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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 03:18:16
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Are there any canonical ways to get from one to the other now? Are there portals anywhere? Can I carjack that cute little Nautilus and fly my way on over?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 04:27:48
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Abeir is said to share Toril's orbit in Realmspace but be positioned at the exactly opposite point of that orbit. Also said to be somehow "out of phase" with the rest of Realmspace (and the rest of D&D cosmology). Deliberately isolated (by Ao) in a self-contained dimension, it is after all something of a prison for Primordials who would otherwise destroy the Realms.
Abeir cannot be found in Wildspace, so it's effectively a planet unreachable by spelljammer,
Abeir lacks any entry vectors (pools, curtains, etc) in the ethereal or in the astral, so it's effectively an Alternate Prime unreachable by planeswalking.
Abeir apparently can't even be scried or otherwise revealed by divinations. (Though I'm unsure about the source of this claim.)
I would say Abeir could be reached by spells like Teleport Without Error, Gate, Worldwalk, Wish, etc - and through Sigil (if you could find the portal).
But that's assuming access is not being actively blocked and denied (by Ao). And, as is always the rule with godly/cosmic Powers in D&D, no other beings (not even Ao's "boss" or "peers") would be able to defy Ao's supremacy and Ao's will within Ao's own domain.
So I think it's really less a question about transportation mode, more a question about border enforcement. Does Ao allow Toril and Abeir to interact? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Mar 2020 04:32:19 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 05:07:17
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Great Reader Ayrik,
What is the source of Ao isolating Abeir like that, and why is that happening?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Abeir is said to share Toril's orbit in Realmspace but be positioned at the exactly opposite point of that orbit. Also said to be somehow "out of phase" with the rest of Realmspace (and the rest of D&D cosmology). Deliberately isolated (by Ao) in a self-contained dimension, it is after all something of a prison for Primordials who would otherwise destroy the Realms.
Abeir cannot be found in Wildspace, so it's effectively a planet unreachable by spelljammer,
Abeir lacks any entry vectors (pools, curtains, etc) in the ethereal or in the astral, so it's effectively an Alternate Prime unreachable by planeswalking.
Abeir apparently can't even be scried or otherwise revealed by divinations. (Though I'm unsure about the source of this claim.)
I would say Abeir could be reached by spells like Teleport Without Error, Gate, Worldwalk, Wish, etc - and through Sigil (if you could find the portal).
But that's assuming access is not being actively blocked and denied (by Ao). And, as is always the rule with godly/cosmic Powers in D&D, no other beings (not even Ao's "boss" or "peers") would be able to defy Ao's supremacy and Ao's will within Ao's own domain.
So I think it's really less a question about transportation mode, more a question about border enforcement. Does Ao allow Toril and Abeir to interact?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 11:04:08
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Not yet.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 13:26:07
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| The whole Abeir/Toril split seemed really Eberronish to me. The planes being out of phase and then coming into phase. My two coppers... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 15:29:31
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I've been playing with an alternate spin, of late: the primordials were kicked off Abeir-Toril, but the whole splitting the world and all that never happened. They settled on some other world, somewhere else... But they were pissed, and wanted to go back. So they named their new world Abeir, as a constant reminder of their goal of returning.
Millennia later, they'd devastated parts of Abeir in their wars against each other. They had some choice areas that had been protected/restored, but everything else had been heavily damaged. The remaining primordials got together and did some huge magical ritual, and that ritual was what caused the Spellplague -- destabilizing the Weave was part of it, and helped them transpose their chosen lands with pieces of Toril.
The whole twinning of the world thing, and the coming into phase thing, was all PR spin. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 15:36:04
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In “Eye on the Realms: The Sundering: To Rule Two Worlds” (Dragon 427), Ed mentions some individuals that were securing such gates between Abeir and Toril in 1486 DR, for their own ends. Maybe they succeeded, if you need such a gate.
There is one gate confirmed in canon, as well, in "The Devil You Know" novel. There is a portal in Arush Vayem, a small village in no one maps, in the Tymanther side of the Smoking Mountains. Is keyed to the spellscar of a warlock known as Caisys the Vicelord. The characters of the novel also mention that any surviving Plagueland (there are a few post-Sundering, according to Ed) may still contain portals connecting both worlds, if you survive the trip to such a place. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 04 Mar 2020 15:44:51 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2020 : 19:42:41
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Master Rupert,
I hear ya on the alternate spin. I've ignored the Spellplague, and have just written my own timeline after that that incorporates some things that happened after the Spellplague, but just condensed the 100 year gap by about 90 years. It's made it a lot easier, less crazy, and more consistent.
You'll be happy to know that your favorite Harper, Bran, has moved on in a skulking, angry way in my timeline.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've been playing with an alternate spin, of late: the primordials were kicked off Abeir-Toril, but the whole splitting the world and all that never happened. They settled on some other world, somewhere else... But they were pissed, and wanted to go back. So they named their new world Abeir, as a constant reminder of their goal of returning.
Millennia later, they'd devastated parts of Abeir in their wars against each other. They had some choice areas that had been protected/restored, but everything else had been heavily damaged. The remaining primordials got together and did some huge magical ritual, and that ritual was what caused the Spellplague -- destabilizing the Weave was part of it, and helped them transpose their chosen lands with pieces of Toril.
The whole twinning of the world thing, and the coming into phase thing, was all PR spin.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 00:50:57
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Abeir - along with what it is, why it is, and where it is - is described in 4E Realmslore. It's the "other" side of the whole Spellplague mess.
I imagine that any further details about Abeir would've been published throughout 4E. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 00:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Was it ever actually ever cleared up where exactly "Abeir" was? Cause I know it was never really elaborated on- much to my consternation- back in the day.
It's another planet that exist in Realmspace but out of sync with the rest of it. I have compiled all that I know here:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abeir |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 01:31:29
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| Why go “out of sync” when a demiplane, alternate reality, just Realmspace or even a “pocket dimension” would do just fine? Why something we’ve never heard of before? |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 01:46:26
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| Dunno why. But that's the explanation the designers gave. I have one theory, and it seems is that they wanted Abeir to be some sort of "parallel world" (as mentioned in "Volo's Waterdeep Enchiridion"). But that's just my theory. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 03:41:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Dunno why. But that's the explanation the designers gave. I have one theory, and it seems is that they wanted Abeir to be some sort of "parallel world" (as mentioned in "Volo's Waterdeep Enchiridion"). But that's just my theory.
My Dragonlance lore is weak, but wasn’t there something similar done with Krynn? Didn’t Takhisis hide it away during a Chaos War or something like that? |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 05:11:47
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Master Zeromaru X,
Thanks for putting that together. I am a pre-Spellplague guy so that was quite helpful!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Was it ever actually ever cleared up where exactly "Abeir" was? Cause I know it was never really elaborated on- much to my consternation- back in the day.
It's another planet that exist in Realmspace but out of sync with the rest of it. I have compiled all that I know here:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abeir
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 14:54:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Dunno why. But that's the explanation the designers gave. I have one theory, and it seems is that they wanted Abeir to be some sort of "parallel world" (as mentioned in "Volo's Waterdeep Enchiridion"). But that's just my theory.
My Dragonlance lore is weak, but wasn’t there something similar done with Krynn? Didn’t Takhisis hide it away during a Chaos War or something like that?
Yeah, that happened. Takhisis also brought some alien dragons that came from a dragon-dominated world, who were stronger than the norm and didn't know anything about gods (as Takhisis was a puzzle to them).
It really screams "Abeir" to me. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 05 Mar 2020 15:36:51 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2020 : 01:29:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Dunno why. But that's the explanation the designers gave. I have one theory, and it seems is that they wanted Abeir to be some sort of "parallel world" (as mentioned in "Volo's Waterdeep Enchiridion"). But that's just my theory.
My Dragonlance lore is weak, but wasn’t there something similar done with Krynn? Didn’t Takhisis hide it away during a Chaos War or something like that?
Yeah, that happened. Takhisis also brought some alien dragons that came from a dragon-dominated world, who were stronger than the norm and didn't know anything about gods (as Takhisis was a puzzle to them).
It really screams "Abeir" to me.
I didn't know the part about "didn't know anything about gods". I had proposed in the past that the giant dragons of Krynn might have some kind of ties to Abeir, but this makes it even more of a believable idea. I'd also played with the idea that the process to create draconians had been originated in Abeir long ago and that Takhisis had stolen it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Abeir <=> Toril.
