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Mage
Acolyte
Brazil
1 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Aug 2002 : 16:18:39
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HI!!!
I recently sent that messages for the list but I didn't obtain a lot of answer, and therefore I continue with the same doubts. I will repeat mine doubt again, and I please ask, that explain to me those you doubt.
1- The gods (in the last editions) could always use practically any spells of any level and without components, they literally altered the reality in the way that they desire, but now with those new rules (Deities & Demigods e Faiths and Pantheons) they seem that weakened, nor Alter Reality can make very grandiose things (compared to the gods, logical). Where are the powers that make the gods to create Volcanos, to raise mountains and things of the type? "Done" that are above the mortal capacities.
2- How the gods that doesn't have divine spell or what have only access the divine spell of low-level (5th level, for instance), do they can garant spell for one of their followers of 20th levels, that will have access at the 9th spell level, but don't the own gods have access at that spell level? Is an example Eilistraee that only has 5 cleric levels, and garant spell for clerics of 19 or + levels, how is that possible if she cannot do that?
Excuse me for my English...
Mage!!!
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Edited by - Alaundo on 09 Oct 2002 14:11:36
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Ditalidas
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
127 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 : 12:49:45
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I think this is an very good question... but it might be posted under the wrong thread.
I cannot help you though, for I have no answer.
I do hope somebody has an answer to this, for the question made me curious too. |
'All that is' is also 'All that is not' for the one cannot exist without the other.
Sweet Water and Light Laughter |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 : 12:57:09
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Buenos dias Mage,
(that's about as far as my spanish/portugese goes)
Of the top of my head I can give you an answer to the second part of your question.
The listed statistics, like classes, powers etc, are for the avatars of the deities, not the deities themselves. In the example of Eilistraee, her manifestation on Toril has the spellcasting abilities of a 5th level cleric. Eilistraee as a deity has much more powers, which are not representable in statistics (and should never be attempted anyway). She is therefore quite capable of granting the higher level spells to her priests.
For the first part of your question I would have to look into my books. Unfortunately I don't currently have these at hand. Maybe one of the other sages can answer you in the mean time. |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 09 Oct 2002 16:01:57 |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 : 05:09:02
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I may answer to the first question. Actually, what do you think is a 16th level spell or more? It's what the avatars can cast -and i just say avatar-. Can you imagine a mage who can cast prismatic light every round of his life, and in the same round can also cast a retarded maximized fire ball and a second acid ball... And it's just a little idea i have in my mind, i'm sure you can quickly think about more devastating effects. I say again, it's just the avatars...
Look at Tyr, Selune, Shar... with caution. They are full of power.
You don't speak worse than me, and i don't ask anybody to excuse me for my english... heu, Should I?
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2020 : 02:11:19
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Acolyte Mage,
I normally respond to such things with very long posts, to include exhaustive references. However, I feel it best to respond a little differently, but for a good reason (at least I think so!).
The brass tacks of this kind of thing is that you need to make the gods what you want them to be. I completely sympathize with your outlook on what gods should be. When you look back at the beginning when it was a few primary gods and the primordials, there was a lot, controlled by a little. As other gods came on the scene, started carving out a niche for themselves, it seems like the creators of the Realms turned the gods into the petty, in fighting gods of Greece and Rome. And petty they became! lol
I myself don't run the gods exactly like you would see them going about their business in certain accessories, etc. If so, it gets a little...trite, frankly.
The Time of Troubles got this bizarre flurry of excitement from people when it was the deities coming down from the Heavens for fight club (we don't talk about it). However, it really demeaned that presence, that awe, one should have when a deity shows up. It made them look like high schoolers fighting in front of elementary school students in my opinion. I still keep the ToT in the setting of course, but I just glance over that a lot and not have it impact my campaigns really at all.
AS far as the mind boggling silly avatar stats, I can't say anything more at all: it's dumb. They are trying to conflate the mortal abilities (stat blocks) with gods to maybe make them feel.......able to be defeated? haha I don't know, but it is/was childish.
Make those gods badass man! :)
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Mage
HI!!!
I recently sent that messages for the list but I didn't obtain a lot of answer, and therefore I continue with the same doubts. I will repeat mine doubt again, and I please ask, that explain to me those you doubt.
1- The gods (in the last editions) could always use practically any spells of any level and without components, they literally altered the reality in the way that they desire, but now with those new rules (Deities & Demigods e Faiths and Pantheons) they seem that weakened, nor Alter Reality can make very grandiose things (compared to the gods, logical). Where are the powers that make the gods to create Volcanos, to raise mountains and things of the type? "Done" that are above the mortal capacities.
2- How the gods that doesn't have divine spell or what have only access the divine spell of low-level (5th level, for instance), do they can garant spell for one of their followers of 20th levels, that will have access at the 9th spell level, but don't the own gods have access at that spell level? Is an example Eilistraee that only has 5 cleric levels, and garant spell for clerics of 19 or + levels, how is that possible if she cannot do that?
Excuse me for my English...
Mage!!!
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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rodrigoalcanza
Seeker
Brazil
67 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2020 : 19:58:39
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| Thank you! I made this post a long time ago (with another login). I understand and agree with you, in recent years I have dealt with the gods in this way, but at the time, 2002, I was very attached to the canonical rules. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 01:38:46
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I say the gods walk and suffer and burn and learn and suffer some more.
Too many greater gods walk Faerun. We need lessar god to fill i n the gaps. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 13:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Acolyte Mage,
I normally respond to such things with very long posts, to include exhaustive references. However, I feel it best to respond a little differently, but for a good reason (at least I think so!).
The brass tacks of this kind of thing is that you need to make the gods what you want them to be. I completely sympathize with your outlook on what gods should be. When you look back at the beginning when it was a few primary gods and the primordials, there was a lot, controlled by a little. As other gods came on the scene, started carving out a niche for themselves, it seems like the creators of the Realms turned the gods into the petty, in fighting gods of Greece and Rome. And petty they became! lol
I myself don't run the gods exactly like you would see them going about their business in certain accessories, etc. If so, it gets a little...trite, frankly.
The Time of Troubles got this bizarre flurry of excitement from people when it was the deities coming down from the Heavens for fight club (we don't talk about it). However, it really demeaned that presence, that awe, one should have when a deity shows up. It made them look like high schoolers fighting in front of elementary school students in my opinion. I still keep the ToT in the setting of course, but I just glance over that a lot and not have it impact my campaigns really at all.
AS far as the mind boggling silly avatar stats, I can't say anything more at all: it's dumb. They are trying to conflate the mortal abilities (stat blocks) with gods to maybe make them feel.......able to be defeated? haha I don't know, but it is/was childish.
Make those gods badass man! :)
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Mage
HI!!!
I recently sent that messages for the list but I didn't obtain a lot of answer, and therefore I continue with the same doubts. I will repeat mine doubt again, and I please ask, that explain to me those you doubt.
1- The gods (in the last editions) could always use practically any spells of any level and without components, they literally altered the reality in the way that they desire, but now with those new rules (Deities & Demigods e Faiths and Pantheons) they seem that weakened, nor Alter Reality can make very grandiose things (compared to the gods, logical). Where are the powers that make the gods to create Volcanos, to raise mountains and things of the type? "Done" that are above the mortal capacities.
2- How the gods that doesn't have divine spell or what have only access the divine spell of low-level (5th level, for instance), do they can garant spell for one of their followers of 20th levels, that will have access at the 9th spell level, but don't the own gods have access at that spell level? Is an example Eilistraee that only has 5 cleric levels, and garant spell for clerics of 19 or + levels, how is that possible if she cannot do that?
Excuse me for my English...
Mage!!!
A lot of the issue with divine statistics come from deities being turned into templates rather than unique beings, compounded by the fact that F&P and D&D came out early in 3.5e's life cycle, so you have things like Bane the ultimate tyrant not having paladin of tyranny levels. The result was rather anemic.
Ideally, deities should have been given avatar statistics and then made unique, with unique abilities and powers, rather than a list of template abilities. Even their weapons should be unique, one of a kind things; Talos's spears could really be live lightning bolts with the critical range of a spear, for instance. Less "+5 x of y" and more:
"Talos wields lightning bolts as his weapon of choice, which he can use as melee or ranged weapons. Talos' lightning deals 10d6 damage, half of which is electricity and half of which is raw divine power. His lightning bolts otherwise have the critical range and multiplier of a longspear; on a critical hit, the bolts detonate into a chain lightning effect cast as Talos' caster level."
Or
"Mystra is the mother of all magic. Her spells always benefit from Epic Spell Focus, and additionally attempts made to save against or dispel her magic must be made twice, taking the lowest roll. She can draw on the Weave whenever she casts a spell, allowing her to cast an extra spell every round up to her maximum spell level, in addition to the actions she can already take each round."
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2020 : 06:15:28
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Do you guys recall the Cat Lord??
I remember him in 1ED as a badass. I think 3.5 epic did him some service as a possible divine level entity throughout the realms.
I think he was like a level 37'th rogue or something. From the Greyhawk setting, but very easily converted to Forgotten realms. Love that pale/Dark bastard. Anyone who can summon 6 Dire Tigers at will is F*#^ing asinine powerful. Add Divine rank 0 and you have a demi-god of thieves and rogues that would match Vhaeraun and Mask and Erevan Ilesere on those things that a thief would consider important.
Saransallithil Eversword: Lycanthrope Moon Half-elf male of Telflammar. CR; 40. Rogue 30/ Perfect Wight 10. Turned into a Cat-Lycanthrope at the age of 12 by a Werecat in the universe of Greyhawk, he was thrown into Faerun by a cabal of evil elven high mages on his home plane. Thinking him banished they forgot all about him 700 years ago.
It appears that he has achieved god-hood during his time on Faerun and is now a Demi-god unto himself, gaining the Divine rank of 0, he cares only for all things cat related. He is whimsical and flighty, Frivolous and uncertain at all times. He is stealthy and unseen to a point of mythical proportions. The Master of all Cats.
For his true stats and background go to the Epic Level Handbook and read up on his discography as WoTc sees fit.
But I gave you a better example of how he would fit in Faerun.
Feel free to correct me.
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2020 : 09:46:05
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The Cat Lord has never been a god; the most was that the current Cat Lord had a sidebar suggesting he could be a quasideity. 5e changed this, but there has never been any veneration of the Cat Lord in any book.
5e postulates that the Cat Lord created the tabaxi; the problem is that 'Cat Lord' is a title. There have been many Cat Lords; it was male in 1e, female in 2e, then male again in 3e. It's not entirely impossible, but that doesn't mean the current Cat Lord is their creator; maybe their creator Cat Lord suffered the fate of Gorellik and was usurped by Zaltec and co. |
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The New Rules of the Gods!!!
