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a Browncoat forever
Acolyte
1 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Sep 2019 : 05:20:41
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So the idea:
Sir X steals the Quill of Denier (I don't remember if that's canon or if I conjured it) which can perfectly copy any manuscript. He also has acquired a spell scroll of BLANK that allows the user to cast a spell on the descendants of person or corpse (which was properly stolen from somebody on the internet, I don't remember who, but it was just too cool NOT to steal). The PCs will be tasked with recovering the Quill of Denier and in doing so will learn of the Scroll of BLANK and Sir X's plan to copy it, and use those copies to cast magic on the bones of long dead kings of humans, halflings and dwarves (all fey derived folk will be immune because of feywild stuff) basically allowing Sir X to rule the world of Men.
The twist?
Sir X isn't a bad guy. After fighting his minions a few times and delving a few tombs to prevent Sir X from getting genetically important corpses for his grand strategy, it will be revealed that Sir X's actual plan is to use the Scroll of BLANK to immunize humans, halflings and dwarves from the progenitor magic by doing a ritual casting on the oldest common ancestor of each race left in the world. And then Shar's minions enter stage left...
The problem:
Gods are very nearly omniscient in FR.
My understanding is that forgotten realms deities basically know everything happening in the realms where their names have been spoken, though a deity can interfere with this perception if they are of equal or greater divine rank. But it also appears that Gods can communicate directly with anyone in the world at will and this communication is unblock-able.
So if Sir X is actually a good guy, even if Shar (greater goddess) wants Torm (greater god) to be ignorant of the Sir X's activities (because she's manipulating the PCs group to stop Sir X from protecting the mortals with his ritual and has a team of minions ready to sweep in and take the Scolls of BLANK and bones for a casting more to Shar's liking) what's to prevent Sir X from praying to Torm revealing his true motives so Torm can relay this information to the player characters?
Exactly how does one trick or hide a mortal's intentions from a god- even if you've got a greater deity with their thumb on the scale?
Ideas?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2019 : 15:53:04
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I think that trying to keep Torm ignorant is the wrong approach.
Just have Shar waiting in the wings, so to speak, to steal the goodies. There's no need to jump through hoops trying to deceive another god.
Of course, you could twist things, just a bit... Sir X doesn't have to be a good guy! Bad guys can still do good deeds. Maybe Sir X had a beloved spouse, sibling, or child, and this loved one died of some disease that magic couldn't touch. That's when Sir X learns of this spell scroll, and decides that never again will a person be lost to this disease. He's a bad guy, and he'll step on anyone that gets in the way, but he will do this thing. And this magical immunization, though a good deed, will also be his middle finger to the gods for letting this happen in the first place. Good results, but questionable reasons.
And if he's not a follower of a good-aligned deity, there's no reason a good-aligned deity would know what's going on.
Oh, and with a magical immunization plan, you've got to factor in Talona, as well.
You could really twist the idea, too... Vhaeraun has his traitor-priestesses, priestesses of Lolth who secretly serve Vhaeraun.
Maybe Sir X serves some other power, or finds some magical item that shields his innermost thoughts. Or maybe there's a way he can temporarily forget his real goal. So he does this, and joins the priesthood of Talona, with the goal of spreading a magical plague all across the Realms. It's only when he's got everything he needs -- or is close to it -- that the real plan comes back into play.
There was an item, I want to say it was called a thought bottle, that basically allowed a person to put some information in it and that info was entirely removed from their mind, until they reopened the bottle.
And in the Dragonlance comic books, back in the day, the way Raistlin was able to betray Takhisis was to remove the plans of betrayal from his mind and put them into someone else, with that person compelled to find Raistlin. That way he was able to stand before the goddess, get his mind read, and have her trust him enough to put him as her final guardian. After he passed her security checks, then the gnome with the secret plans showed up and Raistlin remembered his true purpose.
So go with something like that, and again, there's no need to actively deceive a good power. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2019 : 19:47:19
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The gods are indeed very active and real forces in the Realms, but as Wooly said, there are examples of traitor-priestesses (drow who serve Vhaeraun in secret). Mask was also able to trick Shar in the Erevis Cale books, though it probably helped that Mask has trickery in his portfolio.
A mortal may not be able to trick a deity directly, but a deity might be able to use a mortal to trick another deity. If Shar is manipulating Sir X, but Sir X's intentions are good, and his heart belongs to Torm, then he himself may not even realize he is being manipulated. The success of manipulation is going to depend on the deities involved. Shar would probably more have success at it than others, considering her nature. Torm will likely eventually catch on, but it is possible for Shar to do some damage first. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2019 : 23:14:50
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Shar is the goddess of secrets and forgetfulness, she has much higher divine rank than Torm (she's basically top power tier just below Mystra and Selune while he's basically just a fancy niche underling for Tyr and Tempus)... and other neutral/evil deities (like Mask, Leira, or Cyric) "often" work (as allies or as dupes) to conceal Shar's plans from outside interference. So it seems quite possible for Shar to deceive Torm (or even to deceive Torm's followers).
But if it's just lowly mortals then you've got people who can lie vs people who can Detect Lie (or ESP or whatever), and people can always make mistakes. Indeed, the liar may himself be deceived and practicing no deception at all when pursuing the truth (as he knows it). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Deceiving a Deity?
