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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 14:11:43
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So, I started digging in on Ulgarth lore in another thread.... and I can see I'm going to go off on a tangent.... so in a rare instance of restraint, I'm going to break it off fast and start a new thread.
So, what are some things we know about Ulgarth?
Its population came from the Raurin long ago, so I'm going to say ex-slaves who were NOT of Mulan descent. This may be a strong reason why this country and Mulhorand have traditionally not liked one another.
In 202 DR, a LOT of the folk of Ulgarth were slain, and then later "outlaws" came and "refilled" the territory.
In the other thread, I noted that in some old ruins in the Desert of Desolation modules there is the "Cursed City of Stone" (the city of Medinat Muskawoon) in which there are temples to (Greek - Prometheus & Tyche, Norse - Balder, Celtic - Dunatis, and Finnish - Untamo ) gods. So, I'm positing that there may have been a pantheon of sorts that included these gods (not necessarily all 4 pantheons but members from each).
I would like to know if there's any canon references to when the fall of that city occurred. Will pursue later if not, but gotta get ready for work.
Ulgarth is noted for making a cinnamon-like spice called mingari which they were trading through their sole trade partner of Durpar prior to the spellplague. Many people were combining mingari with fruits of some sort from Maztica to make "Ketjap".... which sounds like ketchup, but is exactly why I wouldn't make it be cinnamon and tomatos.
The military is commonly made of criminals serving their sentence.
The common man is known to carry weapons, and most everyone is trained to wield weapons.
Gotta head out, but anything anyone else comes up with regarding the area... would appreciate.
Weren't there some novels put here? Was there any real flavor to them?
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 14:19:19
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I saw "data mining" and immediately wondered if Ulgarth had anything to do with Etherium. But nope, they don't make cryptocoin, they make a cinnamon-like spice called mingari.
Pay no heed to my interruption, nothing to see here, carry on, as you were. |
[/Ayrik] |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 14:25:56
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I know everything about Ulgarth: 
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ulgarth
Seriously, that's everything there is to know but some politics in "Darkly, Through a Glass of Ale" in Realms of Mystery and possibly the Double Diamond Triangle Saga (the only novels to touch on the place, but they're focused on the Utter East) I haven't yet covered.
Though I didn't make the ketjap = ketchup connection, thanks. 
Notably, the realm produced the Padhra, the Realms' own Buddha. Which gives a very different spin on the place. I think the Padhran faith is still a thing there: the River Xon is the Sacred River Gaya where Padhran pilgrims start. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
Edited by - BadCatMan on 26 Oct 2017 07:23:25 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 16:34:49
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I think we re-spun some of that, back in the old Utter East thread on the WotC boards.
You wouldn't have happened to save all that, would you ave BCM? I recall that I had it where the 'last princess of Thommar' married the king of Ulgarth, and thus that realm (what was left of it - Durpar had 'eaten' everything west of the River Xon) became incorporated in Ulgarth.I suppose, if thats the case, the Padhra actually may have come from Thommar (since that realms was bisected by the Xon). The princess was the one mentioned in the Blood & Magic video game, BTW - I forget her name as well. We had it all worked out, way back when.
EDIT:
Wasn't their a mention of Ulgarth in the OGB? A flying ship? Or was that just the 'Utter East' in general? I think Bruce Cordell kind of covered that in Darkvision, though (Durpar has a bunch of Halruaan flying ships, even though all other sources claim they don't ever sell them).
But then weirdly, Once Around the Realms fixes that, sort of. It appears Halruua disposes decommissioned airships by tossing them in a 'ship graveyard' (junkyard), and enterprising individuals have fixed some of those up for use (and in this case, possibly for sale). I don't know why Halruua doesn't monitor that situation more closely. Then again, maybe they have a way of 'reasserting control' over their old ships, so they're not worried about it (so they can 'take them back' whenever they feel like it, in the meantime, maybe they use them to scry other lands, or are just letting others maintain their 'junkers' for emergencies).
EDIT2:
The Parsanic League - from the Double Diamond novels or the B&M video game - is directly south of Ulgarth, on the coast. We connected that together with things going on in the VG, and each of the four main cities (I believe the names of all four are canon) identifies with a different element... which would give them a whole different spin now that 4e is behind us (and we know about primordials). In fact, I could give all of the uE a new spin from what we had, because of the primordials (we had used Elder Evils, but primordials would probably work so much better for our 'sealed beings of immense power'). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2017 16:50:41 |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 08:47:28
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I did save the Utter East thread. All fourteen pages of it. 
Canonically, there isn't much to say about Thommar, it could be anything.
Regardless, putting Prince Surtava/the Padhra's home on the River Xon/Gaya somewhere makes good sense and explains the pilgrimage and centrality of the rivers to the Padhran faith, if Surtava simply followed the river upstream.
The only princesses in Blood & Magic are the princess of Doegan and Princess Roxanna of Edenvale, both well in the Utter East.
Ah, no, checking my saved posts, you invented a "Queen TarAneh of Thommar" to marry King Drasna of Ulgarth, which is well in the 1300s.
The OGB mentioned a flying ship, the Blue Diamond, from the Utter East. But this was changed to Halruaa in later books. A lot of early references to the Utter East were retconned to Kara-Tur or to somewhere in the south, which made my research tricky.
The "Free Cities of Parsanic" were the setting of the Realms of Mystery story, "Darkly, Through a Glass of Ale", and perhaps mentioned in the DDTS. They replaced the "Realm of Lands", "Realm of Tides", and "Realm of Fire", from the Blood & Magic game, hence we imagined an elemental theme, but that's not especially evident later. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 13:12:44
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Pulling some of what I put in another thread
After I wrote up what I had written, I started also thinking about the folks that came in 348 DR
In 348 DR, a group of outlaws, fleeing the justice of the priest-kings of Mulhorand, came to Ulgarth.
Nothing truly says these guys are Mulhorandi, so I started thinking about the other cultures in the area, and the Shaar is populated with Arkaiun. Since the Arkaiun were made from Nar refugees of Shandalaur (so basically like Rashemi/Raumathari) and Illuskans from Ruathym, and they were outlaws bugging Mulhorand, I'd half be it was these Arkaiuns that fled to Ulgarth.
So, I saw something that I remembered about Ffolk and Northmen settling here in the past, but I had thought that was maybe back when we were also trying to discuss putting Jakandor into the realms. So, I thought it was homebrew by Markustay. Was it? Not necessarily a problem either way, just trying to keep this as close to canon as I can.
My main reason of interest is to put a GLIMPSE into it in some of what I'm developing. I'm kind of picturing the Metahel Pantheon that I'm developing that I'm placing in Anchorome and then having travelled with some of the Tharchs to get "reborn" amongst these people as well. So, since they are on the sea, and since they've been in Abeir for the last century.... maybe they started going raiding on the Abeiran cultures. For that matter, they may have taken over ruling of Var the Golden (or perhaps the people of Var get killed off by genasi from Shyr, THEN the Ulgarth people push them out). Maybe they even took over the seas on Abeir with whatever was left of the people of Var joining them. Now they're back in Toril... and so the pirates of Toril and they are at odds. Maybe even they had setup some kind of secured overland caravan path in Abeir that travelled to the Tharch of Peleveran, and now said path is disrupted by different lands being in the middle now. Or maybe there's some kind of portal connecting both (or there was one, and now its broken). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 14:08:23
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By the way, I like that in that deserts of desolation module that Untamo has a ruined temple in the Cursed City of Stone (Medinat Muskawoon) in the middle of the skysea (which I actually need to go locate... I have no idea physically where this is... but it doesn't have a whole lot of bearing here.... though it might be worth noting WHEN that city got destroyed if we have any canonical references... if for instance, it was in the last 600 years, then those deities may have come to that city from other cultures... if older, it may be the source of them in other cultures).
Anyway, since Abeir has a hinted at linkage to dream magic, I plan on having Ningal (Nanna-Sin's wife) coming back and she was a goddess of dream interpretation. Having Untamo in this country as a god of dreams works.
Also, given the country's fascination with getting horses from Dambrath, etc... and given that the one thing I always recalled from the desert of desolation module was this Durpari Airlancers..... thinking having this country have some (a lot of) pegasi that they have bred over this last century would be interesting/useful. Maybe they even have problems with griffins as a result.
Oh, and in the other thread you mentioned the idea of troll and drow having a linkage. It could work with the idea of maybe this culture calling dark elves "trow" and just changing her name from Trollkin to Trowkin (pronounce Troe-kin... as maybe these easterners don't say it like drow sounds like cow, but drow sounds like row) works. It would be a little iffy though to use the actual word troll, from an in world perspective, because drow and trolls are very little alike.... but I could see some linkage between trolls, ogres, hill giants, etc.... (as in big, stupid, dangerous beasties, not necessarily a blood relation). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 26 Oct 2017 14:18:37 |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 08:17:28
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I like the Arkaiun theory; it explains the dominant western/northern culture of Ulgarth rather well. Although it's early, Arkaiuns of Eltabranar invaded and raided Mulhorand and Unther in 202 DR, and the forces of Mulhorand wiped out the barbarian tribes of Ulgarth the same year. It suggests a connection of some kind, but I don't know enough about the Arkaiuns or Eltabranar to speculate.
As for the date of the fall of Medinat Muskawoon, just about all the history in Desert of Desolation is "1000 years ago", in the time of Martek and when the curse of Amun-Re began the desertification that caused the fall (although Medinat Muskawoon had a slow decay). Assuming the current era of the module is the mid–1300s DR, then this all happened in the mid-300s DR. That's bang on when the "outlaws" fled the Mulhorandi and came to Ulgarth, 348 DR.
Since Mulhorand isn't even mentioned in Desert of Desolation (though people of both Unther and the "Uttermost East" visited Medinat Muskawoon), AFAICT, it's difficult to reconcile the brief hints of Mulhorand's conquests in the Raurin and the events of DoD. But there the Egyptian-styled Amun-Re, Pharaoh of Bakar, relates "So it was that I made mighty and terrible war upon my neighbors, plundering their lands of wealth for my own passage. I did enter a contract with a great mage to work a mighty wonder, and, upon the sweat and blood of my people, I did build a theft-proof tomb." and "My people turned against me with bitter hatred. I not only robbed our borderlands but taxed grievously my own people, and so took from them their wealth. They rose up in anger, demanding their gold and precious gems, their lives and freedom." Then he cursed the land, wiping out many peoples. Now this sort of behaviour sounds exactly right for Mulhorandi expansionism and destruction of local tribes in the southeast.
So it looks like "Mulhorand" in the core-setting histories is not necessarily the Mulhorand Empire based in Skuld, but could sometimes be a Mulhorandi-settled kingdom (perhaps still a client or puppet of the empire). We have Bakar, under Pharaoh Amun-Re, and another unknown realm under a "desert pharaoh" "whose name is lost in antiquity" (the one who received the Star of Shah-Pelar). Amun-Re's tyranny over the region could well have driven people south into Ulgarth. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 09:01:45
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Any chance you can send me that thread, BCM?
TarAneh doesn't really sound like something I would make-up whole cloth - I must have based that off of something. maybe not from FR, but from somewhere.
I am 99% sure the stuff regarding the Ffolk and Northmen settling Ulgarth is canon, possibly from 1e SS. Also, we have the nation of Konigheim, which would be rather hard to explain (its STILL rather hard to explain, even with the Northmen connection LOL).
I'm still convinced the uE was settled by 'wandering tribes' coming north out of Zakhara, who then continued on into the Golden Waters area. I think the Imaksari themselves were something else now (thats a major change from my thinking back when we were doing that thread). I think after many centuries, other groups also migrated in, included a group of Ang - The Mar - and later those people from the Moonshaes, so the place is a cultural hodgepodge. Ulgarth, however, seems to have been 'ground zero' for those people, and they must have spread south from there, because that nation isn't as weird and mixed at the stuff further down.
I know we also figured there had to be a series of back-and-forth invasions by Arkaiuns(sp?) and maybe other barbarians (Rus?) out of the Shar; we pictured one mighty 'host' that eventually got turned back by Mulhorand and Unther (when they finally took the threat seriously), and then it went into the Golden Waters region, and even 'took over' for a time, and then was eventually driven back out and north for one final 'hurrah' against the old Empires, I think. It was so long ago I can't recall the specifics.
I'd really have to go back over that thread to piece the history together we assembled for the region. I know I've re-thought quite a few things since back then. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Oct 2017 09:03:11 |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 09:54:04
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It's a lot of files, I just saved the webpages. I'll try to zip it. Message me an email address.
Nope, there is no canon lore for the Ffolk or Northmen in Ulgarth, they're only in the Utter East through the novels. In one image, the barbarian horsemen east of Ulgarth do look like Northmen, however, hence we've been speculating on a connection.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ulgarth_2.jpg
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BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 14:37:02
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Please please please pretty please find that reference to the ffolk and northmen.
Thinking.... what if Untamo, lord of dreams, sent dreams to the Northmen (who may be related to the Illuskans of the Arkaiun) and maybe the Ffolk (who have a very Finnish culture) to come do SOMETHING.... and drew them to the area. It helps me establish more of the power of the god of dreams in the area. Gotta head to work. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 17:30:05
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| I'd always thought the ffolk of the Moonshaes had a very Celtic/Brythonic culture, not really a Finnish one. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 19:15:58
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They do.
Thats why I placed the Finnish culture up around the Gur region (Iceroot Forest and Northern Plain of Horses). In fact, I hold that the Gur are actual proto-Finnns.
I'll send you a PM BCM - I really need to re-read that thread if I am remembering things that badly. I think you may be right about the Ffolk/Northmen being in the Blood & Magic video game (culturally - even the names sound like it), and we just applied that to why Ulgarth is so weird and so unlike the rest of the Golden Waters; we folded it into the Utter East instead, to account for all that.
Theoretically, those cultures could have come from Oerth, from portals. I suppose the neo-Celts may have come from (D&D) Earth, but that would place them there pretty far back along the timeline*, and then the Northmen (perhaps actual Vikings, but seriously, nearly every setting has guys like that) may have come later. Thus, 'Konigheim' may NOT beone of the original Five Kingdoms - the name may have been changed from something else. In fact, I think thats how we rationalized it anyway - they stole that land from the Mar (and Indianesque culture also in the region). All I am doing now is spreading it out further along the timeline (which might make more sense - why bunch things up?)
*weirdly, although I don't mind (too much) adding in 'temporal explanations' (time travel) within a setting, I REALLY hate doing so across settings - if I put a culture from somewhere else in my Realms, it has to have existed at the exact same time in that other place. so, not 'Celts' arriving in the Utter east a few hundred years ago. Thats why I threw Oerth into the mix.
Do cultures/land always swap back and forth between Toril and Abeir and stay in the same place? I know I proposed a new location for Abeir in some of my mappings/musings, but I am not comfortable with that idea. I'd rather think there is a corresponding place on each world, and thats how it works, otherwise how do places 'snap back' to their original positions when things get reSundered/rePlagued? Because if we were willing to go with 'its all random', there could have been some Ffolk displaced in the Moonshaes a millennia ago, went to Abeir, and then 'came back' in the Utter east a few centuries past. Just saying that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, though. I suppose its only slightly less probable then 'a storm blew fleets of ships of-course thousands of miles, and then the people just never bothered going home'. Literally blew them right around a big honkin' peninsula and everything... I think I like the time/planer explanations better. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 19:20:24
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Also, I know someone posted it recently, and I keep forgetting about it, and I think somehow I keep forgetting to save a link - there is a site where most of those old WotC threads are cached. Does anyone have that link?
Nevermind, found it. 
Now to see if the Utter East thread is there...
EDIT:
I hadn't even realized Tom Costa had been involved in that thread. He's the one who suggested checking the Mar entry in RoF. Still, right on the very first page there, BCM, you yourself are pretty sure that the Northmen and Ffolk DID 'invade' Ulgarth and the Utter east. You wee even fiddling with a timeline before I was.
And Brian James made some of the stuff from the VG canon with his vingette in the GHotR. That would of course imply other parts of the game - including those 'Northmen' and the preexisting Celt-like culture - are also canon. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Oct 2017 19:34:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2017 : 19:36:18
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That changes things.
I'm not sure why we didn't come to that conclusion before - that the two weirdly-placed cultures (from the same far-off region) had arrived at different times? An over-use of Occam's Razor?
I'm sure I/we could put together a much neater story now, especially with all this 'primordial stuff' (and Abeir being another world) under our belts.
EDIT:
Funny how we must of decided on a direction, and then just kept running in that direction. We got us a bunch of Uber-wizards just to the north who were KNOWN to kidnap very large numbers of people from other realms and worlds, and we felt we needed to come up with reasons for weird cultures being there? The Northmen definitely came later, but we can say the others were transplanted Ffolk (except there may not have even BEEN Ffolk at the time of Imaskar), or they were people grabbed from another world (or even Abeir). Or we could just go with an intermittently malfunctioning gate left over from the Imakari.
Ffolk from Abeir... Celtic/Moonshae culture is very primal/elemental in nature (quite literally). What if the Earthmother was really a primordial (NOT Chauntea) who's faith is withering because she's been on Abeir? And what if the moonwells are her only 'conduits' to reach her followers? I know I am going FAR afield from the thread ATM, but it could tie it all together.
And borrowing from the wonderful Saga of Pliocene Exile once again, what if 'torcs' (collars) are actually a way of controlling slaves? I can see both the primordials and dragon-lords using something like that. Celtic culture evolved on Abeir! 
As an aside, it might be worth adapting the old C4 & C5 modules to Edenvale and/or Doegan. Not that they were so memorable, but they've never had a home (setting), and it saves us some work fleshing the place out. We even get a genealogy of kings out of the deal. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Oct 2017 08:21:44 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2017 : 06:00:44
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
I like the Arkaiun theory; it explains the dominant western/northern culture of Ulgarth rather well. Although it's early, Arkaiuns of Eltabranar invaded and raided Mulhorand and Unther in 202 DR, and the forces of Mulhorand wiped out the barbarian tribes of Ulgarth the same year. It suggests a connection of some kind, but I don't know enough about the Arkaiuns or Eltabranar to speculate.
As for the date of the fall of Medinat Muskawoon, just about all the history in Desert of Desolation is "1000 years ago", in the time of Martek and when the curse of Amun-Re began the desertification that caused the fall (although Medinat Muskawoon had a slow decay). Assuming the current era of the module is the mid–1300s DR, then this all happened in the mid-300s DR. That's bang on when the "outlaws" fled the Mulhorandi and came to Ulgarth, 348 DR.
Since Mulhorand isn't even mentioned in Desert of Desolation (though people of both Unther and the "Uttermost East" visited Medinat Muskawoon), AFAICT, it's difficult to reconcile the brief hints of Mulhorand's conquests in the Raurin and the events of DoD. But there the Egyptian-styled Amun-Re, Pharaoh of Bakar, relates "So it was that I made mighty and terrible war upon my neighbors, plundering their lands of wealth for my own passage. I did enter a contract with a great mage to work a mighty wonder, and, upon the sweat and blood of my people, I did build a theft-proof tomb." and "My people turned against me with bitter hatred. I not only robbed our borderlands but taxed grievously my own people, and so took from them their wealth. They rose up in anger, demanding their gold and precious gems, their lives and freedom." Then he cursed the land, wiping out many peoples. Now this sort of behaviour sounds exactly right for Mulhorandi expansionism and destruction of local tribes in the southeast.
So it looks like "Mulhorand" in the core-setting histories is not necessarily the Mulhorand Empire based in Skuld, but could sometimes be a Mulhorandi-settled kingdom (perhaps still a client or puppet of the empire). We have Bakar, under Pharaoh Amun-Re, and another unknown realm under a "desert pharaoh" "whose name is lost in antiquity" (the one who received the Star of Shah-Pelar). Amun-Re's tyranny over the region could well have driven people south into Ulgarth.
Ok, this makes this odd mix in Medinat Muskawoon make a lot more sense. So, it looks like they have a mix of Mulhorandi/Untheric and OTHER religions. Probably the city was a mixed bag of peoples, including Mulan, Semphari, Durpari, and Arkaiun racially... and perhaps socially they had adopted many of the "raiding" personality of the Arkaiun. Maybe the Mulhorandi chased the Arkaiun, and they went into the desert, and joined the citizens of Medinat Muskawoon for a generation or two. Maybe even Martek chased them out of Medinat Muskawoon (i.e. they fled before his ritual's completion), and they went south into Ulgarth. These people may have been some of the ones that actually settled said region. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2017 : 06:14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I'd always thought the ffolk of the Moonshaes had a very Celtic/Brythonic culture, not really a Finnish one.
Yeah, you're right, brain fart for a second. I knew Mielikki is Finnish and my brain crossed her with fairies. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2017 : 08:55:53
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I still haven't gotten back to the Taan/Utter east like I'd have liked, with historical maps and what-not. Sometimes we just need a good picture to explain something. I'm even considering a GIF map that slowly shows the changes to borders and terrain in the region. There were LOTS of 'states' in that region right after the fall of Imaskar - it was a huge empire, a lot like Rome, with outlying districts that became kingdoms in their own right later on. Imaskar itself was a 'melting pot' of cultures, not just from faerun, but from all over the multiverse (the batezu tea ceremony caught-on in a big way ). Regions that were already settled by pre-existing cultures would have just lapsed back into their old ways (mostly), but some areas - like Ulgarth (wasn't their another name for the place early on?) - probably only had some pict-like barbarans up in the high country and not much else, and folks who settled there during the time of Imaskar were probably a mixed-bag themselves. after centuries, they would have developed their own culture, with bits an pieces from all the ones that used to be separate there. Ulgarth and most of the Utter East is pretty inhospitable, with bad storms wracking the coast, nigh-impenetrable mountain walls to the east, Yakfolk and crazy-arse fanatics (mamluks) to the south, and some pretty crappy land for farming or naught-else along the eastern end of the Golden waters, on up into Imaskar proper, and there is very little 'flat land' (and almost no forest) that isn't swamp, or a plateau, or 'stoney wastes'. Ulgarth was close enough - and ON the Golden Waters - to have been somewhat inviting, and favored toadies were probably granted swaths of land there, but the Utter East itself? That would have been a place where the more sordid imaskari built 'hideaways' to do things they didn't want their fellows to know about, or hide some of their wealth and magic 'in case of an emergency' (so a place great for adventuring, but not so much for living in).
Then the Raurin (Plains of Purple Dust) gets nuked by a thermo-nuclear Re, destroying the existing river system, and changing weather patterns. It goes from tropical to sub-Saharran almost overnight, and the people living in the other two major portions of the basin (lower and eastern Raurin, later just 'Raurin' and the Desert of Desolation in the east) struggle to get the water they need to stay viable (hence the creation of the River Athis). Eventually, even their magical 'fix' fails and they disappear under the sand as well (Bakar, and others - there is a map in the GHotR). Years and years and years - centuries - with various states rising and falling, some short-lived, others still around, interacting and having affects on each other. Its really understandable why its so confusing - different 'countries' at the time probably all had their own maps with borders drawn in different spots - it was all very unreliable. So, I am going to post the list I made in the other thread here, just for reference -remember, a good chunk of these co-existed!
List of Imaskari Survivor-States
Still Around
Mulhorand
Unther
Chessenta (would have grown out of the two above)
Chondath (would have grown out of the two above)
Khazari - apparently, once the capital of Anok-Imaskar
Murghôm
Narfell (out of Narfell Empire - a Raumvari people)
Rashemen (out of fallen Raumathar, in the Taan region)
Ra-Khati (I would guess its a piece of Khazari that broke-away)
Semphar
Shou-Lung (out of Anok-Imaskar)
Sossal (a Raumvari people, out of fallen Raumathar)
Tu'Lung (out of 2nd Shou Empire)
Fallen Kingdoms
Anok-Imaskar - First empire of the Shou (The Anoki)
Bakar (sometimes known as the 'Raurindi' people)
Bhaluin (not much known - probably a piece of one of the others)
Guge - seems to have been a kingdom of half-Fey (Spiritfolk) for a time
Kalmyk (a mixture of barbarians; human Gur and some 'beastmen' - Hobgoblins? Ore-magi?)
Khati - appears to have been its own kingdom for a time during the 'Middle Kingdoms' period (became Ra-Khati, Khazari, and maybe Guge, post-collapse).
Limia - the eastern half of southern Imaskar - became Solon?
Narfel Empire (northern Imaskar, of mixed Imaskar/Gur origins)
Nemrut - the 'core' of the Imaskari Empire, where the Plains of Purple dust lie
Raumathar (out of the conquered native 'Gur' people of the northern Taan)
Raurin - the western half of southern Imaskar
Solon - Just one city now, but there are references to it once being a much larger realm
Suren - (from what I can tell, the 'human element' of the Kalmyk that broke-away)
Taanga - lands of the Taangan tribes (erroneously all called 'Tuigan' because of the war - tribes of various, usually mixed ethnicities that were all conquered and controlled by Imaskar)
Thommar - mention in DoD; likely once a part of a bigger province (see below)
Tsharoon - existed in 227 DR where the Quoya desert now is
Theoretical
Dathia - "the wild lands beyond the Unth Marches"
Gaelios Province ('Golden Waters') - the lands south of the Dustwall
Larang - Capital: Tempat Larang - would have encompassed the Larang Valleys as well.
Mulhor Province - Where Mulhorand now is
Sentaria - "Land of the Centaurs" - where Thay is now (may have not been a plateau back then)
Thazalhar is mentioned at least once in the context of it being a realm of it own
The Ravaged Coast - The Utter East, where a few 'less savory' Imaskari fled after the fall
Unth - where Unther now is/was
Other
Tsaparang Fortress - (in Guge) Builders, unknown (I theorizes an eastern branch of dark elves/drow)
Oh, and the Yehimals - which were once covered entirely by a glacier - began to melt. This created quite a bit of swamp land along the edge of the mountain range, but the rest of the place got just a little bit moister, and nicer. The ice is still melting, but its slowed, and their are only a few smaller glaciers left now. This 'global warmer' seems to have been far-reaching, because we had Vaasa and damara coming out from under the ice over the course of the same thousand years, and also the once fertile and moist Quoya became a desert (because eventually, the glaciers in nearby mountains had been depleted, and the water just stopped coming).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Oct 2017 09:13:29 |
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Ulgarth - data mining
