoghu, Lichdrow wannabes serving Kiaransalee, and the underdark dwelling spawn of Kyuss and their connection to Orcus, and even throwing in a shapeshifting Yochogol as a direct eye of Lolth herself? Even more ideas come to mind, such as the Bodak and other undead demons. Then there is also the disillusioned young priestess Asha Vandree, and her possibility as a player in this game. And then there is the inevitable question of the Illithid! If Orcus ends up thousands of miles east off of the map doing something with Mind Flayers and Cyrog the elder brain (as far as I could tell from VODS of this mission in the game, Cyrog has literally no personality or reason why he would be resurrected except for Orcus to curry favor with some random band of mind flayers that inevitably get destroyed by the video game party and their immortal drow ranger. LAME. So, undead, demons, shapeshifters, MIND FLAYERS, priestesses, and the eyes of a fist-full of abyssal powers could be all fixed upon finding Orcus and making sure his realm stays undefended! Or, perhaps this could be the story I am looking for that explains the reappearance of the Wand of Orcus? Is there a further connection here that I am not aware of?
I had so many ideas swelling about my mind! I wouldn't show everything at once, but can you imagine the conspiracy? Lolth has succeeded in ousting the various demon lords, and Kiaransalee wants to take the initiative right now and reclaim Orcus' domain for herself once again on the layer of Thanatos in the Abyss. However, nobody knows where Orcus ended up, or what he is currently doing. Nearly all the other demon lords have made waves through the north underdark as they meander about recklessly. Orcus, however, has not shown himself. Unsure about rushing in too early, Kiransalee sends one of her agents to scout out for information.
__
__
4.
Thus, I beseech Candlekeep for your most obscure of lore details and relationship drama between unholy powers and their agents in Faerun- and not just from the upper northdark! Orcus ended up thousands of miles east. I want every possible lore trail that shows up in and BEYOND Anauroch's underdark!
Past the buried realms, past the deep wastes, past the earthroot. If WOTC is going to throw around numbers like 'a thousand miles' then I want to look for some gifts set within those ridiculous bounds.
More importantly though (because Orcus is inevitably just in some pointless little nook deep underground in the middle of nowhere) I am curious as to the potential of a group of characters and monsters who are seeking out the status and condition of Orcus. Kyus, Kiaransalee, powerful and intelligent undead, and the Yochogol all have history that I have not yet researched as a DM. Does anything come to mind when I pile these names ontop of one another? What typically sounds like or does not sound like something they would do in according to their previous actions? Also, going back to my original thread from 2016, where in the nine hells of Baator did Orcus' freaking wand come from if it was supposed to be banished into Pandemonium?
_
_
In conclusion, I just want to give the players a tease at even more fingertips from the abyssal forces at play here. I want to delve further into the vague blank space between sweeping statements on the part of WOTC. I want Lolth to have a presence. I want to play up that elf immunity to the Ghoul's paralyzing touch- and question how that works with Drow. I want Asha Vandree to have SOMETHING to freaking DO here. I want to throw around some powerful undead and priests who would rather flee than engage the party. I already have an advanced retelling of the stakes back home at Hollows Heart with Fraz Urblu thanks to a completely unexpected adoption of a throwaway Quasit by the party. I already am racking my brain trying to come up with a way for some faithful follower of Zuggytmoy to be inside Auromycos to solve the plot device of her just inexplicably knowing all about its core and how pivotal of a role it plays in her plot. I refuse to believe that Lolth is just sitting there doing NOTHING for this whole time unless she is waiting for confirmation that an invasion into all of these demon lords lairs would go off without a hitch.
So, among my other subplots, I now add the race to discover Orcus into the mix. Perhaps Gromph Baenrae's spell pulled Orcus' wand into the Underdark, and when Orcus reached down to pick it up he was cast thousands of miles east away from it? What if a Bodak or a Yochogol or other creature posessed it? What deep dark pit could we throw the wand into? Would divinations for Orcus instead reveal the location of the wand?
Come and brainstorm with me, scholars!
Edit 1: QUTH-MAREN!!! I now have an undead for Kiaransalee to use! Thank you Fiend Folio 3.0 ...
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:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
Edited by - PattPlays on 02 May 2020 01:34:00
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 02:28:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Welcome to the more fully realized version of a question I had proposed a few years back in my first thread on this forum. There, I was just getting my teeth into Out of the Abyss, and was seeking help connecting the dots between loaned 3.0 Forgotten Realms books and the at-the-time brand new adventure module. Now, with a new party and a new angle to tackle the story in, I have turned my frustration into fascination. I present to you scholars: Where is Orcus? (cue the carmen sandiego theme)
___
Table of Contents v0.1
0. Prologue
1. Review
2. The Past
3. The Present
4. The Future
___
1.
I have made a good handful of posts to this wondrous board concerning the ever-enticing yet often disappointing setting that is Rage of Demons (2015). In it, we are promised thrills and nightmares as the demon lords of the abyss are set loose upon the world by Lolth to drive us all mad. What we received instead was an Alice in Wonderland style narrative woven into a handful of fantastic terrains for randomly generated storytelling.
However, I keep coming back to this damn book each different time I tell the story because this book, Out of the Abyss, has something that I think every campaign setting book should strive to either avoid entirely or emphatically lean into. Loose ends.
Let's craft a new story out of the white space that is Orcus? Hopefully we can get something good out of that strange video game tie-in, as well as giving Lolth something to do other than be terrifyingly irrelevant despite starting all of this. so, is lolth the new prince of demons or not??
__
__
2.
Here's some context. In this adventure, you can actually run into many of the demon lords that were given stat blocks. One you do not normally encounter though is Orcus. This is because Rage of Demons was a vast multi-platform project for Wotc that included some video-game tie-ins. From what I dug up back when I was researching my original thread, I found that the Maze Engine and Baphomet had content in an update for the Neverwinter Nights MMO. Orcus, however, only gets a lampshaded mention in the flash-back sequences inside the stone library of Gravenhollow. There, we are teased with excitement over a resurrected elder brain named Cyrog, and Orcus has somehow obtained his legendary wand despite literal decades of the cosmos keeping it from him. (still confused how he got it out of pandemonium)
This excitement one might read from that boxed text would be swiftly undercut once a reader discovered that this content, placed inexplicably far off of the playable map of OOTA into the east, was reserved for an isometric RPG adventure game update where you and Drizzt go off point and clicking some illithid until they die. Whoopdeedoo.
__
__
3.
As I said in one of my previous threads on integrating the Magical Tattoos UA into the narrative, I am currently running an abstraction of OOTA. This party is searching blindly for the tomb of Brysis Khaem, a throw-away minidungeon that inspired me to research further into the lore in the first place during my first time running this adventure. They are 5th level and are descending on their own volition from the surface into the upper north-dark with no clue what awaits them.
They are currently at a crossroads, and set to decide their next direction tomorrow afternoon. I find it highly likely that they will escort their Kuo-Toa allies through a partially collapsed tunnel and out to the mostly empty underground river headed north to Slubloodpbldop. I wanted to set a few encounters along the way, and came to the idea of introducing them to some abyssal undead. I already have either executed upon, foreshadowed, or set in place many encounters that tease the various demon lords' influences. The mad spiral symbology of Demogorgon has shown up three times, the gnoll encounter early in the setting has been spiced up with a Gnoll Fang of Yeonoghu, and they have just skimmed their way around a temple to Juibliex after encountering some sentient aquatic oozes.
So, I started with an idea to simply have various undead creatures laying about very still in a cleared area, and come up with something for them to be doing. This encounter would be a day or two away from passing by Velkynvelve, so I was wondering what I could do there.
I went on a reading binge and came up with so many possible connections that I immediately came here to declare a new sub-plot that seems so enticing and so necessary to fill out the holes in OOTA's narrative: Abyssal Ghouls and their connection to Yeonoghu, Lichdrow wannabes serving Kiaransalee, and the underdark dwelling spawn of Kyuss and their connection to Orcus, and even throwing in a shapeshifting Yochogol as a direct eye of Lolth herself? Even more ideas come to mind, such as the Bodak and other undead demons. Then there is also the disillusioned young priestess Asha Vandree, and her possibility as a player in this game. And then there is the inevitable question of the Illithid! If Orcus ends up thousands of miles east off of the map doing something with Mind Flayers and Cyrog the elder brain (as far as I could tell from VODS of this mission in the game, Cyrog has literally no personality or reason why he would be resurrected except for Orcus to curry favor with some random band of mind flayers that inevitably get destroyed by the video game party and their immortal drow ranger. LAME. So, undead, demons, shapeshifters, MIND FLAYERS, priestesses, and the eyes of a fist-full of abyssal powers could be all fixed upon finding Orcus and making sure his realm stays undefended! Or, perhaps this could be the story I am looking for that explains the reappearance of the Wand of Orcus? Is there a further connection here that I am not aware of?
I had so many ideas swelling about my mind! I wouldn't show everything at once, but can you imagine the conspiracy? Lolth has succeeded in ousting the various demon lords, and Kiaransalee wants to take the initiative right now and reclaim Orcus' domain for herself once again on the layer of Thanatos in the Abyss. However, nobody knows where Orcus ended up, or what he is currently doing. Nearly all the other demon lords have made waves through the north underdark as they meander about recklessly. Orcus, however, has not shown himself. Unsure about rushing in too early, Kiransalee sends one of her agents to scout out for information.
__
__
4.
Thus, I beseech Candlekeep for your most obscure of lore details and relationship drama between unholy powers and their agents in Faerun- and not just from the upper northdark! Orcus ended up thousands of miles east. I want every possible lore trail that shows up in and BEYOND Anauroch's underdark!
Past the buried realms, past the deep wastes, past the earthroot. If WOTC is going to throw around numbers like 'a thousand miles' then I want to look for some gifts set within those ridiculous bounds.
More importantly though (because Orcus is inevitably just in some pointless little nook deep underground in the middle of nowhere) I am curious as to the potential of a group of characters and monsters who are seeking out the status and condition of Orcus. Kyus, Kiaransalee, powerful and intelligent undead, and the Yochogol all have history that I have not yet researched as a DM. Does anything come to mind when I pile these names ontop of one another? What typically sounds like or does not sound like something they would do in according to their previous actions? Also, going back to my original thread from 2016, where in the nine hells of Baator did Orcus' freaking wand come from if it was supposed to be banished into Pandemonium?
_
_
In conclusion, I just want to give the players a tease at even more fingertips from the abyssal forces at play here. I want to delve further into the vague blank space between sweeping statements on the part of WOTC. I want Lolth to have a presence. I want to play up that elf immunity to the Ghoul's paralyzing touch- and question how that works with Drow. I want Asha Vandree to have SOMETHING to freaking DO here. I want to throw around some powerful undead and priests who would rather flee than engage the party. I already have an advanced retelling of the stakes back home at Hollows Heart with Fraz Urblu thanks to a completely unexpected adoption of a throwaway Quasit by the party. I already am racking my brain trying to come up with a way for some faithful follower of Zuggytmoy to be inside Auromycos to solve the plot device of her just inexplicably knowing all about its core and how pivotal of a role it plays in her plot. I refuse to believe that Lolth is just sitting there doing NOTHING for this whole time unless she is waiting for confirmation that an invasion into all of these demon lords lairs would go off without a hitch.
So, among my other subplots, I now add the race to discover Orcus into the mix. Perhaps Gromph Baenrae's spell pulled Orcus' wand into the Underdark, and when Orcus reached down to pick it up he was cast thousands of miles east away from it? What if a Bodak or a Yochogol or other creature posessed it? What deep dark pit could we throw the wand into? Would divinations for Orcus instead reveal the location of the wand?
Come and brainstorm with me, scholars!
Edit 1: QUTH-MAREN!!! I now have an undead for Kiaransalee to use! Thank you Fiend Folio 3.0 ...
Very well thought out. I would imagine Orcus to continue to rule in the infernal planes or even some outer planes. For a quick hot minute, Orcus came back to the FR's but was somehow left off like a sizzling rack of lamb on a spit. The Wand of Orcus is HUGE in the FR's. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 02:43:21
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| Orcus still rules the 113th layer. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 02:56:49
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Orcus still rules the 113th layer.
Yes... and a hefty bit higher up than The Demonweb Pits. Doesn't Grazz't rule something like the 786th level of the Abyss? I would think Grazz't would be on-par with Loth. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 03:07:41
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Graz'zt rules the 45th, 46th, and 47th layers.
The numbering of the layers does not denote the strength of its ruler. Demogorgon is still top dog, but Orcus is the closest to regaining his godhood.
Grazz't was born into his power, Demogorgon manufactured for it - but Orcus stole it and holds it in both hands, and will never let it go.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 03:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Graz'zt rules the 45th, 46th, and 47th layers.
The numbering of the layers does not denote the strength of its ruler. Demogorgon is still top dog, but Orcus is the closest to regaining his godhood.
Grazz't was born into his power, Demogorgon manufactured for it - but Orcus stole it and holds it in both hands, and will never let it go.
Well said indeed. |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 09:22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Very well thought out. I would imagine Orcus to continue to rule in the infernal planes or even some outer planes. For a quick hot minute, Orcus came back to the FR's but was somehow left off like a sizzling rack of lamb on a spit. The Wand of Orcus is HUGE in the FR's.
Let's clean up that BWOT why don't we-
Are you saying . . .
that Orcus would have followers in more than just demonic populations?
Can we get some inner planes shenanigans? Jesus- think about what Curse of Strahd could have implied with its context.
_
gdi. now I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to bring back The Return of Vecna. Reading that book was like getting a substitute teacher in your english class as a grade school student. It was fascinating and I can't stop thinking about him bringing back (or threatening to bring back) the Quasi-Elemental Planes. Hell, he could think of acquiring the power over a vacant and empty universe, not even powerful enough to be used to violently merge with a world like toril. But, on this world the Quasi-Elemental Planes might still exist. Or- and I have to re-read that ending on the plane of dust again because WOW- he was imprisoned in these Quasi-Elemental Planes but then realized that they had been just shunted from reality, and he was able to use his own prison to serve as the gravity well in this sea of nowhere they had been banished to. Merge that with reality and you fuuuck up some astral autobahns. (or by acquiring some power in something akin to a complete accident, thus being forced to act without proper sinister preparations. Come on, imagine some Bismarkian land wars between Yugoloth armies in Gehenna and somehow a god is awarded something in the deal- and Vecna obtained the power of the long dead corpse of that god now so he's gotta make a move out of nowhere as he gets a cosmic LZ of sorts ontop of the power to abuse it. Gehenna bringing the plane of dust HOVERING between some 45 degree Olympus Mons Gehenna planet-mountains.
[i]And then he decides to somehow summon back the quasielemental planes into modern day faerun and just blow them up to shatter some continental societies with primordial nukes.) Dust, Neutral Evil, Vecna, and perhaps even an assasination of an air duke of aqaa.
COME ON. IT'S WORLD WAR VECNA- Tangent aside...
Thank you for the validation. You can see how excited I can get at the thought of Orcus being both pretty screwed but also have a back-door that the other demon lords wouldn't have right now.
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:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 09:38:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Orcus still rules the 113th layer.
Yes... and a hefty bit higher up than The Demonweb Pits. Doesn't Grazz't rule something like the 786th level of the Abyss? I would think Grazz't would be on-par with Loth.
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Graz'zt rules the 45th, 46th, and 47th layers.
The numbering of the layers does not denote the strength of its ruler. Demogorgon is still top dog, but Orcus is the closest to regaining his godhood.
Grazz't was born into his power, Demogorgon manufactured for it - but Orcus stole it and holds it in both hands, and will never let it go.
Well said indeed.
_
and Grazz't does *even less* than Orcus in this story. And Demogorgon is just compelled to frolic through the upper northdark like he had just obtained his princely status. That, or Demogorgon knew that Ao wasn't gonna really let anything actually impactful happen in a 5e module despite always seeming to push the bar on the cover. So Demogorgon is probably just here to have a good vacation. Hey, it's a forced "do no work day", so why not have some fun and make a buncha people crazy. Caloo, calay.
But Grazz't had only one scene and it wasn't even set in the present! What the HELL is he doing at this time? Is he on Chult? XD
_
One of my very first notes I took on D&D ideas after starting to run it 5 summers ago (maybe 6..) was inspired by a hearthstone trailer of all things. I just had this idea of what if the Underdark went good for like, three weeks. Just, everything is cool, come party, drow society has opened up to the world come on check it out. I have no idea how, but somehow I thought Grazz't could undercut Lolth somewhere in this ordeal. Obviously, after a few nights in Forgotten Realms Las Vegas strip and discovering some horrifying current events, the underdark would assuredly not be actually rose-tinted. But it shows the extent I would go to as an amateur to get his purple butt involved in this.
Maybe Grazz't is just sleeping.Okay- say he knows what Demogorgon knows- say the Big Three Bois know that there's not gonna be much of a serious ordeal coming here. They know Faerun don't **** around with the state of things right now too much. So they're not going to try and get away with anything game-changing. Orcus decides to try and get his wand back, Demogorgon just makes people insane and LOVES it, and what does Grazz't do?
Who is the most perverse in the forgotten realms..? Maybe he just has some fun times and ruins a few people along the way.
"Dear sage we brought you back the potion of- ..sage? Uhhhh, okay party he says we can keep it LET'S LEAVE."
_
Edit 2: Okay, this idea that the three top Demon Lords aren't taking much of this seriously is just precious to me.
From the perspective of the players these demon lords are far more threatening when they are being CASUAL in all of this.
Which brings me again to WHAT THE HECK to do with Grazz't. In my first attempt to run OOTA the only thing I managed was to have an Incubus disguised as a raggedy Zhent NPC who got away with so much shit scott free. He totally charmed the Rat boss guy and then the party poisoned him right after.
I am going to weild Demogorgon flawlessly now that I know he has no anxiety about [i]any]/i] of this. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
Edited by - PattPlays on 02 May 2020 09:58:15 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 21:31:40
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I'm not 100% sure it ties in with the Out of the Abyss storyline but
...
[SPOILERS FOR THE DDO GAME INCOMING]
.
.
.
.
.
In a series of quests in the Dungeons&Dragons Online computer game you find out there is a rush of people (dwarves and drow) try to claim and resettle Tethyamar to extract "Jewels of Ardor" and everyone involved is completely carried away and obsessed with these things. By the end of the quest series you find out it was all of Graz'zt doing, toying with mortals and inciting one side and then the other in even more reckless fights and endeavours to obtain what happened to be useless crystals (so everyone in every camp was fighting/betraying everyone else and throwng their lives away to get more crystals).
EDIT: so I guess in the end Graz'zt was just having fun |
Edited by - Demzer on 02 May 2020 21:32:14 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2020 : 02:15:38
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I have to admit that the bigwigs of the Abyss simply going along with Lolth's schemes just to get a vacation is kind of funny.
Demogorgon: "Well, it was fun honeybunch, and thanks for the post-vacation snack!"
Lolth: "Wait, what did he mean by snack?... And why are there two Gargantuan sized salt and pepper shakers next to Menzoberranzan?"
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2020 : 04:26:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
I'm not 100% sure it ties in with the Out of the Abyss storyline but
...
[SPOILERS FOR THE DDO GAME INCOMING]
.
.
.
.
.
In a series of quests in the Dungeons&Dragons Online computer game you find out there is a rush of people (dwarves and drow) try to claim and resettle Tethyamar to extract "Jewels of Ardor" and everyone involved is completely carried away and obsessed with these things. By the end of the quest series you find out it was all of Graz'zt doing, toying with mortals and inciting one side and then the other in even more reckless fights and endeavours to obtain what happened to be useless crystals (so everyone in every camp was fighting/betraying everyone else and throwng their lives away to get more crystals).
EDIT: so I guess in the end Graz'zt was just having fun
_
Sadly I don't think Grazz't has much going on in the way of undead turf wars.. perhaps there is something hidden in OOTA that can serve as a place where Grazz't at least passed by? Perhaps that Daern's Instant Fortress hidden in the lowerdark (yes, some of these random encounters are just hilariously odd) could be stocked up with fancies and niceties as a pit stop for the party lord. Perhaps the succubus married to the Dawrf king in Gauntylgrym (another lore f***ery there. Apparently they went through three kings in just a few years when cross referenced to the 3.x Underdark setting book for the FRs) might seek out Grazz't's patronage upon hearing that he's about.
_
_quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
I have to admit that the bigwigs of the Abyss simply going along with Lolth's schemes just to get a vacation is kind of funny.
Demogorgon: "Well, it was fun honeybunch, and thanks for the post-vacation snack!"
Lolth: "Wait, what did he mean by snack?... And why are there two Gargantuan sized salt and pepper shakers next to Menzoberranzan?"
Comedy is key to this adventure, especially with all the horror elements. The party has to make madness saves just upon witnessing the demon lords, so it's best to have that be memorable in more ways than one.
Here's my more serious rationale of why Demogorgon can't get much done besides a Gimley/Legolas competition on driving people insane.
The two heads of the classic Prince of Demons are working against one another from moment to moment. One head is just furious that it isn't capable of accomplishing anything of importance here when it comes to their serious long-term plans. They antagonize any creature within reach, always seeking to start new conflicts while also taking their time to drive choice targets insane.
The other head is interested in enjoying this in the short term, but is constantly forced to cut interactions short with other creatures and drive them away swiftly as to keep up with the constant aggression of the other head. Wanting to be smug and enjoy himself, this head is constantly flickering between serene grace and absolute violence.
Basically, the worst case of self-antagonizing ADHD ever. Still, the art of the hunched demon prince lounging through a cavern with that smug expression from the concept art.
Also, I love that the art shows him being like, 60-80 feet tall at some times. I really want to play up that idea of him swelling in size when he destroys, and shrinking back down to his casual huge size category after using his spell-like abilities. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2020 : 13:03:34
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| Just to note, if you were to introduce more of a storyline for Orcus, you may want to tie it into his previous lines in the area. Orcus was active in the Vaasa/Damara area. He was also active previously with Narfell (which includes Dun-Tharos beneath the Rawlinswood). I'd probably throw in some kind of involvement with him and Eltab, maybe Larloch's fallen enclave of Jiksidur in Narfell, and perhaps even raiding the fallen city of Kiaransalee worshippers beneath the Galenas. Heck, he may even find some way to bring back Zhengyi and use him to help track his wand. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 00:40:32
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just to note, if you were to introduce more of a storyline for Orcus, you may want to tie it into his previous lines in the area. Orcus was active in the Vaasa/Damara area. He was also active previously with Narfell (which includes Dun-Tharos beneath the Rawlinswood). I'd probably throw in some kind of involvement with him and Eltab, maybe Larloch's fallen enclave of Jiksidur in Narfell, and perhaps even raiding the fallen city of Kiaransalee worshippers beneath the Galenas. Heck, he may even find some way to bring back Zhengyi and use him to help track his wand.
Whoo boy thats a lot of names.
BUT Kiransalee is the only excuse I need to research this! Thanks for making the connection!
So, here's another issue I mentioned before. The Zuggytmoy wedding needs to abuse this core of auromycos, and I need to introduce it earlier as a concept for her cult.
I had the idea for a drow female fleeing the fall of that south-eastern drow city that got RUINED a few decades back in the silence of Lolth. Perhaps she was wandering in Auramycos trying to get to Menzoberranzan to seek help (perhaps she left before her own city was lost entirely) and just gets lpst in auromycos and goes nuts.
I just... can't find muh info on zuggytmoy's cultists specifically in Faerun. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 02:39:56
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just to note, if you were to introduce more of a storyline for Orcus, you may want to tie it into his previous lines in the area. Orcus was active in the Vaasa/Damara area. He was also active previously with Narfell (which includes Dun-Tharos beneath the Rawlinswood). I'd probably throw in some kind of involvement with him and Eltab, maybe Larloch's fallen enclave of Jiksidur in Narfell, and perhaps even raiding the fallen city of Kiaransalee worshippers beneath the Galenas. Heck, he may even find some way to bring back Zhengyi and use him to help track his wand.
Whoo boy thats a lot of names.
BUT Kiransalee is the only excuse I need to research this! Thanks for making the connection!
So, here's another issue I mentioned before. The Zuggytmoy wedding needs to abuse this core of auromycos, and I need to introduce it earlier as a concept for her cult.
I had the idea for a drow female fleeing the fall of that south-eastern drow city that got RUINED a few decades back in the silence of Lolth. Perhaps she was wandering in Auramycos trying to get to Menzoberranzan to seek help (perhaps she left before her own city was lost entirely) and just gets lpst in auromycos and goes nuts.
I just... can't find muh info on zuggytmoy's cultists specifically in Faerun.
Ok, if you're going to do research, let me dot some I's and cross some T's for you.
Zhengyi the Witch King is a former red wizard of Thay who went into exile. He was an amazing necromancer. He was a lich. He invaded Damara and held Vaasa under his rulership. He was a loyal follower of Orcus. He was overthrown by Gareth Dragonsbane and company when they "destroyed" the wand of Orcus. There are those amongst us who believe that Zhengyi's interest in Damara and Vaasa was because of Orcus wanting to regain access to Dun-Tharos of Narfell. The priests of Orcus in the region were known as "the goat's head priests" for their practice of wearing goat head's as "hats". NON-CANON: I have it that Zhengyi is of the bloodline of Narfell and has actual blood ties TO Orcus, though these are many generations removed.
Dun-Tharos is the dark pit beneath Rawlinswood. It was the former capital (capitol?) of Narfell. Narfell is a former empire active from around -900 DR to around -150 DR, and it was an empire whose leaders were often demon born. It had a lot of Orcus influence. Narfell was known for two main types of casters... necromancers and conjurers (though many were sorcerers or dread necromancers and not wizards) and faced off against the empire of Raumathar.
Dun-Tharos is full of extraplanar entities that are trapped. Its overseen by the Nentyarch (a druid who encouraged the growth of the Rawlinswood), but for a while was taken over by a follower of Talona. This Dark Pit PRIOR to being known as Dun-Tharos was known as "Narathmault" and was the site of a legendary dark elven nation. This dark elven nation went on to form Undrek-Thoz the segmented city.
NON-CANON PIECE HERE.... I have it that "Narathmault" was previously known as "Bheuristahl" around -27600 DR and it was a city filled with hags, ogres & ogre magi, trolls, and goblins and had relations with the giant empire of Annam (and possibly some involvement with the Fomorian giants that get corrupted and turned ugly by their deity Karontor). Prior to this, it was the home of a giant spider that ate souls/spirits and is now a vestige (the being known as Chupoclops in Tome of Magic). So, in the depths of this city there may be stuff to do with hags, fomorian giants, ogre magi, etc... and possibly a spider filled section (which the drow would have respected), including things like phase spiders.
On the Kiaransalee thing, check out Demi-human deities. Here's a snippet:
Major Centers of Worship: Deep beneath the Galena Mountains and the cold plains of Vaasa is a great subterranean lake fed by the icy waters of the Great Glacier and inhabited by hundreds of giant water spiders. The Vault of Gnashing Teeth is so-named for the thousands of skulls embedded in the roof whose collective cacophonous chomping echoes throughout the great cavern. At the center of the freshwater sea is a large island, nearly a mile in diameter, dominated by a steep-sided plateau at its center. All that remains of V'elddrinnsshar-once a drow city dedicated to the Spider Queen that encircled the central mesa-are crumbling ruins, stalked by a legion of banshees awakened by Kiaransalee's faithful, and the bones of the city's former inhabitants (drow and slaves of various races).
V'elddrinnsshar fell in the Year of Many Bones (1278 DR) to the ravages of the Ascomoid Plague and was lundered by duergar scavengers a decade later. The city sat unoccupied until the Year of the Wandering Maiden (1337 DR), when it was explored by Reaper of Souls Larynda Telenna and a small band of acolytes. At their goddess's direction, the priests began construction of a brooding temple of black marble atop the central plateau, a massive stalagmite whose tip had been sheered off centuries before by the followers of Lolth for a similar purpose. When the Acropolis of Thanatos was completed a decade later, Larynda had expanded the ranks of Kiaransalee's faithful a thousandfold, and the skulls of V'elddrinnsshar's dead had been enchanted and mounted in the cavern's roof to form an unholy choir. Since the temple's completion, the priests of Kiaransalee have relentlessly combated the Cult of the Goat's Head, active in the lands of Vaasa above. In the decade since the defeat of the Witch-King and the destruction of Castle Perilous, Kiaransalee's priests have nearly exterminated the remaining clergy of Orcus in the Bloodstone Lands-many of whom took refuge in the Black Holes of Sunderland and thus were readily accessible to attacks from below-and destroyed most of the goblinkin tribes who venerated the Prince of the Undead while
the Witch-King reigned in the Lands of Light. Although they do not realize it, King Gareth Dragonsbane and the people of Damara owe a great deal of their success against the forces of the Witch-King to their subterranean neighbors.
Affiliated Orders: The Legion of Vengeful Banshees is an order of Kiaransaleen crusaders dedicated to the destruction of Tenebrous's undead tanar'ri servants, known as visages. While Banshee Knights are found on many worlds, in the Realms all are based in the Acropolis of Thanatos deep beneath the Galenas. From their chapter house within the temple grounds, the members of the order mount long-ranging hunts on the surface and in the Underdark for Tenebrous's minions. The Banshee Knights have apparently developed some sort or spell or magical item that allows them to detect and defend against the use of a visage's lucidity control power. Crusaders of the order are fanatically dedicated to their goddess and the destruction of all visages; they stop at nothing to see one destroyed, regardless of the collateral damage. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 03:53:50
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ok, if you're going to do research, let me dot some I's and cross some T's for you.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/square/000/019/419/Untitled-1.gif
This is phenomenal...
Narfel is 1.8k miles east of Menzob', which fits the description of "thousands of miles" east...
"Since the temple's completion, the priests of Kiaransalee have relentlessly combated the Cult of the Goat's Head, active in the lands of Vaasa above."
Well, there's my conflict.. Talk about flanking. Wait- if Orcus got brought east against his will... Perhaps he is held in enemy territory? His 26 or so CR is definitely something that (without his wand) some cultists with great power could bind and hold captive. Holy CRAP. Vaasa v. Narfell in the modern day..? And if Damara owes Kira's conquest to their success, then Damara would be allied in this covert unholy cold war. If Orcus could start a new cult in the relatively WEAK AF North Upperdark, then they could get his wand and come free him. I imagine Orcus being patient and forboding in caprivity, ready to blast his way out of there the moment he gets his wand.
But that's just the first draft (not even all the way through your post, and now I'm wondering if Orcus might be freed by Illithid and shack up in their dead lair, raising Cyrog. But.. the scene in OOTA has him with his wand as he does so, so it's likely he can't raise the elder brain without it... Or at least doing so would drain his power significantly.
If the banshees have an automatic sense for Tenebrous' followers, then it would make sense to focus solely on making a new cult of Orcus in the west, and not risking provoking the banshees to roll through that low-CR area.
Though, it is useful that the most dangerous area in OOTA is the continental fungal colony of Auramycos, which has Death Tyrants strolling through it. That might be a good natural border.
Ah, got to go plug in a few hours of hard work. Be back to chat more later.
@Patt |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 12:05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ok, if you're going to do research, let me dot some I's and cross some T's for you.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/square/000/019/419/Untitled-1.gif
This is phenomenal...
Narfel is 1.8k miles east of Menzob', which fits the description of "thousands of miles" east...
"Since the temple's completion, the priests of Kiaransalee have relentlessly combated the Cult of the Goat's Head, active in the lands of Vaasa above."
Well, there's my conflict.. Talk about flanking. Wait- if Orcus got brought east against his will... Perhaps he is held in enemy territory? His 26 or so CR is definitely something that (without his wand) some cultists with great power could bind and hold captive. Holy CRAP. Vaasa v. Narfell in the modern day..? And if Damara owes Kira's conquest to their success, then Damara would be allied in this covert unholy cold war. If Orcus could start a new cult in the relatively WEAK AF North Upperdark, then they could get his wand and come free him. I imagine Orcus being patient and forboding in caprivity, ready to blast his way out of there the moment he gets his wand.
But that's just the first draft (not even all the way through your post, and now I'm wondering if Orcus might be freed by Illithid and shack up in their dead lair, raising Cyrog. But.. the scene in OOTA has him with his wand as he does so, so it's likely he can't raise the elder brain without it... Or at least doing so would drain his power significantly.
If the banshees have an automatic sense for Tenebrous' followers, then it would make sense to focus solely on making a new cult of Orcus in the west, and not risking provoking the banshees to roll through that low-CR area.
Though, it is useful that the most dangerous area in OOTA is the continental fungal colony of Auramycos, which has Death Tyrants strolling through it. That might be a good natural border.
Ah, got to go plug in a few hours of hard work. Be back to chat more later.
@Patt
One thing to note, a lot of those references are from 2e, so they're background lore and from approximately 1368'ish. The time of out of the abyss would be a full century and change later. So, some things happened in between as well. For instance, Kiaransalee and the aforementioned temple-city are involved in some godly shenanigans that end up with Kiaransalee's name being erased in at least Realmspace. However, she's back now after the second sundering (at least according to Mord's Tome of Foes). There are some of us that look at her and the Raven Queen as well and go "both forgot who they were... both died and came back... both are gods of fey beings of a sort ... both are gods involving death and vengeance... both are severe foes of Orcus... and we first hear of the Raven Queen when Kiaransalee goes away".
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/V%27elddrinnsshar
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 13:25:58
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quote:
One thing to note, a lot of those references are from 2e, so they're background lore and from approximately 1368'ish. The time of out of the abyss would be a full century and change later. So, some things happened in between as well. For instance, Kiaransalee and the aforementioned temple-city are involved in some godly shenanigans that end up with Kiaransalee's name being erased in at least Realmspace. However, she's back now after the second sundering (at least according to Mord's Tome of Foes). There are some of us that look at her and the Raven Queen as well and go "both forgot who they were... both died and came back... both are gods of fey beings of a sort ... both are gods involving death and vengeance... both are severe foes of Orcus... and we first hear of the Raven Queen when Kiaransalee goes away".
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/V%27elddrinnsshar
Okkkkay a few things:
1. Raven Queen name drop, and wanting a piece of the pie or by some bat-**** line of chaos. That means there's now a prompt for any possible Hex-Blades in this setting. Canon. There's a million ways you can make a hex-blade out of that in terms of the truth.
2. Orcus getting imprisoned seems highly unlikely. Maybe he's on the move. Does he know Disguise Self?
3. Not in 5e... does he know it in a previous edition..?
4. He also doesn't exactly look like he's doing any divine spell-casting in this form.
5. Oh my god NONE of these demon lords can be encountered in their lairs. There's gotta be a sliding scale for the access to those possibilities because as it is now, you are only ever going to be threatened by the Lair Actions if you are already suffering from the lair as well as the layer as well as the entire layer it's on. There's gotta be a way to get access to some of that while inhabiting a suitable planar fortress or stolen legendary creature lair, right?
6 {i]Oh my god[/] what even constitutes the source of that much power on the scale of a mortal world? Comparing CR... we're talking about legendary red dragon LAIR status. Those things define CONTINENTAL power structures! He can't build that up in 24 days, not without his wand or his divine status.
7 Holy cow he never could. Dude, without an abyssal lair and without divine status and without any ability to summon demons[/] Orcus is just a fat balor lvl 17 necromancer from the PHB. Slap legendary status on them and it's basically him against the world. He's on a timer- this is FAERUN. They just fought off Tiamat's avatar- no- like Tiamat herself as much as Orcus is himself right now- like last YEAR and she had a whole cult! Talk about hardcore iron-man; he has until some punk nation-state ganks him to learn about what the hell 5e is and how it works. If he loses a, considerable in the edition let's be fair he's one of the strongest things printed, mere 405 hit points, or 3222 max hp if hopped up on something, he has to go home and isn't coming back for maybe another one hundred years. This is like, some really strange isekai storytelling here from his perspective.
quote:
What the hell, holy **** my wand. *wand says **** you or maybe he does just grab it, and we say "yes we are bringing 50 zombies a day every other day alongside specialized undead for every surrounding biome, and play some HOI4 world conquesting in an area WOTC doesn't even care about right now. Cyrog can literally be erased from the narrative by making his scene in Gravenhollow literally about anything else.
x. Orcus is just tryna figure out how much has changed in a century. He hasn't been here since 3.5e, maybe that's what him and Grazz't are focusing on. maybe he just *does* have his wand, but he really can't make enough things a day to take over and he's chilling in the hella deep lower underdark looking for a legendary creature's lair to steal holy **** like maybe an elder brain while sending your own agents up to try and reach the surface and back for reconnaissance and you can really only get off one CR 5 a day while fending off the countless threats down here with a horde that constantly needs replenishing. Again- Orcus just seems like a civ builder quest mixed with some hardcore minecraft. It's kind of hilarious because you know he's getting yoinked by the heart ritual at the end of the game and has to battle (likely with only one or two castings of the wand before arriving) all the other demon lords and get sent back to the Abyss and counterattack Lolth- so all these conquests he makes are really not going to get anything accomplished long term.
5e really isn't the reason here- like the game design and safety-by-absurdity storytelling is obviously a cause for the theories to always dead end- but the *lore* of post-spellplague is kind of magical sometimes.
Because with no religion, no cult, no real allies, a pile of threats on this plane with him at the same time, and at least TWO death goddesses wanting to clean up his mess the minute he leaves, he really isn't going to get much done.
Hell, now we know why Grazz't isn't giving a single **** about this. Imagine being a legendary level 17 necromancer balor in [i]faerun[/] right now who is not welcome by very *real* gods, and he's also going to be forced to play Battle Royale with other demon lords in XX months. I don't know if I would hate that video-game level, or see it as hilarious. Again, with no available death cultists and his old cult in MEGA HIDING, and again NO DEMON SUMMONING ON ANY OF THESE FOLKS, his wand is the only thing that makes this fun. XD I'm okay with giving it to him for free from Gromph's folly.
O: I get my staff back from the pits of Pandesmos for [i]free?
Ao: Sure buddy, go nuts. Oh, and your divine essence was attributed to Tenebrous in your will since you weren't allowed to be a god anymore sooo.. he's got all your divine spellcasting.
O: That's fine I'll just go find him, where's he at.
Ao: In the astral plane- er, I mean the astral sea.
O: Fine- wait what's he doing there.
Ao: Well he's dead.
O: ...
Ao: So yeah, those cleric spells are basically shredded.
O: So I'm back to being a balor necromancer.
Ao: But you have your wand! |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 14:59:14
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Alright, we need some netheril experts
in here now. The original Brysis Khaem thread sussed the half-elven sorcoress to be a lathander follower who crafted or othereise possessed a sentient sun-blade. However, the long night mudt have pushed both of them so far from being Lawful Neutral that they both became diametrically opposed forced of evil and good, having no concept of order in their centuries in entombed since her un-powered floating tomb fe-waiiiit...
If in OOTA we have a previously floating tomb for a magical netherese noble that has since fallen deep within the earth, does that mean the un-powered mini mythallar is still THERE?
AAANYWAY my big issue is with her wraith. I want Yeonoghu and an Abyssal Ghoul general to vie with Orcus and others over recruiting her. A cr 5 undead that generates servants is HUGE in this conflict, and Yeonoghu wants someone to lead this new gnoll pack that exists now due to this magical tattoos retcon fiasco that I love.
However, I think i she's a creature of pure malice bent on erasing all life now, wouldn't the presence of orcus on this plane draw her attention? Also wouldnt this wraith have spellcasting and pehaps legendary and laur actions or is hat too much since she hasnt been encountered since before Karsusx Folly waiiiit a minute
What was Orcus when netheril was in its pre-karsus peak?
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:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 15:21:16
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
What was Orcus when netheril was in its pre-karsus peak?
From Grand History of the Realms
Narfell
Crell Dynasty Born Reigned Notes
Thargaun* –1025 –987/–946 First ruler of Tharos (until –946) and later Narfell; –946/–912 human worshiper of Orcus.
Derevan –963 –912/–890 First son of Thargaun.
Arthauld “the Accursed” –929 –890/–843 Second son of Derevan.
Belevan “the Unliving” –891 –843/–633 Son and sole heir of Arthauld; became a lich; overthrown by the “Demon Twins,” Ulthas and Ulthar.
Orgolath Dynasty
Ulthas “the Darkwing” –666 –633/–623 First half-fiend son (twin) of Ayanna Orgolath, who submitted herself to the demon lord Graz’zt; slain leading invasion of Mulhorand and Unther.
Ulthar “the Darkhorn” –666 –623/–578 Second half-fiend son (twin) of Ayanna Orgolath; succeeded his brother.
Vargaun –618 –578/–535 First tiefling son of Ulthar.
Horthaun –570 –535/–482 Third tiefling son of Vargaun.
Jelethar “the Blackscale” –520 –482/–475 First tiefling son of Horthaun; disappeared on expedition to Sunrise Mountains.
Morthass “the Cloven” –511 –475/–434 Second tiefling son of Horthaun.
Nardrad –468 –443/–399 Tiefling son and sole heir.
Orlathaun –420 –399 Human son and sole heir; slain by the Ayarch Jesthren, who claimed the Crown of Narfell.
Darakh Dynasty
Jesthren –431 –399/–322 Half-fiend son of Larnaeril Darakh, “the Fiendwitch,” who submitted herself to the demon lord Orcus.
Heldakar –367 –322/–299 Half-fiend son of Orcus; mother is of Darakh line and was sacrificed to Orcus at his birth as becomes tradition.
Yannos “the Slayer” –338 –299/–270 Half-fiend son of Orcus.
Garthelaun “the Goreclaw” –310 –270/–235 Half-fiend son of Orcus.
Ilithkar –259 –235/–181 Half-fiend son of Orcus; overthrown by cousin Rheligaun.
Rheligaun “the Horned” –245 –181/–150 Half-fiend son of Fraz’Urb-luu; disappeared following fall of Narfell; known as the Hidden Nentyarch.
*Monarchs of Narfell, whether male or female, carry the title of Nentyarch
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 19:47:16
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
What was Orcus when netheril was in its pre-karsus peak?
From Grand History of the Realms
Narfell
Crell Dynasty Born Reigned Notes
Thargaun* –1025 –987/–946 First ruler of Tharos (until –946) and later Narfell; –946/–912 human worshiper of Orcus.
Derevan –963 –912/–890 First son of Thargaun.
Arthauld “the Accursed” –929 –890/–843 Second son of Derevan.
Belevan “the Unliving” –891 –843/–633 Son and sole heir of Arthauld; became a lich; overthrown by the “Demon Twins,” Ulthas and Ulthar.
Orgolath Dynasty
Ulthas “the Darkwing” –666 –633/–623 First half-fiend son (twin) of Ayanna Orgolath, who submitted herself to the demon lord Graz’zt; slain leading invasion of Mulhorand and Unther.
Ulthar “the Darkhorn” –666 –623/–578 Second half-fiend son (twin) of Ayanna Orgolath; succeeded his brother.
Vargaun –618 –578/–535 First tiefling son of Ulthar.
Horthaun –570 –535/–482 Third tiefling son of Vargaun.
Jelethar “the Blackscale” –520 –482/–475 First tiefling son of Horthaun; disappeared on expedition to Sunrise Mountains.
Morthass “the Cloven” –511 –475/–434 Second tiefling son of Horthaun.
Nardrad –468 –443/–399 Tiefling son and sole heir.
Orlathaun –420 –399 Human son and sole heir; slain by the Ayarch Jesthren, who claimed the Crown of Narfell.
Darakh Dynasty
Jesthren –431 –399/–322 Half-fiend son of Larnaeril Darakh, “the Fiendwitch,” who submitted herself to the demon lord Orcus.
Heldakar –367 –322/–299 Half-fiend son of Orcus; mother is of Darakh line and was sacrificed to Orcus at his birth as becomes tradition.
Yannos “the Slayer” –338 –299/–270 Half-fiend son of Orcus.
Garthelaun “the Goreclaw” –310 –270/–235 Half-fiend son of Orcus.
Ilithkar –259 –235/–181 Half-fiend son of Orcus; overthrown by cousin Rheligaun.
Rheligaun “the Horned” –245 –181/–150 Half-fiend son of Fraz’Urb-luu; disappeared following fall of Narfell; known as the Hidden Nentyarch.
*Monarchs of Narfell, whether male or female, carry the title of Nentyarch
orcus tieflings east of the anauroch desert, jeez. There's your Shadow Sorceror (or a very silly divine soul sorceror).
Although I have got to figure out what the sorcoress from Netheril would know regarding Orcus. I know Narfel is all up on that demon lord goodness, but what about the Netheril nobility? This wraith is gonna have to be significant to cap off the first large arc for the party's adventure, and I want them to know about at least one demon lord by then. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
Edited by - PattPlays on 04 May 2020 19:47:52 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 21:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
I know Narfel is all up on that demon lord goodness, but what about the Netheril nobility?
From GHotR
–339 DR Year of Sundered Webs
The archwizard Larloch escapes the destruction of his floating enclave
Jiksidur, which crashes on the northern borders of Narfell. He discovers the ruins of Orbedal, the floating enclave of his rival Rhaugilath “the Ageless,” and builds present-day Warlock’s Crypt [1351]. He also discovers the remains of Rhaugilath, whom he binds to his will after a fierce battle, making him
the first of his many lich servitors. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2020 : 08:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
I know Narfel is all up on that demon lord goodness, but what about the Netheril nobility?
From GHotR
–339 DR Year of Sundered Webs
The archwizard Larloch escapes the destruction of his floating enclave
Jiksidur, which crashes on the northern borders of Narfell. He discovers the ruins of Orbedal, the floating enclave of his rival Rhaugilath “the Ageless,” and builds present-day Warlock’s Crypt [1351]. He also discovers the remains of Rhaugilath, whom he binds to his will after a fierce battle, making him
the first of his many lich servitors.
Went to look up the contact, and this was from the realms wiki:
quote:
"In time, Larloch rose to become Sorcerer-King of the enclave of Jiksidur in Netheril.[3] At some point, he fashioned the Death Moon Orb, a powerful artifact that allowed him to charm and mentally control the members of his court, to spy on his enemies and learn their plans, and to summon powerful fiends from the Outer Planes. It did so successfully, and Larloch ruled for many years, gaining great power. In time, he underwent a transformation into a lich.[7] [9]"
So, not only is this living bastard still over there, but if he contacted fiends for the secrets to lichdom, then he absolutely would have gone through either Tenebrous or Orcus in some fashion. The question is if I can find out Orcus' status as a god in the year of Karsus' folly...
Here's the thing- I still don't think Orcus would want to have anything to do with this entity- he's phenomnally STRONGER than Orcus -and- currently has at least the same number of lich minions as Orcus could conjure up by the time they discover one another.
Again- this is a scary place for a balor with a wand... And if he's learned anything from Zuggytmoy and Fraz'Urblu, he doesn't want to get involved in any planar binding rituals.
Wizards like Larloch here are not people he would seek out unless they had total reverence for Orcus. Take away the epic levels on Larloch and sure, it's dead even between them. But Orcus only has the wand, and Larloch has a million magic items. So, if they teamed up that'd be great but Larloch might prefer to do something far less polite if he realizes how vulnerable Orcus is here.
Jesus Gromph Baenrae, you caught these bastards with their pants down. Lolth is a real pain in the ass goddess to the rest of the Abyss.
Edit: However with him and Grazz't both having so many offsprings' descendants in there.. perhaps the whole nation might unite under one, the other, or both should they appear?
What is the East like in the years of 5e? Do we have any modern content?
From the SCAG:
quote:
The Cold Lands. The nations of Damara, Narfell, Sos-sal, and Vaasa, known collectively to most Faerunians as the Cold La nds, rest near the Great Glacier in the cold, dry environs of the northeast. Few outside the region have much interest in what goes on here, except for those in the immediately surrounding lands, who fear a resur-gence of the ancient evils of the region- though they ar-
en't fearful enough to do more than send an adventuring party or two into the area to investigate. In Damara, the usurper King Yarin Frostmantle sits on the throne of the Dragon bane dynasty, while his peo-ple complain about his tyranny and the growing threat from demons across the country. In Narfell, skilled rid-ers and archers hunt, raid, and are gradually reclaiming their heritage as a great nation of mages who treated with devils. The Warlock Knights of Vaasa threaten to break the bounds of their nation and invade Damara, the Moonsea, or both, while some of its members sus-piciously eye the ominously silent Castle P erilous, per -haps planning another excursion to the place. The tiny nation of Sossal trades with its neighbors, but shares little of itself with the wider world.
And more specifically to the point, " who fear a resur-gence of the ancient evils of the region".
Could Narfel be the scene of a big shakeup? Let's think bigger picture. Imagine that the region is visited from below by Orcus and an illithid colony he just happened upon when arriving far in the east from where the spell was cast, and is causing violence so heinous that within days there are flickerings of darkness across the surface for a hundred miles as weaker dark forces flee his ever growing horde.
Meanwhile, Grazz't- who has access to TELEPORT three freaking times a DAY, visits public places looking for his children, as he likely has no way of contacting them here. Also, does he take the Wave of Sorrows with him and begin cutting down and dominating regional warlords?
The big picture quesiton here is what I'm really after though, not the details. These two are going to get yoinked away and sent back to the Abyss in XX months. What would Narfel look like the week after they leave? The threats here are that they both represent engines of straight-line growth, and their minions quickly can be pushed back once the sources of the scourges are gone. What would your "post rage of demons" Narfel setting guide look like?
@Patt |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
Edited by - PattPlays on 05 May 2020 09:19:35 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2020 : 13:05:41
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So, don't want to quote all of that, so I'll make points.
I don't believe that Larloch would have HAD to have reached out to Orcus or Tenebrous (because Tenebrous in theory didn't exist yet) for his lich creation ritual. In fact, I would have an entirely different reason for Larloch to have been there. Essentially, we all think "man, Karsus was daring", who would try to turn themselves into a god with magic? My theories though are that just before Karsus fell there were a LOT of ascensions that happened. I believe Jergal "stepped down" and raised up the Dark Three (Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul) willingly just before Karsus' Folly.
I also believe that the realms "node" of Mellifleur ascended via magical accident that drew on Bane's power AS he was being risen to godhood. I believe that "Mellifleur" was a Narfellian spellcaster that was attempting his lich ritual at that time using a lich ritual which he'd "discovered" on another world where there was a lich god named "Mellifleur" who had arisen via … yep, magical mishap during his lich ritual that drew upon the power of a god. Essentially, I view Mellifleur as a collective consciousness that provides a modified ritual of endless night to spellcasters that can siphon divine power in order to make THEM a god. At the same time, this ritual actually WIPES the name of the individual being risen (similar to what happened to Orcus and Kiaransalee) and replaces the references with the name "Mellifleur". The Mellifleur collective then keeps the memories of those ascended, but they work as a sort of collective consciousness. This is also why Mellifleur is noted as having siphoned different gods in different worlds AND why he is noted as having multiple phylacteries.
Why do I mention all that? Because I think the Netherese knew about these ascensions. Larloch (as a young Chosen of Mystryl) was possibly flying Jiksidur over in Narfell to find the modified ritual of endless night to fuel his own changeover to lichdom. However, Larloch studied the ritual and found the "trap". He then modified the ritual such that it would turn him into an a special kind lich, able to command other liches, but not a god. Lords of Darkness dates Larloch as "nearly 2 thousand years old" in 1372 DR, so in THEORY he was born after -628 DR, so at the time of Karsus' Folly he was maybe a few hundred years old (for best effect, I'd say maybe 200 to 280).
Meanwhile, Karsus may have got it in his head that he could just devise his own strategy. Perhaps both of them knew the truth of the "Mellifleur Collective" and perhaps both of them even knew the true name of the individual who had ascended and been "overwritten".
All of this may have been going on as the Netherese Pantheon itself was undergoing mass changes as well, with Tyche splitting into Tymora and Beshaba… and possibly prior to that Amaunator changing into Lathander and At'ar while "Amon" was kicked into the place where Vestiges go… along with Kozah becoming Talos and losing an eye (possibly absorbing/containing the power of Entropy during Karsus' Folly, as a means to threaten the world more)…. Exactly WHEN on all of these would have to be mapped out, but I suspect many to have occurred just prior to Karsus' Folly. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 05 May 2020 13:12:49 |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2020 : 21:43:47
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I'm going to do three things in this post. 1, respond to the continuing deliciousness that is sleyvas' distilling of what I'm calling "common lore" from the halls here at Candlekeep. 2, I'm going to touch once more on the Netherese Wraith in the room briefly, as that encounter is the current end-goal of the current campaign I'm running in which I am testing out this new OOTA lore. I hope to get some undead powers in to vie for her to recruit her, but I don't know who would be able to detect her from any considerable distance. 3, I want to bring Juibilex in as another example of how to flesh out the white-space of OOTA. There is an encounter themed around Juibilex in the early chapters of the book, and I am using that to pinpoint where I think Juibilex emerged onto the material plane.
_1_
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Meanwhile, Karsus may have got it in his head that he could just devise his own strategy. Perhaps both of them knew the truth of the "Mellifleur Collective" and perhaps both of them even knew the true name of the individual who had ascended and been "overwritten".
Sounds like one hell of a high school lunch table, here. Also thank you for the continued beauty that is this floaty canon of avid readers and theory-crafters. This ascension stuff is something I'm definitely going to keep in my back pocket..
_2_
quote:
All of this may have been going on as the Netherese Pantheon itself was undergoing mass changes as well, with Tyche splitting into Tymora and Beshaba… and possibly prior to that Amaunator changing into Lathander and At'ar while "Amon" was kicked into the place where Vestiges go… along with Kozah becoming Talos and losing an eye (possibly absorbing/containing the power of Entropy during Karsus' Folly, as a means to threaten the world more)…. Exactly WHEN on all of these would have to be mapped out, but I suspect many to have occurred just prior to Karsus' Folly.
Mhm. Which in addition to the theories in Brysis Khaem's thread (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21730) that makes her a predecessor to almost this entire lineage of characters.
I know the topic of the thread is Orcus, but I still find it incredible that a pre-karsus half-elf noble sorcoress powerful enough to turn into a wraith over the ages is just interred in an undiscovered ruin in what seems to be the most heavily scoured terrain where Faerun's adventurers have actively swept clean over thousands of years for netherese ruins- and not only is this one completely untouched but it is also intimate in scope and possesses what we consider to be an absolutely unique sentient sun-blade devoted to amaunator, PRE-DIVIDE.
_3_
The party is about to scour the Oozing Temple, another low-level region I have jacked up. Who wants to hear about some Juibilex and Ghuanadaur goodness? Because whoo boy, this week is going to be quite the tiptoe quest for me. I'll keep it short since it's more on the topic of my Magical Tattoos thread, but this does concern more demon lord white-space filling.
Here are my points of interest, and then I will list a timeline of events concerning my additions to the setting.
A: A party member is a GOO Warlock (surface Drow female) of Ghuanadaur, of whom Juibilex is tied very intimately to. So... they have been having erratic visions ever since getting close to this temple. My big end-goal to motivate the character later on is honestly a thrilling literary dynamic. On the one hand, the cosmic entity I will proceed to refer to as Big G simply wants (after learning what's going on through the Warlock's Eldritch Sight invocation) to task the PC and their party with destroying Juibilex's form and sending it back to the Abyss where it can restore the connection it has with big G. However, Juibilex and its children demand that they can't go back to the Abyss until Zuggytmoy's plans are thwarted. A very endearing circumstance to be stuck in, but it's nothing I can introduce any time soon because Juibilex and its minions can't possibly know any of this yet, as it has been only a few weeks since emerging onto this world at this point.
B: Juibilex, in my canon now, emerged into the world of Toril through the small off-shoot cave area near the tunnel entrance to the Oozing Temple. I have him emerging here, beside a temple that has become his over the ages, and I have him heading straight out of there. (squishing down to a 5x5 tunnel, which is hilarious. Yes, give a CR 20+ demon lord amorphous and squish it through tiny tunnels. I am all about that.) As it emerges and immediately seeks out its rival (for some reason), it leaves a trail of demonic slick along every inch of the walls, coating them in the demon lord's essence. It heads eastward, toward Auromycos, where it can be off doing nothing important until the grand return in the finale with Zuggytmoy at the wedding at Auromycos' core.
My HUGE PROBLEM is actually a major plot-hole in OOTA that I have mentioned earlier. (Regarding the earlier plot-hole on Zuggytmoy, it's canon that she appeared near Neverlight Grove and likely would be able to learn about the Core of Auromycos through their lore.) How does Juibilex hunt down Zuggytmoy? What, at this early point, do the minions of Juibilex know any of this? Do the two have such a violent competition between one another that Juibilex would know that she's here on this plane the moment he emerges onto it?
Why do I care what his slimey spawn know? Well...
C: I have added an Alkilith to this dungeon. Right where Juibilex emerged, in a nook in the wall, is a growing baby Alkilith demon. This gives me sooo much more to work with. This demon can, according to the 3e Fiend Folio, command oozes as a spell-like ability. This will come into play later when I give my timeline, but I do expect our Warlock to come into contact with this Alkilith. The party also has a Yuan-Ti rogue who knows Abyssal, to enable more elaborate communication. I want this to be where I name-drop Juibilex, as well as where I have the party make a decision on whether to leave this cancerous demonic growth alone, attempt to destroy it, or do something unique like taking a vial of its essence with them to take back to the surface to confirm if this story of being "born from the shuddering body of the lord of oozes itself which now roams this world". I just don't know how much I want to have it tell them..
D: While writing this post, I was wondering about what kind of mobile, intelligent, and specialized oozes Juibilex could spawn to get his information game up to date. I think a way to get Juibilex to learn more about what his foe plans to do, especially when he spawns just a dozen miles away from Auramycos, would be via the Oblex. I don't think Juibilex consumes memories when he dissolves sentient creatures, but Oblexes (an original creation in 5e) can. Perhaps he sends out Oblexes into the underdark to consume the servants of Zuggytmoy to find out what she is doing? Juibilex may assume any walking fungal creature to be on her side, even if they don't know of her yet. But that makes me wonder how Zuggytmoy's spore servants and the Myconid compare with the Oblex's memory consumption.. these two really are a disastrous combination of forces.
So here's what I have planned, chronologically...
quote:
X weeks ago, Juibilex appears n the material plane by Gromph Baenrae's "Ao take the wheel" spell, equipped with some serious underwriting by Lolth, and the big jelly spawns in in this one mapped out room near his temple and a split tunnel leading out into the greater underdark.
_
X-1 weeks ago, Ghuanadaur senses his connection with Juibilex severed. (If this spell took Orcus and brought him here in his simplest, least divine form, then I bet it brings Juibilex here as an equally simple entity with all ties to their cosmic alter in the big G. This would effectively blind big G to everything going on in the Abyss.
_
X-2 weeks ago, Big G begins connecting with a warlock they have in the region, effectively using them as their eyes to find out what the hell is happening.
_
Two days ago, the party discovers a backed-up underground river that has been filled with telepathic oozes of all shapes and sizes, whispering about a ceaseless hunger.
_
Yesterday, party has finally cleared away a whole variety of oddly sentient and telepathic oozes and breached into the temple, while holding off the body of water above with a clever use of Warding Wind. They splash around the moist dungeon and immediately proc two of the four Black Puddings there, and need to make a hasty retreat. In doing so, said warlock of big G gets knocked unconscious and was within ten HP of instant over-kill via getting dogged by the now three black puddings. They get pulled out into the watery safety above and will wake up next session healthy, but with partially ruined armor.
_
Meanwhile the three black puddings get washed away by the flooding water, and get pushed back into the range of the Alkilith. There, they are dominated and given sentience and made to wait in ambush as slaves to the Alkilith.
_
Today, the Warlock will wake from their near-death experience with some kind of command from Big G, likely boiling down to "learn, see, discover". They will then dive into the dungeon and possibly end up in the Alkilith's room, where anything could happen. I think adding an Alkilith to this dungeon is an absolute win in anyone's Out Of The Abyss game, as long as you aren't using the Oozing Temple with the original 1-3rd level prison escape party.
_
The warlock's player is currently clueless and supposes that the black pudding might have been sent by her patron to attack her, for whatever reason. Beyond that I'm really not sure how to handle the balance between exposition and foreshadowing without making the Alkilith know more than it and Juibilex even should.
Bleh. What a BWOT. At least I have this all archived now for my own notes and for future web-searches on the topics.
@Patt |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2020 : 02:22:28
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"Archfi ends and ParagonsThe archfi ends in Book of Vile Darkness—the demon princes and archdevils—inhabit the layers of the Nine Hells and the Abyss just as noted in that book. Of the demon princes described there, Orcus and more recently Graz’zt have probably played the most signifi -cant roles in Faerûn, while others not detailed there have occupied more prominent positions than Demogorgon, Juiblex (whose name and guise have been appropriated by Ghaunadaur in Faerûn), and the others. These distinctively Faerûnian demon princes include Ba-phomet, Eltab, Kostchtchie, Pazrael, and Yeenoghu. Outsider devil princes include Gargauth (now a god) and Malkizid."
From the 3e Player's Guide to Faerun, which mentions big G a LOT.
I'm thinking of taking a more in-setting perspective on all of this... in Faerun, perhaps I don't distinguish between Juibilex and Ghuanadaur? From the way this is written, I feel like outside of explicit demonic activity, would the citizens of the Underdark (who apparently worship big G very commonly) simply see Juibilex as big G? Should I even bother to distinguish between them until further darkness is revealed to the party?
Perhaps I take a lighter hand with Juibilex's reveal...
Big Question: Does big G still have their intrinsic connection with Juibilex or not? What is their relationship in this scene? Are they finally two individual entities, or is big G always no different from Juibilex except for the fiendish identity of the creature?
@Patt
_
Delimbiyr Vale is also listed later in the book as a place that favors big G, and has a history of demonic involvement. I suppose if Juibilex in his roiling bubbly intelligence did want to seek followers on this world, it may go forth presenting itself as Ghuanadaur down near Daggerford... Perhaps that is the direction I should send him off to, and to discover Auromycos along their slow, agonizing journey through the underdark.
_
The Equally impressive Underdark from 3.0 also lists big G as someone Drow may turn to when they feel betrayed by Lolth... perhaps that useless NPC Asha Vandree may be tugged at by multiple pseudo divines. We have big G, the death goddess, and so much more. What a puzzle this setting is when you start bringing in old lore..
_
Yo, Avolakias are terrible.
"Xrq'nkvzk led a tribe of avolakia worshipers of Ghaunadaur that had founded the Wormbarrow community. They offered refuge to adventurers using drow disguises in exchange for corpses as payment. They used the corpses to animate them as zombies."
From https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Xrq%27nkvzk
_
Hey hey hey look what else is SouthWest of the Juibilex temple! (Which I have placed on the east edge of the High Forest)
Eryndlyn! Yet another settlement in the Sword Coast (underdark) that has an explicitly big G (and friend) cult there!
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eryndlyn
Oh... oh the spellplague sent the whole city to ruin after big G and friend reclaimed the city from Lolthlites.
Well ****. Hey, Jaezred Chaulssin is still shacked up there apparently... A demon-weave.. there is so much history in this damn region.
_
Okay okay okay- one last note from Underdark. Llurth Dreir. A whole city of filthy oozes with not only a ruling big G cult, but an avatar.
By 1479 DR, it was warned that, after the city's fall, the avatar of Ghaunadaur still dwelt in the ruins, inside an open vault. It was said to be a gargantuan amorphous thing.[2]
This world is.. just endlessly connected. So many questions.. what would happen if Juibilex himself met this avatar? What are the implications.. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
Edited by - PattPlays on 07 May 2020 03:09:35 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2020 : 12:50:52
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Personally, if you really wanted to pursue a campaign with both Ghaunadaur and Juiblex in it, I'd play it up as one attempting to absorb the other (possibly literally). From a player's perspective, I see them getting very confused. This is one instance where I see the old rule of "when two entities with the same portfolios show up, they go to war". Juiblex is cast out from his home realm, and this is Ghaunadaur's home turf. I see Ghaunadaur winning out. However, he may "win out" by essentially somehow taking control of Juiblex as a powerful monstrosity to be sent forth in the name of Ghaunadaur and conquer something so as to spread his name.
Oh and on this statement
What a puzzle this setting is when you start bringing in old lore..
Yeah, you have no idea. Especially with the stuff happening in 4e and 5e, because new writers are being brought in who don't have the history from 1e,2e,3e... so they spin something new. Worse is that a lot of us old hats read something 20 years ago, forgot it because we never used it, revisit it 20 years later and it sparks an idea that NEVER would have had a chance in earlier editions because new ideas have come out since then. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2020 : 13:55:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Personally, if you really wanted to pursue a campaign with both Ghaunadaur and Juiblex in it, I'd play it up as one attempting to absorb the other (possibly literally). From a player's perspective, I see them getting very confused. This is one instance where I see the old rule of "when two entities with the same portfolios show up, they go to war". Juiblex is cast out from his home realm, and this is Ghaunadaur's home turf. I see Ghaunadaur winning out. However, he may "win out" by essentially somehow taking control of Juiblex as a powerful monstrosity to be sent forth in the name of Ghaunadaur and conquer something so as to spread his name.
Oh and on this statement
What a puzzle this setting is when you start bringing in old lore..
Yeah, you have no idea. Especially with the stuff happening in 4e and 5e, because new writers are being brought in who don't have the history from 1e,2e,3e... so they spin something new. Worse is that a lot of us old hats read something 20 years ago, forgot it because we never used it, revisit it 20 years later and it sparks an idea that NEVER would have had a chance in earlier editions because new ideas have come out since then.
Well one way or another, juibilex's form here I am interpreting to be a temporary and purely corporeal one. Meanwhile big G is definitively non-corporeal outside of that one avatar hundreds of miles away (again, Juibilex is slow as balls. It's not exactly a cross country monster.)
So outside of the inevitable Dark Talisman ritual (where all the demon lords get drawn to a showdown where they can all be weakened destroyed) Juibilex is fated to help stop Zuggytmoy, and die shortly after dissolving the queen of fungi's form. Juibilex, as with orcus, is incredibly powerful but totally out-matched when it comes to their domain rivals in Faerun.
Dear god... is the warlock going to be tasked with... eating Juibilex?
Like, how else would big G accomplish their goal of doing more than just exiling the demon lord. If big G lets the pudding king and my alkilith become powerful enough in their worship, and if the followers of big G can't really tell the difference in the two, then I agree with you. This is bad news on worse scales than just "I can't see in the abyss anynore." Big G's title is at stake. Big G risks forever losing some followers if Juibilex is allowed to simply retreat- now an independent monster. However, world war juibilex over here doesnt want his OTHER rival zuggytmoy to ascend to near godhood and have a colony here to fuel the war machine.
For now, I think the narrative should be "find out who is this false idol these slimes are worshipping" whoh evolves to "GET JUIBILEX AND EAT HIM" to Juibilex's agents pleading with the party that there's something more important at stake here.
It's such a whacky moral quandary! The warlock doesnt want to lose their patron's domain to a demon lord. However nobody wants to let Zuggytmoy win. But letting Juibilex loose to return to the Abyss as a free agent is delaying the problem for another millennia (classic fantasy problem solving right there). |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2020 : 14:14:34
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Here is what I finally decided to send to the warlock.
quote:
DARK STARS
an inky black nothing, dotted with pinpricks of otherworldly light. Galaxies wink out and are cloaked in darkness as some ancient presence washes over them. Universes seem to turn inside-out to reveal pieces of a larger whole.
You are in the far realms. The blind eternities. The vast oblivion. You are without a body, in a place so far from the astral reality of the soul. You are but a conscious speck of star-dust. Still, the phantom burning on your back can still be felt.
The cosmic color twists, and from the gargantuan shadows about you emerge shards of a purple entity. The cosmos reshapes and contorts, revealing a jig-saw form of one large purple eye. It it looking toward you, but any sense of eye co tact is lost on you.
You feel wet, just at where your ankles would be. Turning down, there is a inky, jelatinous churning snot that clings to a part of you. Many black expressionless eyes bubble up and burst from the fetid pool.
"IDENTIFY"
The word strikes you like a terrible migrane, and yiur vision lowers as you crumble weakly down onto the floor. Attempting to brace your fall, you flounder in the couple of inches of black roiling diseased pudding, drowning on the front step of the cosmos of Ghuanadaur.
"CONSUME"
Your vision goes black, but your mind cokes alive. You feel that your patron's dominance has left you. You are beneath the waters now. All around you are oozes, growing eyes and mouths and limbs. They kneel, praying. the language is one you do not understand, but it is familiar.
You hear the creeping sound of an ungodly sounding mountain of black pudding rolling up behind you. This is no longer a vision of far flung realities, but a nightmare of telepathic perversion. Turning to look, you wake.
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:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
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Where is Orcus? // A new OOTA subplot
