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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2020 :  22:01:50  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So my group wants to play 5e...so as a good father and DM I'm going to bite the bullet and give it a go.

We will still be playing in the Old Grey Box era for my own sanity.

First thing I've noticed though is that I have to do a lot of conversions for the major NPCs...so I thought I would come here to get any information my fellow scribes may have created.

Essentially, I'm looking for any conversions you may have all made regarding the characters of the OGB made new using the 5e rules.

Thanks for anything you have to offer, including links to other sites I may not have found, your personal conversions and so on.

Many thanks!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  19:03:30  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd suggest not converting NPCs. Unless you honestly think they're going to fight them, otherwise keep the original version for a point of reference and RP the rest.

You can check the back of the monster manual for NPC and humanoid enemies that can fit your campaign and they're fairly balanced.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

690 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  20:36:52  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a 46 year old man, I played the 1ED Advanced D&D hardcover, while I'm forever a 3.5 fanboy, I do miss the Advanced 1ED system, not to mention, I miss the old broken ThAc0 2ED system.

As complicated as 3.5 ED is with skills and skill tricks, feats and feat tricks, math and numbers, I find it more accurate in gaming math than past or present editions.

I'd love to help you. Sounds fun. I'm clueless to 4 and 5 ed.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  20:48:52  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Honestly, there's not that much difference from older versions to 5e. For example, most of the stats are the same - unlike 4e and 3e where the scores were often above 20 at higher levels. And since monsters don't use "feats" you don't have to worry about those either.

Spells are different but I've found enough closeness that there's not much issues. If you're insisting on conversions, let's start small and figure out the ones the characters might likely meet. Which ones instantly spring to mind that will most commonly encounter?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

690 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  22:04:54  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've always found that math cures all editions. Dungeons and Dragons is all about math at its core gaming. If you suck at math, then have handy your +5 Calculator of true seeing, and work it out. Vamp it, tweek it, sheist it.

CEV
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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2946 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  23:37:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd think more about what things exist in 5e that don't in the 1e FR, and how you're going to make them fit. To take some stuff from just the PHB, how will warlocks, dragonborn, and tieflings fit into the setting for you?
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  07:00:13  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

I'd think more about what things exist in 5e that don't in the 1e FR, and how you're going to make them fit. To take some stuff from just the PHB, how will warlocks, dragonborn, and tieflings fit into the setting for you?



I don’t intend to even have Dragonborn and such in the game.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6969 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  07:28:12  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So what is the appeal of playing 5E instead of 1E if restricting it to emulation of 1E setting, race, class, etc?

Does 5E ruleset improve or streamline anything which bogged or broke the game in 1E ruleset?

[/Ayrik]
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  14:49:07  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The primary reason is that the group is wanting the newer game but likes their old characters. Also, 5e is what they are reading about online and so they want to play “the game of our generation” or something close to that statement.

Talk about making a fella feel old...

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  14:52:33  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I'd suggest not converting NPCs. Unless you honestly think they're going to fight them, otherwise keep the original version for a point of reference and RP the rest.

You can check the back of the monster manual for NPC and humanoid enemies that can fit your campaign and they're fairly balanced.



I think you are right about this.

It will probably work best for me to NOT do my usual massive amount of behind the scenes work since they probably won’t even encounter most of the work I was thinking about.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  15:59:15  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I was looking through some of the OGB info and, really there's not much to go on in terms of stats, unless I missed something.

For example in the Beregost blip they mention Thuderhammer Fuirium, who has 25 HP and fights as a 1st level Fighter. So for 5e, I'd give him 3d8+6 plus 1d10+2 Hit Die (25 HP) and he attacks once with a +3 to-hit (warhammer, 1d8+1 or 1d10+1 two-handed). To round him out, give him stats (Str 12, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 12); saves Str +3, Con +4.

Done.

For someone a little higher in level, say the Wizard in Beregost named Thalantyr (15th level magic-user) you can use the Archmage entry from the monster manual and maybe give him some of the conjuration benefits of the Wizard and have the spells be conjuration and summoning.

If you do have some guys you want specifically made up in 5e I'd be more than happy to stat them up for ya. This is just a quick reference and re-skin to help on the fly

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32857 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  19:10:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Well I was looking through some of the OGB info and, really there's not much to go on in terms of stats, unless I missed something.



Ye gods, I miss those minimal statblocks.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  20:13:25  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Well I was looking through some of the OGB info and, really there's not much to go on in terms of stats, unless I missed something.



Ye gods, I miss those minimal statblocks.



lol, initially I was going to disagree but....after 3e/3.5/PF's pages for 1 NPC...yea I'm none too big a fan of them anymore. Honestly, 4E and 5E are much better in terms of codifying and simplifying the need-to-know basics than 3e. As for 1e/2e stats, it assumes you can reference stuff on your own, so when the book says 4th level Fighter the onus is on you to decide what the to-hit, damage, AC, saves, etc is for that particular guy (simple, yes; easy to reference...no).


What I found in a 3PP adventure is more simple stat-blocks that doesn't take up a lot of page counts. So lets take Alok Silverspear (DM's sourcebook, OGB, pg. 17). She's a 5th level female elven fighter. No stats are given so we have to make them up, all that's known is she wields some impressive weapons and armor. So, what I do is the usual point-buy method for characters (27 pts in 5e) and then assign them accordingly. It doesn't say if she's a moon, sun, wood, or wild elf....just elf. So I'm going to assume wood elf (cuz, why not?) and that gives her +2 Dex, +1 Wis. So with my new stat-block method and conversions being what they are, we got this...

Alok Silverspear (Chaotic Good wood elf Fighter 5) HP 39 (HD 5d10+5), AC 18 (+2 elven chain), Spd 35ft. Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 10. Perception 14 (+4). Athletics +5, Survival +4. Sv: Str +5, Con +4. +3 silver spear +8 to-hit (1d6+5 or 1d8+5 two-handed) or greatsword +5 to-hit (2d6+2). Multiattack (two spear or greatsword attacks), second wind 1/rest (regain 1d10+5 HP) action-surge 1/rest (take an additional action), improved critical, mask of the wild (can attempt to hide when lightly obscured by natural phenomena). Alok wears +2 elven chain into battle and wields a +3 silvered spear along with a two-handed sword.

ta-da!

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 27 Jan 2020 21:20:39
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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2946 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  21:01:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why is she wearing +2 chain in her stats and then apparently wears +3 chain into battle?
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BrennonGoldeye
Seeker

73 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  21:15:34  Show Profile Send BrennonGoldeye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Honestly, there's not that much difference from older versions to 5e. For example, most of the stats are the same - unlike 4e and 3e where the scores were often above 20 at higher levels. And since monsters don't use "feats" you don't have to worry about those either.

Spells are different but I've found enough closeness that there's not much issues. If you're insisting on conversions, let's start small and figure out the ones the characters might likely meet. Which ones instantly spring to mind that will most commonly encounter?



Umm, you just ripped the heart out of 3.5 and said it wasn't that different. Yeah, its very different, its made for grown folk. 4E was for $ and Magic the Gathering kids, 5E is just... ugg..everything to its lowest common denominator. Please, don't deign to sully 3 and 3.5 by mentioning either younger edition in the same sentence.

Sam
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BrennonGoldeye
Seeker

73 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  21:21:26  Show Profile Send BrennonGoldeye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Honestly, there's not that much difference from older versions to 5e. For example, most of the stats are the same - unlike 4e and 3e where the scores were often above 20 at higher levels. And since monsters don't use "feats" you don't have to worry about those either.

Spells are different but I've found enough closeness that there's not much issues. If you're insisting on conversions, let's start small and figure out the ones the characters might likely meet. Which ones instantly spring to mind that will most commonly encounter?



Umm, you just ripped the heart out of 3.5 and said it wasn't that different. Yeah, its very different, its made for grown folk. 4E was for $ and Magic the Gathering kids, 5E is just... ugg..everything to its lowest common denominator. Anyone casting cantrips, concentration needed for ALL spells, monsters to stupid to use a feat... Please, don't deign to sully 3 and 3.5 by mentioning either younger edition in the same sentence. (This was all typed with a fun tone and a smile)

Sam
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  21:23:52  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

Why is she wearing +2 chain in her stats and then apparently wears +3 chain into battle?



Typo, should be elven chain +2. Chain shirt in 5e is 13 + Dex (max +2) so 13 + 2 Dex +2 enchanted + 1 defensive style = 18

My bad

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  21:32:41  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BrennonGoldeye

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Honestly, there's not that much difference from older versions to 5e. For example, most of the stats are the same - unlike 4e and 3e where the scores were often above 20 at higher levels. And since monsters don't use "feats" you don't have to worry about those either.

Spells are different but I've found enough closeness that there's not much issues. If you're insisting on conversions, let's start small and figure out the ones the characters might likely meet. Which ones instantly spring to mind that will most commonly encounter?



Umm, you just ripped the heart out of 3.5 and said it wasn't that different. Yeah, its very different, its made for grown folk. 4E was for $ and Magic the Gathering kids, 5E is just... ugg..everything to its lowest common denominator. Anyone casting cantrips, concentration needed for ALL spells, monsters to stupid to use a feat... Please, don't deign to sully 3 and 3.5 by mentioning either younger edition in the same sentence. (This was all typed with a fun tone and a smile)



The OP expressed desire for a 5e conversion of OGB NPCs and as someone who has played - extensively - multiple editions I've found a lot more in common with old school D&D style with 5e-isms.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 27 Jan 2020 21:45:22
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3935 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  22:44:50  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I played 3.x for a very long time and can say with certainty it is more than passingly difficult to create NPCs...having said that, it did allow for a great diversity and player surprise because the players had no way of knowing what the "bones" of an NPC were.

I appreciate Diffan helping out with a solid example in Alok...especially since she is one of my favorite NPCs. I think I'll have to use her because the party looks like they will be starting in Sembia and having eyes toward the treeline.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  23:05:04  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I played 3.x for a very long time and can say with certainty it is more than passingly difficult to create NPCs...having said that, it did allow for a great diversity and player surprise because the players had no way of knowing what the "bones" of an NPC were.


My biggest issue concerning 3e NPCs (or adversaries using 3e stats) was that they were all forced into the same design umbrella, which instantly pit class vs. class. Not to mention that the wildly unbalanced nature of 3e in terms of Challenge Rating. Sorry but a 5th level Fighter is no way a CR 5 challenge against four PCs. It's laughable and silly.

One of the things I liked about 4e was that there was distinction in adversary roles. A level 5 Soldier in 4e absolutely was a challenge against five PCs due to AC, hit points and attack modifiers. Then they had special aspects that could attack multiple foes or heal an ally. You can't get that level of diversity in 5 levels with 3e AND still be a credible threat. Just too many restrictions that I'm glad they moved away from in later iterations

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I appreciate Diffan helping out with a solid example in Alok...especially since she is one of my favorite NPCs. I think I'll have to use her because the party looks like they will be starting in Sembia and having eyes toward the treeline.



You're welcome. Honestly I picked her out randomly as she was close to the beginning and low level enough as to make the conversion fast. Still, a +3 spear is legendary in 5e and Elven chain mail is a rare item so she sure is packing some major items for a level 5 character

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 27 Jan 2020 23:08:00
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32857 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2020 :  02:49:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

lol, initially I was going to disagree but....after 3e/3.5/PF's pages for 1 NPC...yea I'm none too big a fan of them anymore. Honestly, 4E and 5E are much better in terms of codifying and simplifying the need-to-know basics than 3e. As for 1e/2e stats, it assumes you can reference stuff on your own, so when the book says 4th level Fighter the onus is on you to decide what the to-hit, damage, AC, saves, etc is for that particular guy (simple, yes; easy to reference...no).


I think the objective for the minimal statblocks was DM freedom. Leaving most of it up to the DM meant that the DM could take a canon NPC, and make that NPC into whoever the DM needed, instead of having to look for one that fit the mold.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2020 :  07:18:32  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

lol, initially I was going to disagree but....after 3e/3.5/PF's pages for 1 NPC...yea I'm none too big a fan of them anymore. Honestly, 4E and 5E are much better in terms of codifying and simplifying the need-to-know basics than 3e. As for 1e/2e stats, it assumes you can reference stuff on your own, so when the book says 4th level Fighter the onus is on you to decide what the to-hit, damage, AC, saves, etc is for that particular guy (simple, yes; easy to reference...no).


I think the objective for the minimal statblocks was DM freedom. Leaving most of it up to the DM meant that the DM could take a canon NPC, and make that NPC into whoever the DM needed, instead of having to look for one that fit the mold.




That's certainly true. I'd much prefer something like Sir Duran Galdir (male Chondathan human LG Knight 4/ ranger 3; Str 19, Cha 17). Sir Duran travels the Western Heartlands helping the less fortunate and the downtrodden, fighting the ruthless humanoids who ransack the countryside. He wields the powerful Sunblade and wolfang, +1 lycanthrope bane sword for when he meets worshippers of Malar in the wilderness.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5706 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2020 :  12:19:49  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

lol, initially I was going to disagree but....after 3e/3.5/PF's pages for 1 NPC...yea I'm none too big a fan of them anymore. Honestly, 4E and 5E are much better in terms of codifying and simplifying the need-to-know basics than 3e. As for 1e/2e stats, it assumes you can reference stuff on your own, so when the book says 4th level Fighter the onus is on you to decide what the to-hit, damage, AC, saves, etc is for that particular guy (simple, yes; easy to reference...no).


I think the objective for the minimal statblocks was DM freedom. Leaving most of it up to the DM meant that the DM could take a canon NPC, and make that NPC into whoever the DM needed, instead of having to look for one that fit the mold.




Ed created the "simple line" statblock which featured in the Ol' Grey Box and the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover simply to save wordcount for Realmslore.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
457 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2020 :  13:39:55  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

lol, initially I was going to disagree but....after 3e/3.5/PF's pages for 1 NPC...yea I'm none too big a fan of them anymore. Honestly, 4E and 5E are much better in terms of codifying and simplifying the need-to-know basics than 3e. As for 1e/2e stats, it assumes you can reference stuff on your own, so when the book says 4th level Fighter the onus is on you to decide what the to-hit, damage, AC, saves, etc is for that particular guy (simple, yes; easy to reference...no).


I think the objective for the minimal statblocks was DM freedom. Leaving most of it up to the DM meant that the DM could take a canon NPC, and make that NPC into whoever the DM needed, instead of having to look for one that fit the mold.




Ed created the "simple line" statblock which featured in the Ol' Grey Box and the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover simply to save wordcount for Realmslore.

-- George Krashos



Also the surprisingly banal origin behind the term "Hin" when taking about the Halfling race. It was just to help with the printing, nothing more.
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