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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 01:16:42
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If I were to propose a cult, faction or regional variation of the worship of important Faerunian goddesses, in the form of a multi-aspected lunar deity, which goddesses should be included?
My first thought is a triune goddess, with a maiden, mother and crone motif. Our Lady of Silver (Selune) as the eldest, the Lady of Mysteries (Mystra) as the Mother of All Magic and Lady Luck (Tymora) as the young maiden.
I confess, however, that Tymora is just there because I see the worshippers as adventurous and the sort to throw caution to the wind, relying on fortune's favor. From a mythological point of view, Lurue, as Selune's daughter, makes the most sense, with any number of other goddesses fitting at least as well as Tymora; e.g. Lliira, Mielikki, Sune, Tyche, etc.
One option would be to frame this as a mystery cult of The Lady and the Unicorn, with a triune lunar Goddess representing feminity, magic, mysteries and fortune, with the unicorn as the symbol of the faith and the aspect of Lurue, the Unicorn Queen of Talking Beasts.
Or to have more than three aspects? Five? Seven?
What goddesses would scribes include?
What kind of alternate mythology should the cultists believe?
Myths about creation, the origin of the Lady and/or her aspects, the relationship between them and the origin of species?
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 01:39:16
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I think three parts are fun and it's a good way to play it up.
I'm going to throw a greek cult your way to reforge with that aspect you already laid down to redefine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Dionysus
They used to get drunk and kill a goat with their teeth and that sounds like a lycanthrope to me. :D
are they the Heros? Villains? friendly faction? Speed bump to the PCs? |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 02:48:56
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
I think three parts are fun and it's a good way to play it up.
I'm going to throw a greek cult your way to reforge with that aspect you already laid down to redefine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Dionysus
They used to get drunk and kill a goat with their teeth and that sounds like a lycanthrope to me. :D
are they the Heros? Villains? friendly faction? Speed bump to the PCs?
The cultists will include some werebeasts seeking to control their natures and work toward the goals of Selune and other included goddesses.
Potentially allies, especially if a new PC in the planning phases belongs to it. The player hasn't decided on a character, but prophetic gifts, luck-based powers and lycanthropy are all possibilities. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 13:21:22
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I have always been for simple solution. From what you wrote it seems to me you are looking for a cult of Selune alone. She is represented already as maiden, mother and crone (see FaP p.57 image/avatar forms), she has portfolio of femininity, magic, mysteries and fortune (protection), she is a patron of lycathropes and helps them control their nature.
Instead I would focus on differentiating the cult from main tradition in their believe, customs and looks. ie more nature inclined with their moods linked to the phases of the moon - delving into their bestiality for the first half of the moon and progressively reclaiming their sanity as full moon rises (interesting twist against common legends).
If you have a reason for playing on triune aspect of the goddess I would suggest working with Angharradh. She already exist and Sehanine clearly represent the moon and as a fey deity she has even closer to unicorns than Selune :-) There is already the same aspect you wanted - Daughter of the Night Skies, Winged Mother and Heart of Gold. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 14:16:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I have always been for simple solution. From what you wrote it seems to me you are looking for a cult of Selune alone. She is represented already as maiden, mother and crone (see FaP p.57 image/avatar forms), she has portfolio of femininity, magic, mysteries and fortune (protection), she is a patron of lycathropes and helps them control their nature.
Instead I would focus on differentiating the cult from main tradition in their believe, customs and looks. ie more nature inclined with their moods linked to the phases of the moon - delving into their bestiality for the first half of the moon and progressively reclaiming their sanity as full moon rises (interesting twist against common legends).
If you have a reason for playing on triune aspect of the goddess I would suggest working with Angharradh. She already exist and Sehanine clearly represent the moon and as a fey deity she has even closer to unicorns than Selune :-) There is already the same aspect you wanted - Daughter of the Night Skies, Winged Mother and Heart of Gold.
Well, I do try to present a plausible world, where only a very powerful centralized church can present anything like a unified dogma, mythology and symbols for the divine.
Real-world pantheistic systems had hundreds of local variations of every deity or myth and syncretic deities were extremely common.
I want to reinforce the idea that all the gods are worshiped in many different ways, by worshipers, cults and even priests holding mutually contradictory views. As long as they are being worshiped and no one is acting against their portfolios, the gods don't seem to care one whit whether worshipers keep their ancestries, appearances or histories straight.
I'm not creating an elven cult, so Angharradh doesn't quite fit. On the other hand, if elves can have a triune goddess, it seems like it would likely inspire humans (or part-humans) to the same (or pentaune/heptaune divinities). |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 15:26:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Well, I do try to present a plausible world, where only a very powerful centralized church can present anything like a unified dogma, mythology and symbols for the divine.
Real-world pantheistic systems had hundreds of local variations of every deity or myth and syncretic deities were extremely common.
I want to reinforce the idea that all the gods are worshiped in many different ways, by worshipers, cults and even priests holding mutually contradictory views. As long as they are being worshiped and no one is acting against their portfolios, the gods don't seem to care one whit whether worshipers keep their ancestries, appearances or histories straight.
I'm not creating an elven cult, so Angharradh doesn't quite fit. On the other hand, if elves can have a triune goddess, it seems like it would likely inspire humans (or part-humans) to the same (or pentaune/heptaune divinities).
I can understand what do you mean but where are all those clerics taking their teachings about gods? I see some form of intunement with your patron but surely gods do not explain all those histories, mythos and mainly dogma to each of their clerics... There has to be some repository of such knowledge even if most of it is tought verbally from teacher to student - the teacher had to take that from somewhere along the line.
Some have a commune where they compare their findings and experiences some have centralized library holding the canon knowledge. Even Shar should want her clerics to understand her. They do not have to agree between themselves but as you wrote they have to uphold her portfolio/dogma.
There is a preconception that only elves can worship elven gods. If someone found about the teaching and like it why they cannot start worshiping the god? As you said if they do nothing against the god it should be OK and if there is a priest he could get his blessing for upholding the virtues and leading the worship...
I had a fey'ri character who venerated Fenmarel Mestarin - he was true to his tenets so the worship was true so even as Fenmarel himself would not be happy there was a demon liking him he did nothing. If he would be a priest that might be different. I do not see however that elven god would be offended by human worship - elves have nothing against humans per se. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 15:37:01
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I think that it's been well-established that deities require worship or they fade away. With that in mind, it's actually to the advantage of the powers that there exist many different versions of their mythology, dogma and worship.
As long as each variation is at least close enough to yield worship from those who follow that faith or mystery cult, this makes it much harder for society to evolve away from any one specific interpretation of a deity and it also maximizes the appeal to that deity to many different groups of potential worshipers.
Where do the churches and priests get their myths and their interpretations of the deities?
Same place as in the real world, I assume. They interpret dreams, visions, signs and portents, they make up stuff, they philosophize, rationalize and attempt to reconcile different versions, they collect oral legends and myths, and finally, they decide which canon they like best.
Selune has existed longer than Toril. Before her, there were no gods. It makes sense that she'd have the widest variety of different versions, in all cultures on Toril, incorporating an endless variety of aspects. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 15:59:02
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That should be gospel :-D
I totally agree that each god should have a bunch of cults and some heretics as it make it all more interesting and it should be beyond power of most churches to enforce their dogma on all of those cults. This is much detailed in 2e material where you can find info about some of those cults and heresies. Nice example is Bane orthodox vs transformed vs true church of bane...
For comparison with RL I see a big difference in that FR gods are physically present and actively communicating with their worshipers. I do not intend to offense anybody who believe - it is only my heathen opinion. |
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BrennonGoldeye
Learned Scribe
105 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 21:07:54
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| A major plotline in my campaign has Selune/Mystra(1)/Sune as a Triune that started looking elsewhere for worship. |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 21:28:56
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If you want a really big contrast that gives it contradiction, go for Selune/Mystra/Shar.
They are forever bonded, but a lot of it is hate as well as love and the worshipers involved try to reconsile the contradiction. |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 22:32:10
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
If you want a really big contrast that gives it contradiction, go for Selune/Mystra/Shar.
They are forever bonded, but a lot of it is hate as well as love and the worshipers involved try to reconsile the contradiction.
While that could make sense because they do have some ties, it might be very hard to perform the worship. What about Selune/Mystra/Leira. There's already ties of Leira to the moon (in fact the residents of the moon refer to it as Leira). It might be something of a heresy within Nimbral and on the moon. Maybe more of a focus on magic, illusion, enchantment, etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2019 : 23:06:48
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
If you want a really big contrast that gives it contradiction, go for Selune/Mystra/Shar.
They are forever bonded, but a lot of it is hate as well as love and the worshipers involved try to reconsile the contradiction.
Selune and Shar are indisputably intertwined, but that's a different kind of duality.
"It’s just one story. The oldest. [...] Light versus dark." |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2019 : 18:15:47
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I really like the idea of mixing Selune/Mystra/Leira. :)
then again, I'm completely convinced that during the times of troubles there was this thelma and louise type experience where Leira and Waukeen got into a whole mess of trouble through a series of divine misadventures. :D |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2019 : 20:47:27
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
I really like the idea of mixing Selune/Mystra/Leira. :)
then again, I'm completely convinced that during the times of troubles there was this thelma and louise type experience where Leira and Waukeen got into a whole mess of trouble through a series of divine misadventures. :D
Leira and Waukeen?
Did they have anything to do witb Enron? |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2019 : 21:49:56
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not much.
It's from my research when I did Amn
Leira covered for Waukeen when she was missing.
You only do that when you have a real friendship.
Seeing as you got the goddess of lies and the goddess of greed being friends when they were cast on the realms during the times of troubles, I expect a ton of shenanigans from the experience.
If it were a movie it would have had the caption "In these times, they are the trouble." :D |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
Edited by - shades of eternity on 06 Nov 2019 21:52:09 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2019 : 21:55:31
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
not much.
It's from my research when I did Amn
Leira covered for Waukeen when she was missing.
You only do that when you have a real friendship.
Seeing as you got the goddess of lies and the goddess of greed being friends when they were cast on the realms during the times of troubles, I expect a ton of shenanigans from the experience.
If it were a movie it would have had the caption "In these times, they are the trouble." :D
Lliira covered for Waukeen when she went missing. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2019 : 22:37:16
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
I really like the idea of mixing Selune/Mystra/Leira. :)
then again, I'm completely convinced that during the times of troubles there was this thelma and louise type experience where Leira and Waukeen got into a whole mess of trouble through a series of divine misadventures. :D
Just to add to that mixture further, Midnight's truename was Ariel..Leira...Ariel...Leira
Something that could be used in the heresy.... that the idea that Midnight had ever been raised up at all was in fact a lie. The idea might be that they believe that it was Leira taking on the role.
That being said, as far as "truths" go, I prefer the idea Leira and Mask were in cahoots and working against Cyric (and that Leira was the copy of the Cyrinishad, and that she infected Cyric). I've gone down that road here several times though, so I'll leave the details out. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2019 : 23:27:35
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I'd be more worried about the truth if the goddess of lies weren't involved. :p
(but cripse there shouldn't be goddesses that are near homophones of each other...yesh). |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2019 : 14:04:45
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Leira pronunciation (LAIR-ah) Lliira pronunciation (LEER-ah)
say this aloud and think
"You're a liar"
While its not a perfect sound match, I'd more likely link the spelling/sounding of her name to "Liar" than I would "Lliira". What I do find interesting since we spoke of Waukeen and Lliira is the sound of Lliira's name to the sound of a real world currency (i.e. the Italian Lira). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Faith of the Lady
