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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 23:00:01
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So your a trickster deity of a huge elven pantheon. A mediocre god not really looking for betterment. A god of Rogues, Change, Mischief and trickery. Your followers are seeking self-satisfaction, as opposed to heroic accomplishments. A perfect elven deity as far as wants are concerned. But who is Erevan Ilesere?
Cannon says he is a middle god that cares only for adventure and wine and wenching. He cares only for trickery, pranks and debauchery.
But is that all he is good for?
From what I've read...from Cannon... I understand that Erevan is a god of trickery and chaos and change. A deity of Rogues, thievery, and mischief.
Who is to say he couldn't steal a portfolio of any other god he sets his mind to? The Portfolio of Shadow? The Portfolio of Illusion?
Erevan Ilesere is the deity of thieves among the elves.... So who's to say he couldn't have stolen the domain of Shadow or darkness from under the noses of the major gods and goddesses.
LOB and Sleyvas both concur that it could never happen. I say it's 100% possible.
Erevan Ilesere... The elven deity of Mischief, change, rogues, trickery, debauchery, and chaos is a front runner for all thefts of divine domains.
Who's to say that Erevan couldn't steal any domain that he wanted?
I never understood why some folks on Candlekeep can't accept this.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 23:28:48
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Maybe Erevan stole the domain of Shadow from Mask, or Darkness from Shar?
Considering in cannon he has been around since before most other deities in Faerun. I see no reason why he couldn't steal a divine domain or portfolio. What's that goddess that fell during the times of troubles? The goddess of Illusions? Maybe he pretended to be the god that stole that identity, but was really just Erevan. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:04:46
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| Stealing a portfolio isn’t like picking pockets I don’t think. lol |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:13:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Stealing a portfolio isn’t like picking pockets I don’t think. lol
But it should be. Deities do such the same as mortals. Hence, mortals play the same games on a lesser level.
What else does a god of rogues do? Sit around and watch their followers do crap? No... I imagine they do epic, mythic misadventures that create stories and fables to inspire their mortal followers.
So yes... Stealing a portfolio of another deity is totally feasible. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:28:58
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So he could suddenly become the God of War?
I think you are reading too much into it.
Could he steal Tempus’ axe? Sure. But all the warriors who venerate Tempus aren’t suddenly going to worship an elf god...you can’t steal something intangible like a portfolio. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 03:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So he could suddenly become the God of War?
I think you are reading too much into it.
Could he steal Tempus’ axe? Sure. But all the warriors who venerate Tempus aren’t suddenly going to worship an elf god...you can’t steal something intangible like a portfolio.
Goodness, you misunderstand. Erevan would never steal the Axe of Tempus to become anything but "The elven god that stole this or that." Erevan would never ever ever want to have anything to do with war and war-like followers. Erevan Ilesere would steal the axe of Tempus just to say he stole it. Cause a crap-ton of chaos and hand it back saying I did it. Understand? It amazes me how little D&D players understand such an old elven god. Erevan Ilesere would steal the Axe of Tempus... Kill the Kobold deity and then stealthy give the axe back and blame the death on Tempus, causing chaos and disruption. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 03:20:59
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| However you wish. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 03:52:18
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Cyric stole followers and portfolios, he used outright theft and deception. Most gods and goddesses were enraged in their own ways - Ao evidently didn't care. Midnight/Mystra had deeply a personal vendetta vs Cyric and exceeded the bounds of her divine station while passionately campaigning against him - supposed to be the Goddess of Magic, not Vengeance, and her indignant activities were neglecting (even abusing) her own portfolios - Ao didn't much like that at all, the other Great Powers dismissed Mystra's behaviour as that of a childish mortal, even Tyr openly accused her of being a dangerous fanatic, lol.
So it seems that stealing portfolios, powers, temples, and followers has precedent (at least in human religion). Deities just frown on such stuff, they'd much prefer to take portfolios from each other the proper ways (holy wars, crusades, miracles and prophets and armies, manly paladin vs paladin entertainments to keep them amused, as if they're watching a sporting event or taking turns in a chess game). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 05:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Cyric stole followers and portfolios, he used outright theft and deception. Most gods and goddesses were enraged in their own ways - Ao evidently didn't care. Midnight/Mystra had deeply a personal vendetta vs Cyric and exceeded the bounds of her divine station while passionately campaigning against him - supposed to be the Goddess of Magic, not Vengeance, and her indignant activities were neglecting (even abusing) her own portfolios - Ao didn't much like that at all, the other Great Powers dismissed Mystra's behaviour as that of a childish mortal, even Tyr openly accused her of being a dangerous fanatic, lol.
Hence Erevan Ilesere stealing the portfolios of Shadow, which goes well with his actual given ones of Rogue, Change and Trickery, Mischief and thievery. If I was a D&D designer, I would push for Erevan to steal EVERYTHING!! Not that he would... but that he would attempt to. Trying to steal and succeeding is one thing.... trying to and failing is a great misadventure,
So it seems that stealing portfolios, powers, temples, and followers has precedent (at least in human religion). Deities just frown on such stuff, they'd much prefer to take portfolios from each other the proper ways (holy wars, crusades, miracles and prophets and armies, manly paladin vs paladin entertainments to keep them amused, as if they're watching a sporting event or taking turns in a chess game).
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 05:57:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Cyric stole followers and portfolios, he used outright theft and deception. Most gods and goddesses were enraged in their own ways - Ao evidently didn't care. Midnight/Mystra had deeply a personal vendetta vs Cyric and exceeded the bounds of her divine station while passionately campaigning against him - supposed to be the Goddess of Magic, not Vengeance, and her indignant activities were neglecting (even abusing) her own portfolios - Ao didn't much like that at all, the other Great Powers dismissed Mystra's behaviour as that of a childish mortal, even Tyr openly accused her of being a dangerous fanatic, lol.
So it seems that stealing portfolios, powers, temples, and followers has precedent (at least in human religion). Deities just frown on such stuff, they'd much prefer to take portfolios from each other the proper ways (holy wars, crusades, miracles and prophets and armies, manly paladin vs paladin entertainments to keep them amused, as if they're watching a sporting event or taking turns in a chess game).
So that's my point... Erevan, as the elven god of thieves and rogues and trickery could attempt to steal the portfolio of Shadow from Mask or any other deity who claims such, and make it his own, or attempt to steal it and fail creating a wonderful misadventure among the gods.
As a deity of Mischief, he could succeed or fail. I really don't think Erevan Illesere would care, as the misadventure is what he is after. But if he did succeed in stealing the Shadow portfolio, I can only imagine what chaos he would invite into the multi-verse.
Erevan Ilesere already has the domains of Chaos, Trickery, Luck, and Elf. Imagine if he stole "Shadow" from Mask or "Darkness" from Shar. I don't think he as a deity would do much with it... it's his followers that would make something of it. Again... Erevan is a Trickster deity of a flighty race. He as a god would most likely use the Shadow domain and portfolio as a secondary escape route for his adventures in the Multi-verse.
Thank you. Cyric doing his thing and breaking all the rules makes Erevan doing his thing seem more able, and feasible. More than likely, Erevan would steal the portfolio of Shadow and then lose it in a game of dice, wenching goddesses and causing chaos in the multi-verse.
Chaos, Trickery, Luck and thievery seem to be his exemplar traits as a elven god. Shadow would just be a great misadventure for him. Something to laugh about and have mortals tell stories about.
Thank you Ayrik!! |
Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 30 Dec 2019 14:39:47 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1486 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 00:04:21
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Who did Cyric steal from? He murdered Leira, and wrenched away Mask's dominion over intrigue after Mask went nuts after reading the Cyrinishad, and those were all conflicts within the pantheon itself. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of Corellon trying to muscle in on Mystra's domain.
Why doesn't Erevan try to gain the shadow portfolio from within the elven pantheon? I mean, what's stopping the Faerunian pantheon, or any other pantheon, from doing the same thing to the elves? It would be such a shame if, say Alathrien Druanna were to suddenly disappear while Velsharoon gains new portfolios, and of course it couldn't have been Mask who helped Velsharoon sneak into her domain and murder her while nobody's the wiser, not since Erevan stole his portfolio...
Basically, if Erevan somehow manages to steal a portfolio for whatever reason, have the Seldarine busy trying to put out the fires he caused. Having a divine spark stolen tends to make deities rather antsy, just ask poor Mellifleur. Erevan stealing Shar's dominion over darkness should have Shar fixated on utterly ruining Erevan in Faerun, and Shar has a lot more epic level spellcasters in her service than Erevan does. The Seldarine might not be inclined to intervene as long as Shar avoids the rest of them, but targeted assassinations of Erevanite clerics, the depopulation of entire fey groves where Erevanites frequent, subtle propaganda against the church of Erevan, etc. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 00:39:24
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| By that logic, Mask and Vhaeraun could do the same, since they're gods of thieves/thievery as well. That would make the gods of thievery potentially gods of everything, which I don't think would make a lot of sense, because portfolios have never been stolen like that. I think that a skill that makes a thievery god able to copy ome other god's abilities, but only to a degree of their original efficiency, could be more fitting. It also wouldn't break anything, while still being immensely powerful. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 01:38:19
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I mean, it’s not at all a bad idea as a campaign event personal to your game so like anything - make it happen if you want to. Personally, if I had something like this happen, Erevan would take something different from a lesser god. Kind of like how Sevetarm took some power from Zanassu and was subsequently corrupted by it. Power always comes with a price among the gods.
So have him take something non-trickstery from a non-trickstery god or you won’t notice the difference. Perhaps steal from one of the 11 gods of the tlincalli or an elemental or slaad lord. Make it fun. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 20:12:30
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Who did Cyric steal from? He murdered Leira, and wrenched away Mask's dominion over intrigue after Mask went nuts after reading the Cyrinishad, and those were all conflicts within the pantheon itself. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of Corellon trying to muscle in on Mystra's domain.
Why doesn't Erevan try to gain the shadow portfolio from within the elven pantheon? I mean, what's stopping the Faerunian pantheon, or any other pantheon, from doing the same thing to the elves? It would be such a shame if, say Alathrien Druanna were to suddenly disappear while Velsharoon gains new portfolios, and of course it couldn't have been Mask who helped Velsharoon sneak into her domain and murder her while nobody's the wiser, not since Erevan stole his portfolio...
Basically, if Erevan somehow manages to steal a portfolio for whatever reason, have the Seldarine busy trying to put out the fires he caused. Having a divine spark stolen tends to make deities rather antsy, just ask poor Mellifleur. Erevan stealing Shar's dominion over darkness should have Shar fixated on utterly ruining Erevan in Faerun, and Shar has a lot more epic level spellcasters in her service than Erevan does. The Seldarine might not be inclined to intervene as long as Shar avoids the rest of them, but targeted assassinations of Erevanite clerics, the depopulation of entire fey groves where Erevanites frequent, subtle propaganda against the church of Erevan, etc.
Wonderful, I really like this idea. Truly I do. But what do you mean by "Have Erevan try stealing a shadow portfolio from within the Seldarine?" There is no elven deity that currently has a shadow portfolio if I'm not mistaken. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 20:16:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I mean, it’s not at all a bad idea as a campaign event personal to your game so like anything - make it happen if you want to. Personally, if I had something like this happen, Erevan would take something different from a lesser god. Kind of like how Sevetarm took some power from Zanassu and was subsequently corrupted by it. Power always comes with a price among the gods.
So have him take something non-trickstery from a non-trickstery god or you won’t notice the difference. Perhaps steal from one of the 11 gods of the tlincalli or an elemental or slaad lord. Make it fun.
Again, wonderful idea. Thank you. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 20:29:56
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I created a PrC for divine casters of Erevan Ilesere a few years back called The Shadow-Trick Priest. A specialty cleric of Erevan that allowed the cleric to choose specific shadow-based spells from an Arcane spell list to challenge and combat the Shadovar and any other beastie from the Plane of Shadow, or to be on equal footing with Shadow Adepts across Faerun.
Now without a Shadow portfolio, I had a hard time coming to terms on how Erevan could grant shadow-spells whether it be divine or arcane to his clerics or favored souls. My current gaming table all said it made sense and so I finalized the PrC and let it be an option for game play.
I will post the PrC here on this thread and maybe one of you can help me come to a understanding outside my Campaign as to how Erevan could grant this.
Shadowtrick Priest (specialty cleric of Erevan Ilesere)
Some Elven folk have always feared the starless night, barring themselves behind doors or comforting themselves with bonfires when the shadows grow long, rightfully wary of the creatures that prowl the darkness. Yet long ago, some Clerics of Erevan Ilesere learned that the best way to conquer an enemy in the shadows is to embrace it. These were the first Shadowtrick priests. As a specialty Cleric of Erevan Ilesere, you gain the innate ability to feel the divine connection of Trickery and Shadows. She uses the weave of Faerun to access the Plane of Shadow directly. She is intimately familiar with the shadows around her and her divine connection to Erevan Ilesere. Her innate ability with shadows and Trickery combine to grant her these special abilities. Shadowtrick priests exist in the boundary between light and darkness, where they weave together the shadows to become half-seen artists of deception. Your Trickery and Shadows are unequal as a Shadowtrick priest of Erevan Ilesere.
Hit Die: d8.
Requirements: To qualify to become a Shadowtrick priest, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Character must be a Elf or Half Elf.
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Disguise 5 ranks, Disable device 6 ranks, Bluff 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Move silently 6 ranks, sleight of hand 5 ranks, Concentration 2 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks, Escape Artist 2 ranks.
Feats: Any Metamagic feat, Sacred Outlaw.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3'rd level Divine spells. Must have the Trickery domain or the Shadow domain.
Special: +2d6 Sneak attack ability. Must have Erevan Ilesere as a Patron Deity.
Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Open lock, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot.
Skill points at each level- 6 + Int mod.
Class Features:
Weapon & Armor Proficiency: Shadowtrick priests are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. ST's are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Spells per day: A shadowtrick priests training focuses on divine magic. Thus, when a character gains a new level of STP, she gains new spells per day as if she also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not however gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.
Expanded Spell List: Starting at first level and every level thereafter your deity grants you additional spells of trickery and shadows. Add the following spells to the spell list of one divine spellcasting class you posses levels in.
1: charm person, fengut, net of shadows
2: blur, invisibility, phantasmal assailant
3: displacement, abolish shadows, rend shadow weave
4: greater invisibility, phantasmal killer, shadow conjuration
5: false vision, seeming, shadow evocation
6: mislead, veil, shadow walk
7: mass invisibility, greater shadow conjuration, project alternate image
8: screen, scintillating pattern, greater shadow evocation
9: shades, stalking spell, weird
Consecrated Deceiver: At 1'st level the STP gains the ability to add her shadowtrick priest class levels to stack with her Sacred Outlaw feat. For example, a 5'th level cleric/ 3'rd level rogue/ 3'rd level shadowtrick priest Turns undead as a 11'th level cleric, and deals +6d6 points of damage on a successful sneak attack. Furthermore, if she also has the Divine Scoundrel class ability from the Mischiefmaker prestige class, then this ability also stacks with both of those.
Extra Granted Domain: At 1'st level, the STP gains access to one domain chosen from among those her deity offers, and with it the granted power of that domain. STP's who were once clerics essentially gain an extra domain this way and can prepare their domain spells at each level from the new domain’s list if they wish.
Surprise Shadowcasting:(Ex) At 2'nd level, whenever you catch an opponent flat-footed or denied their Dexterity bonus to AC (not simply flanked) and you cast a spell from the Expanded Spell list, the spell receives a +1 divine bonus to the DC for catching them off-guard. This bonus increases by 1 every three levels beyond 2'nd. (5th, 8th, etc).
Shadowself:(Sp) A 3'rd level shadowtrick priest can speak an incantation and nearby shadows gather together, assuming your approximate size and shape. You create a shadowy duplicate of yourself at a place you indicate within 50'. The shadow double attacks any adjacent target (regardless of the weapon it appears to wield), as you desire, starting in the round when you cast the spell. It attacks on your turn once each round, striking with an attack bonus equal to your base attack bonus + your Wis modifier. Each hit deals 1 point of Strength damage to the target. The first time a target is hit, it can attempt a Will save to disbelieve the effect; this negates the damage and renders it immune to further attacks by the shadow double. The shadow double occupies a space identical to yours. It is not incorporeal, and thus can't share a space with another creature or object. It can provide a flanking bonus against any creature that hasn't yet saved successfully against it. The shadow double can strike incorporeal creatures, but not ethereal creatures. Each round after the first, you can use a swift action to direct the shadow double to attack any other target. To attack this new target, the shadow double can move to any new legal space within 30 feet (it moves by instantaneous teleportation). If it is not commanded to switch targets, it continues to attack the same target. A shadow double can be attacked. It has an Armor Class equal to 10 + your size modifier + a deflection bonus equal to your Wis modifier, and has one-fifth of your full normal hit points. If the shadow double is reduced to 0 hit points, or if you create a second shadow double when the first still exists, the shadow double dissolves into mist. The Shadowself lasts 1 round/ STP level and can be used a number of times a day equal to your Wis modifier.
Conceal Shadowtricks:(Ex) At 4'th level you can cast a spell from the Expanded Spell List without revealing that you are doing so. Make a Sleight of Hand check as part of the action used to cast the spell, opposed by the Spot checks of onlookers. If you are successful, an observer can't tell that you're casting a spell. That observer cannot make an attack of opportunity against you for casting, nor can it attempt to counter your spell. Furthermore, if you successfully cast a concealed spell from the Expanded list you can immediately cast another spell as a free action or perform another standard action of your choice.
Mantle of Shadows:(Su) At 5'th level the shadowtrick priest is able to create a pitch black mantle of swirling shadows to form around her head and shoulders like a cloak as a free action. It cannot be physically removed, completely hides your features, and continuously grants Nondetection as the spell, plus the shadowtrick priest gains a superior form of darkvision with a 60-foot range. She can see through any form of normal or magical darkness without hindrance. In addition, she may cast Shadowspray and Friend to Foe while wearing the Mantle of Shadows one time a day each.
Afraid of the Shadows:(Sp) At 6'th level the STP may draw forth a twisted reflection of your foe from the Plane of Shadow. The image unerringly touches the subject, causing Wisdom damage equal to 1d6 points +1 point per four caster levels (maximum +5). A Will saving throw halves the Wisdom damage. This ability takes one standard action.
Shadow Shield:(Sp) At 7'th level a STP can surround himself with a globe of blue-black force as a swift action. This shield of shadows functions like a shield spell, granting him a +4 shield bonus to AC and absorbing magic missiles cast at him. In addition, the shield also grants him spell resistance equal to 12 + his STP level, as if he were under the effect of a spell resistance spell. The STP may use a shadow shield for up to 2 rounds per caster level per day. This duration need not be consecutive and the STP may break it up into increments as small as 1 round if he so desires. Creating or dismissing the shadow shield is a swift action.
Bewildering Shadows:(Sp) At 8'th level You channel the mockery of your trickster deity to sow dissension among your opponents.
By using this ability, you cause the subject to believe that two allies and two enemies have traded places.
The allies physically closest to the subject now seems to have the appearance, voice, clothing, and gear of its nearest enemies, and that the enemy looks and sounds exactly like the subject's nearest ally. Unless the subject makes a successful Will save, it immediately attacks the false enemy, which is considered flat-footed for that round only.
Both the ally and the enemy must be within the effects range of 50 feet, and the effect ends immediately if either moves out of its range from you. Bewildering shadows affects only the subject, and takes a standard action to cast. This spell like ability is cast at full character caster level and lasts 1 round/STP level. A will save negates the effects. This spell-like ability can be used a number of times a day equal to your WIS modifier.
Master of Shadow deception:(Ex) A 9'th level STP gains the ability to cast any spell from the Expanded Spell List as a free action after successfully dealing sneak attack damage. Additionally if she casts any spells from the Expanded Spell List with their normal casting time, they are automatically extended, as per the Extend spell feat.
Powerful Shadow Tricks:(Su) When a shadowtrick priest reaches 10'th level, the strength of the effects created by her shadow conjuration, shadow evocation, greater shadow conjuration, greater shadow evocation, and shades spells increases by 20%. That is, these spells are an additional 20% likely to affect disbelieving creatures and deal 20% more damage. As no shadow illusion is 100% real the percentage is capped at 99%.
(All spell-like abilities are cast at total character caster level)
Hit Die: d8
Level Attack Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting
1st 0 0 2 2 Expanded spell list, Consecrated Deceiver, Granted Domain +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
2nd 1 0 3 3 Surprise Shadowcasting +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
3rd 2 1 3 3 Deceptive Weapon +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
4th 3 1 4 4 Conceal Shadowtricks +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
5th 3 1 4 4 Mantle of Shadows +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
6th 4 2 5 5 Afraid of the Shadows +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
7th 5 2 5 5 Shadow Shield +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
8th 6 2 6 6 Bewildering Shadows +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
9th 6 3 6 6 Master of Shadow Deception +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
10th 7 3 7 7 Powerful shadow Tricks +20% +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2020 : 15:29:12
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Like said above stealing a portfolio isn't really an act of thievery.
It's either an act of extreme violence (like in Cyric's case) or an open long term act where deity A tries to convince more and more mortals that he actually already has that portfolio rather than deity B. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2020 : 05:28:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
Like said above stealing a portfolio isn't really an act of thievery.
It's either an act of extreme violence (like in Cyric's case) or an open long term act where deity A tries to convince more and more mortals that he actually already has that portfolio rather than deity B.
Or both!! |
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The Unusual point of being Erevan Ilesere
