| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 22:52:09
|
|
Certain planes like Limbo were lost due to the Spellplague, making the Great Wheel fundamentally incomplete. Until I learned of this, I subscribed whole-heartedly the Great Wheel cosmology, but now am full of doubt. I suppose I could subscribe to the World Tree cosmology, in so much as the branches would be able to connect the planes without having any particular order, but I am uneasy fully commuting to such an idea. The Wheel made SO much sense.
|
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 23:29:24
|
| The Wheel is back as of the Second Sundering. The Spellplague doesn't have influence on the current era. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
 |
|
|
Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 23:38:15
|
| The Spellplague destroyed the World Tree cosmology of 3rd edition, which replaced the Great Wheel cosmology of 1st and 2nd edition. Then came the World Axis cosmology of 4th edition. The Great Wheel is evidently back as of 5th edition. |
|
|
|
LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1486 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 23:47:48
|
| The planes exist independently of the pantheon. The Faerunian pantheon is just one of many on the planes. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2020 : 00:17:07
|
If you accept any 4E lore (like the Spellplague) then you must accept all 4E lore (like the 4E cosmology and Abeir). If you accept WotC's version of post-4E lore then you tacitly accept their explanations that 4E and the changes described in 4E did happen.
You don't absolutely have to accept the whole package deal, of course, you could pick and choose and rewrite it all any way you like. But you'd basically be rewriting the whole edition anyways, a lot of work, and you'd basically have to contrive ways to fit all the incompatible problems together, also a lot of work. Many people keep buying WotC so they don't have to do the work and write all the books/lore for themselves.
If you don't accept 4E lore - "not in MY Realms!" - then no Spellplague, no broken old cosmos, no reconstructed new cosmos, no problem.
I've said it before - the rules edition and the Realmslore edition are always married, meant to stay together, incomplete when viewed alone. You can't ask questions about how 4E lore fits in pre-4E settings, they're meaningless. You don't have to ask questions about 4E lore in 4E settings, all the answers are already given. The questions aren't relevant in post-4E settings, they've already been discarded from or expanded into the "historical" background. (The same applies to 1E vs 2E vs 3E, etc, I only use 4E as example because the original question asks about specific consequences of 4E events.)
But then again, you're asking about Limbo, true Chaos, elemental Chaos, a plane (or planes) which could never be fully explored or fully understood anyhow. Inherently unpredictable and unstable (and impossible) by definition. So maybe Limbo was an aberration which could never last eternally anyhow, maybe it changed into something else, maybe Law finally triumphed and the cosmos has begun evolving towards ultimate order (and stagnation), who can say?
I've played all editions, as standalone games in their own standalone settings. They're each quite viable within their own isolated contexts.
But for the most part I reject 4E (and thus 5E), only drawing upon them for selective inspirations which are adapted to pre-4E rules in pre-4E settings. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 10 Apr 2020 00:41:22 |
|
|
|
Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2445 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2020 : 00:51:45
|
As Delnyn mentioned, the Spellplague burned the World Tree, and it seems that scattered/reorganized/destroyed some planes, and "rediscovered" others that were forgotten long ago (the Elemental Chaos, for instance). This reorganisation is what they call the World Axis. At least, that's the theory some sages subscribe to. There is no info on how the World Tree replaced the Great Wheel before that.
Remember, however, that in 5e, there is no true cosmology, just theoretical models some sages believe they are "the true shape of the universe". However, we mortals don't know/cannot understand the true shape of the universe, and none of these are true (or false, for that matter). That is why the Great Wheel of 5e now have "new planes" included, as it was updated to include the new planes "discovered" after the Spellplague.
That's the official (WotC) estance, anyways. According to the 5e DMG, the Great Wheel, the World Tree and the World Axis are just the most popular of such theoretical models across the multiverse, but there many others out there. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 10 Apr 2020 01:22:12 |
|
|
|
Shawn Daniels
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2020 : 03:20:35
|
| Ok, so what I’m getting from you guys is that the wheel did get effed, but is now back somehow. I will hunt down a diagram of the new and improved 5e wheel. Muchas gracias mis amigos. |
Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed. |
|
|
|
Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2445 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2020 : 05:53:36
|
Yeah, you can see it that way. However, just to clarify, the Wheel was not replaced by the Spellplague, but by some earlier event not documented somewhere. It got replaced by the World Tree. The Spellplague burned the World Tree and gave us the World Axis. Post-Second Sundering, all cosmologies coexist.
Anyways, this is the current model (from 5e PHB):
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/a/a2/Planes-5e.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180207035855 |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
|
|
|
LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1486 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2020 : 07:20:03
|
| The Spellplague shouldn't affect the Wheel. The Wheel exists independently of the Prime, and some cataclysm on one Prime has no bearing on the multiverse at large. It's an event unique to Realmspace, not to the planes. |
|
|
|
Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Did the Spellplague Scatter the Great Wheel?
