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Seethyr
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  19:38:25  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
With the vibrant and rich variety of cultures and history in the Realms I’m astounded that we don’t hear more about public or private museums. Wouldn’t a cosmopolitan city such as Waterdeep have at least a few such places? Are there well known ones in the Realms?

Does the Herald’s Holdfast qualify? I believe there was once one in Mezro.

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Edited by - Seethyr on 15 Apr 2018 19:40:37

Markustay
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  20:30:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The various chapter houses of the Adventurer's Guild should have their own, from their own member's exploits. Royal palaces should also have their own museum-rooms, or at least, BE museums themselves (with banners, suits of armor, famous swords, etc., all on display all over). A major university might have them, but as for 'private' ones, that kind of stuff tends to be considered 'treasure' and gets sold into private collections, so it would be rather hard for them to arise in a typical fantasy setting (with murder-hobos).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 15 Apr 2018 20:31:27
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  20:49:39  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Museums as we have them now are probably very rare or non-existent. More common would be stuff like private collections closed to the public (owned by royalty, nobles, the elite, etc.). If I had a guess, the most access that common people would have to big collections would probably be traveling carnivals and things like that. Traveling collections of wares and oddities from elsewhere.

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Markustay
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  22:24:59  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Plus, it's kind of hard to get excited over a 2000 year old piece of broken crockery, when you can actually talk to someone who is 2000 years old.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gyor
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  22:50:59  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Plus, it's kind of hard to get excited over a 2000 year old piece of broken crockery, when you can actually talk to someone who is 2000 years old.



Not everyone has access to such ancient beings, even Elves rarely live 2,000 years.

Besides Realms history is far older then 2,000 years, imagine the interest a dinner plate from an ancient Sarrukh Empire would gain, an Empire that existed before Dragons even walked across the world, bwfore the first Sundering.
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  23:16:04  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-We're in the know, but I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that even most scholars in the Realms are unaware that such races/nations/groups/individuals in antiquity existed.

-Look at the older stuff in Evermeet. It's a collection of myths going back some 25,000 years ago, recorded and kept by an extremely long-lived race that, in the mainstream of Sun and Moon Elven culture, put an emphasis on ancestry and history and all of that. That earlier stuff is basically very light on many specifics and details, only giving us the general narratives.

-I would think that, when it comes to races/nations/groups/individuals that are even older, or more secretive, or have pretty much no evidence left of their existence, even most scholars would be unaware of their existence, or if aware, have very little information about them, let alone physical artifacts.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  23:21:29  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Plus, it's kind of hard to get excited over a 2000 year old piece of broken crockery, when you can actually talk to someone who is 2000 years old.



Not everyone has access to such ancient beings, even Elves rarely live 2,000 years.

Besides Realms history is far older then 2,000 years, imagine the interest a dinner plate from an ancient Sarrukh Empire would gain, an Empire that existed before Dragons even walked across the world, bwfore the first Sundering.



Who would be interested in that, though, aside from a scholar? Most people in the Realms wouldn't know what a sarrukh was if one walked up and bit them in the backside.

I'd expect there would be a lot more private collections than anything approaching a museum, because most people aren't going to have much use for a museum, and few would be willing to travel beyond their own city to go to one.

Pretty much the only way to have a museum in the Realms, I think, would be to have one sponsored by the state or by a church, because they'd have the money to run such a profitless venture.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Apr 2018 23:22:33
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Markustay
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  23:37:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Pretty much the only way to have a museum in the Realms, I think, would be to have one sponsored by the state or by a church, because they'd have the money to run such a profitless venture.

And then there would definitely be an 'agenda' attached to the dispalys...

"And here we have an axe from the ebil barbarian horde... who's lands we annexed hundreds of years ago. Hanging on the wall is one of their brutal tribal standards... the dark brown stains is there blood..."

Not only is History "written by the winners", the museums are built by them as well. The idea of flaunting 'trophies' of defeated enemies in front of your populace is as old as humans, but the Romans took it to a whole 'nother level. Or did you think the stuffed animals at the museums didn't start out as trophies being displayed by 'big game hunters' proving their manhood?

The displays of neanderthals making fire? That just helps us feel superior. Its psychological conditioning is all, and a lot of it is probably faked (or at least, they have to 'make up' the stories around stuff, because they don't actually know the truth... no-one does). Not that I don't love going to museums and related shows as much as i can myself, you just have to remain aware that none of it is real. Last summer I was looking forward to this 'Viking Show' in NYC, and went with my sons. As I read the displays, I realized every single object being shown was a reproduction - none of it was real. A lot of it based upon fragments found. In other words, it was all 'made up'.

Keep that in mind when you go to a museum - its just a very grand work of fiction designed to impress and make you feel good about your place in the world. I once worked for a British WW2 veteran, and we were talking about the war, or rather, my version of it I learned in school. Then he showed me a British history book... everything was different. In that, we barely played a part and THEY won the war. That's how it works - no-one knows the truth of anything because everyone puts their spin on it. Even museums.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 16 Apr 2018 :  01:42:40  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Don't mention the war
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

827 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2018 :  03:18:17  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know, it's all fun and games right until that piece of broken crockery turns out to be the seal on Thingamabob the All-Devourer's tomb, or some ancient elven pornographic lithograph turns out to be an incantation that releases Hubbahubba the Ridiculously Endowed, Drainer of Men, from her slumber in the Abyss.

Edited by - LordofBones on 16 Apr 2018 03:18:50
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Markustay
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Posted - 16 Apr 2018 :  04:49:38  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True.

In Black Panther, that one museum piece turned into quite a ruckus (and like I said, its because they 'got it wrong', and really had no idea what it was).

On another note, the one and only 'classic dungeon' I ever created and ran in 3e was a museum built by a mad mage centuries past (based very loosely on Castle Greyhawk and Zagyg the mad mage). It even had restrooms.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

292 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2018 :  05:24:44  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First thing that came to mind was the Hall of Wonders in Baldur's Gate.

It is a museum and shop, probably closer to what we would consider a science museum. Still it has an entrance fee of 4 sp and has things on display. People come from far around to see and take notes / get ideas. Some items are for purchase to high coin buyers.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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Bragi
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Posted - 17 Apr 2018 :  00:56:24  Show Profile  Visit Bragi's Homepage  Send Bragi an AOL message  Send Bragi an ICQ Message  Send Bragi a Yahoo! Message Send Bragi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a large non-cannon museum created in my campaign located within the city of Chrysalis. As entire populations of elves fled the Ityak-Ortheel and found refuge in Synnoria they would bring with them precious reminders of their destroyed settlements. Selected possessions from these refugee elves are now stored in a museum within the city. Most of the items were donated to the city as an offering of thanks to the Llewyrr elves. The museum was destroyed in 1365 DR but later rebuilt.Here is the journal entry when my players were in the city.

http://www.epicwords.com/entries/30435

In Pursuit of Better Worlds,
Bragi of Erin
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe

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Posted - 17 Apr 2018 :  01:13:37  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Candlekeep could be considered a museum of sorts, given all the rare and historical books likely to be found within.

:)




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moonbeast
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Posted - 18 Apr 2018 :  03:45:40  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like Baba Yaga's museum (trophy room) best. The one located inside her hut.

Baba's showroom even contained a WW2 Soviet tank. How many Faerunian super-NPCs can boast that?!

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sfdragon
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Posted - 18 Apr 2018 :  03:50:56  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you mean like the golarion npc of the same name.......

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 18 Apr 2018 :  03:56:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

you mean like the golarion npc of the same name.......



Baba Yaga is from real world legends; according to the Wikipedia entry on Baba Yaga, references to her go back at least 250 years.

She's also been in pretty much every flavor of D&D.

Golarion and Midgard both have her as NPCs; in the latter, the gnomes have turned to the 11 Hells to protect them from Baba Yaga.

She was in the World of Darkness, too; IIRC, she was a 3rd generation vampire and was pretty much the most powerful supernatural entity in all of Russia.

The Iron Kingdoms doesn't include Baba Yaga, but it's pretty clear that the Old Witch is based very heavily on her.

Those are just the appearances I'm familiar with. I'm sure she's been in a lot of other games.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Apr 2018 03:59:16
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sfdragon
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Posted - 18 Apr 2018 :  22:40:31  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
oh I knew about the real world legend...

was familiar with the Midgard part

the other 2.. didn't know.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Markustay
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Posted - 18 Apr 2018 :  23:30:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And I am STILL looking for that baba-Yaga knock-off that was in a 4e or 5e source. Her hut had tree-roots for legs instead, and she had a VERY similar-sounding name.

I'm either going nuts, or she is still hanging around with that Candlekeep illithid (I'll find you yet, you slimey bastich!)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Seethyr
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Posted - 19 Apr 2018 :  00:03:30  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dancing_Hut_of_Baba_Yaga

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sfdragon
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Posted - 19 Apr 2018 :  00:27:11  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
4e or 5e.... might be 4e as no 5e feywild book or article is out.....that I know of

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Grendel_Greataxe
Acolyte

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Posted - 20 Apr 2018 :  16:12:25  Show Profile Send Grendel_Greataxe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Plus, it's kind of hard to get excited over a 2000 year old piece of broken crockery, when you can actually talk to someone who is 2000 years old.



Not everyone has access to such ancient beings, even Elves rarely live 2,000 years.

Besides Realms history is far older then 2,000 years, imagine the interest a dinner plate from an ancient Sarrukh Empire would gain, an Empire that existed before Dragons even walked across the world, bwfore the first Sundering.



Who would be interested in that, though, aside from a scholar? Most people in the Realms wouldn't know what a sarrukh was if one walked up and bit them in the backside.

I'd expect there would be a lot more private collections than anything approaching a museum, because most people aren't going to have much use for a museum, and few would be willing to travel beyond their own city to go to one.

Pretty much the only way to have a museum in the Realms, I think, would be to have one sponsored by the state or by a church, because they'd have the money to run such a profitless venture.



FWIW, I'm currently running a campaign drawing from the Sertrous entry in Elder Evils, and as part of it the players will have to delve into the Sarrukh ruins under Old Owl Well to wake up Arthindol the Terraseer and learn what they need to do to prevail. One of the PCs backstories includes being a Sarrukh scholar from Silverymoon.

I'm not sure if that makes your point or argues against it, but I just felt like sharing.

Returning to the Realms after 17 years. It's good to be home.
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Markustay
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Posted - 20 Apr 2018 :  21:15:42  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does it say somewhere he is under there? Or is that homebrew? I vaguely recall something along those lines...

quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

4e or 5e.... might be 4e as no 5e feywild book or article is out.....that I know of
I was working late one night, looking through TONS of sources for inspiration & info, while doing the Nentir Vale/The North conversion (which I MUST get back to soon!!!)

That means it could be nearly anywhere, but my best guess would be 4e era Dungeon or Dragon articles (when they were part of the DDi).

Buuuuuuut... it could even be in something from Paizo, so there, I am even more out-of-my-depth. However, since Paizo uses the real Baba-Yaga as a main part of their setting, I'm just not seeing them also creating a knock-off version. Sounds way more 4e/Feywild to me.

It may have even been in some adventurer's League stuff (but since I am recalling a lot of really good art in the same book, I truly doubt it would be in a sub-standard source like that).

I don't think this will help at all, but IIRC, it was a 'side quest' kind of thing off a bigger AP. Since its not ringing any bells for anyone here (including people who had written for the 4e DDi), I'm starting to doubt my own sanity. LOL

On the bright side, then I have an amazing imagination in my dreams - I can 'see' the artwork in my head still - it was very good. Too bad my skills weren't up to what my brain can create.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Apr 2018 21:18:02
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moonbeast
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Posted - 21 Apr 2018 :  14:22:52  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

you mean like the golarion npc of the same name.......



Wooly is correct. Not only is Baba a Russian mythical legend, it was also AD&D via Dragon Magazine that made her a powerful NPC villain introduced in some adventure, this is way back as early as maybe in the 1980s? And that years before Pathfinder even came into existence. Baba Yagas Dancing Hut was also an official D&D "artifact" as early as the first Dungeon Masters Guide, published long before the first edition of Pathfinder.

In THAT old Dragon Mag D&D adventure I hinted at, Baba Yaga's Hut was like a demiplane inside, with numerous levels for Players to explore. One of those levels was Babas museum. It contained relics she collected through her travels in space and time. One relic in her museum was a WW2 Soviet tank. Another was some vehicle she got from the Steampunk era.
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Rils
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Posted - 26 Jun 2018 :  18:37:30  Show Profile Send Rils a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And I am STILL looking for that baba-Yaga knock-off that was in a 4e or 5e source. Her hut had tree-roots for legs instead, and she had a VERY similar-sounding name.

I'm either going nuts, or she is still hanging around with that Candlekeep illithid (I'll find you yet, you slimey bastich!)



You're thinking of Baba Lysaga in the 5e Curse of Strahd book.

Dugmaren Brightmantle is my homey.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 26 Jun 2018 :  19:10:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rils

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And I am STILL looking for that baba-Yaga knock-off that was in a 4e or 5e source. Her hut had tree-roots for legs instead, and she had a VERY similar-sounding name.

I'm either going nuts, or she is still hanging around with that Candlekeep illithid (I'll find you yet, you slimey bastich!)



You're thinking of Baba Lysaga in the 5e Curse of Strahd book.




Ye dancing gods, what a blatant rip-off.

I don't mind tweaking real-world legends, the way TSR/WotC has done several times over with Baba Yaga, or the way she's been used in the other game settings I mentioned in my earlier post. (Golarion's Baba Yaga conquered a nation in a matter of days and is the mother of Rasputin; Midgard's Baba Yaga is a practically a force of nature and has the entire race of gnomes so terrified of her that they literally made a deal with the powers of the Eleven Hells to protect them from her)

And I don't mind going with something inspired by but clearly different, like the Old Witch in Warmachine; she has a warjack instead of a dancing hut, and while scary, isn't as scary as some versions of Baba Yaga.

But this Baba Lysaga, who has a hut with tree legs and who flies around in a skull instead of a cauldron? That's just a lame rip-off. Either make Baba Yaga recognizable but your own, or make something that's more than just filing off the serial numbers.

If they'd called her Lysaga (without the Baba), and skipped the hut and the skull, it wouldn't have been a blatant rip-off and would have appeared to be something new.

The way they did it, though, calls attention to itself, it's so blatant. It comes across as just plain laziness.

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