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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Oct 2017 : 03:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And just to try and steer the topic kind of back as well.... hmmmm, spelljaming Thayan colleges..... might be interesting to have portals from the floating enclave I'm figuring in orbit forporting students to another local tear of Selune for the express purpose of hurling magic in a safe environment. Picturing this one little asteroid full of blast marks.
I'd expect them to go for something further afield, myself... Maybe a random asteroid or something, at a Lagrange point or maybe in its own solitary orbit. Something like that, they don't have any neighbors to worry about accidently blasting, no one sticking noses into Thayan business, and there would be a far greater degree of autonomy and secrecy. It would also serve as a better port for their ships, for the same reasons. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2017 : 06:48:01
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Thayan illusion can be used to produce a "cloaking device". Thayan bombards, hurling missiles with "alchemical fire" instead of giff smokepowder, could (at least they would hope) be fired through openings in the crystal sphere at vessels still located within the volatile phlogiston. Perhaps they plan to blockade Realmspace, seize vessels (to build an interplanetary or interstellar armada, crewed by undead) or seize cargos (to make themselves and their nation richer). Perhaps they experiment with magical bindings and Red Magic tattooes on captured "organic" ships.
I imagine that if the Red Wizards are active in Realmspace then they could indeed be a potent and serious threat to everyone else. Except for their typical lack of unified focus, their own plots and schemes turning self-destructively inward. An alliance with some other species - neogis, giths, beholders, illithids - could benefit the "Redjammers" greatly. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2017 : 12:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Thayan illusion can be used to produce a "cloaking device". Thayan bombards, hurling missiles with "alchemical fire" instead of giff smokepowder, could (at least they would hope) be fired through openings in the crystal sphere at vessels still located within the volatile phlogiston. Perhaps they plan to blockade Realmspace, seize vessels (to build an interplanetary or interstellar armada, crewed by undead) or seize cargos (to make themselves and their nation richer). Perhaps they experiment with magical bindings and Red Magic tattooes on captured "organic" ships.
I imagine that if the Red Wizards are active in Realmspace then they could indeed be a potent and serious threat to everyone else. Except for their typical lack of unified focus, their own plots and schemes turning self-destructively inward. An alliance with some other species - neogis, giths, beholders, illithids - could benefit the "Redjammers" greatly.
I've personally got an alliance going in this, a secret one (though I've announced it here previously) with a secretive people, and their plans (prior to the spellplague that is) were to work against the other spelljamming cultures of Toril in secret, seize as many helms as they could, and thus become the preeminent spelljamming people of Toril (they had not even begun to consider other planetary issues, much less other crystal spheres or planes).... then the spellplague happened. As another spin on all this, the Zulkir involved wasn't necessarily keeping the other Zulkirs aware of her involvement with spelljamming, and with the aid of Samas Kul, was hiding the stealing of funds to build the handful of Quads (and in fact, some Zulkirs prior to the spellplague still didn't even know of its existence.... just because your an archmage shared ruler in a magocracy doesn't mean you know all the universe's secrets). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2017 : 16:15:04
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I hadn't actually considered a Thayan college IN space...
I would imagine Thayans in space would be received about as well as the Netherese were.
However, I've gotten another (post-Spellplague) idea in my head - a floating college. Not Necessarily Thayan (at least, not officially), just a 'College of Magic' built on an Earthmote. The beauty of that is that an adventure set at such a locale becomes of the 'use anywhere' variety (which is pretty-much how they meant all the 4e modules to be). A smaller earthmote could also be an excellent 'base' for PC's, if they could figure out how to steer it (sails?), but now I'm veering off-topic again. Imagine a base-camp you could just bring with you, like a combination 'Inn', stables, supply depot, etc.*
So to bring this back around to SJ-ing at least, what if Dwarven Citadels are actually built on Earth-motes? 
*EDIT:
On the other hand, I suppose a large enough SJ craft (or even a normal 'skyship') would make an excellent base as well. I would imagine you'd definitely need some sort of 'cloaking device' for it, because the first time the party went delving deep into a dungeon, someone would come along and steal the thing. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Oct 2017 16:35:37 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2017 : 17:06:00
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But, c'mon, Thayan great bombards firing alchemical fireballs at your vessel ... on top of all the usual magics a shipload of wizards could hurl. To my mind the Netherese would be significantly outgunned. So to my mind the Redjammers enjoy a potent advantage the Netherjammers never had.
(Take note of human scale in that photo. That is the 39-ton 35-inch Russian Tsar Pouchka, "King of Cannons", cast in 1586. Most bombards were smaller, the 7-ton 20-inch Mons Meg is somewhat typical.) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 07 Oct 2017 17:24:10 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2392 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2017 : 20:17:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
another local tear of Selune
I'd expect them to go for something further afield, myself... Maybe a random asteroid or something, at a Lagrange point
Aren't they?..
quote:
no one sticking noses into Thayan business, and there would be a far greater degree of autonomy and secrecy. It would also serve as a better port for their ships, for the same reasons.
One (or two, or...) of the Tears is close to "needle in the needle stack" place.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Thayan illusion can be used to produce a "cloaking device". Thayan bombards, hurling missiles with "alchemical fire" instead of giff smokepowder,
As much as catapults - as long as one can get enough of "mage shot" or helmseekers as such.
quote:
could (at least they would hope) be fired through openings in the crystal sphere at vessels still located within the volatile phlogiston. Perhaps they plan to blockade Realmspace,
You know that the crystal sphere radius is usually 2x that of the farthest orbit and Realmspace supposedly has 3200 portals opened at any time, right? And even if it wasn't, it would be still enormous. Blockading lots of points over such ranges would be a pipe-dream even if they had this many ships; Wa has 6 Tsunamis, EIN in the Triangle is what, 5-10 Armadas and 11-18 other ships per sphere?.. and the Grand Helm is much more expensive than what either uses. Also, blockade implies standing here, which would make disguise less useful once those on the inside find out what's going on.
It's much easier and cheaper to just drop a few helmseeker mines near a portal - assuming they can procure one and reverse-engineer the seeker enchantment.
Of course, those are moot points anyway, since there are always temporary portals opened by spell or device at an arbitrary point on the sphere - which is fairly common, both because the spheres are indeed enormous and people don't like having to run around while short on air or water, and also because pirate ambushes at the permanent passages do indeed happen.
quote:
seize vessels (to build an interplanetary or interstellar armada, crewed by undead) or
If you firebomb a vessel in phlogiston, there's a good chance hull and loot will be mostly ruined.
The slime grenades or old good skeleton ball mines are so much better.
quote:
I imagine that if the Red Wizards are active in Realmspace then they could indeed be a potent and serious threat to everyone else. Except for their typical lack of unified focus, their own plots and schemes turning self-destructively inward. An alliance with some other species - neogis, giths, beholders, illithids - could benefit the "Redjammers" greatly.
Those entities tend to be everyone's enemy already. Red Wizards' role would be what - fencing their loot and selling minor magic back?
Also, there's EIN, and they have a habit of trying to cull non-Elven upstarts without half as many reasons as Red Wizards would give them.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
firing alchemical fireballs at your vessel ... on top of all the usual magics a shipload of wizards could hurl. To my mind the Netherese would be significantly outgunned. So to my mind the Redjammers enjoy a potent advantage the Netherjammers never had.
In ship-to-ship action spellhurling is only good at point-blank range, unless the caster teleports back and forth. Which can be nasty, but ultimately not very efficient.
As to fire-bombs - they, bioweapons and "mage shot" are less than common, but not too rare either. It's an advantage to have a steady supply, but that's about it. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2017 : 01:15:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I hadn't actually considered a Thayan college IN space...
I would imagine Thayans in space would be received about as well as the Netherese were.
However, I've gotten another (post-Spellplague) idea in my head - a floating college. Not Necessarily Thayan (at least, not officially), just a 'College of Magic' built on an Earthmote. The beauty of that is that an adventure set at such a locale becomes of the 'use anywhere' variety (which is pretty-much how they meant all the 4e modules to be). A smaller earthmote could also be an excellent 'base' for PC's, if they could figure out how to steer it (sails?), but now I'm veering off-topic again. Imagine a base-camp you could just bring with you, like a combination 'Inn', stables, supply depot, etc.*
So to bring this back around to SJ-ing at least, what if Dwarven Citadels are actually built on Earth-motes?
*EDIT:
On the other hand, I suppose a large enough SJ craft (or even a normal 'skyship') would make an excellent base as well. I would imagine you'd definitely need some sort of 'cloaking device' for it, because the first time the party went delving deep into a dungeon, someone would come along and steal the thing.
Yep, this was one of my ideas as well when I was throwing out ideas a few years back before 5e was detailed. Before I settled on the "United Tharchs of Toril", I was discussing "the United Tharchs of the Shaar" and I had the Underchasm still in place but there were small Tharchs surrounding it with red wizards, but there were earthmotes that red wizards setup colleges on. They couldn't move them, but they were relatively secure places for wizards to learn at, and they forced isolation to ensure students were spending time studying, etc...
In fact, my tharch of Peleveran, I still want to have some earthmotes with it. One will be a small college. The other will be an earthmote with canals and water dropping from it, but the red wizards control where to send the water. I've got a couple ideas for the source(s) of this water, but one piece of it might generate a new river that then dumps down into the great rift, and then out through the underground river to the gorge of Peleverai to become the river Shaar that feeds to western shaar. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2017 : 01:32:25
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@Tbeholder
Most of the reasons you mention are exactly why my version of all this involves Mythrell'aa and hiding the red wizard fleet. The Quads of Thay are not meant for combat, but rather for avoiding combat, smuggling, and possibly spy work. They are essentially trying to turn Wa and Shou Lung into even more fervent enemies of one another, meanwhile trying to steal their helms in order to build up their own fleets (and planting evidence to blame others).
Now, that all was BEFORE the spellplague and BEFORE they transferred to Abeir (in my homebrew). Over the past hundred years, maybe their own studies of helms has allowed them to develop a new type of helm.... similar to a artifurnace... a titan helm, using portions of the dawn titans. They might now have a small handful of big ships like Ayrik describes with bombards, greek fire projectors, mage shot, etc... and maybe this is one way they've managed to hold onto their tharchs over in Maztica/Anchorome/Katashaka/Osse. Not sure if I like it, but I'm gonna play with the idea a bit.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2017 : 23:27:33
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
no one sticking noses into Thayan business, and there would be a far greater degree of autonomy and secrecy. It would also serve as a better port for their ships, for the same reasons.
One (or two, or...) of the Tears is close to "needle in the needle stack" place.
The problem with the Tears is that they are not isolated. You've got multiple inhabited Tears, and the Rock of Bral, all in one area that's going to see a lot of traffic coming and going. And all those neighbors and traffic means you've either got to seal yourself up in a rock and hope no one decides to land there, or you're going to be noticed sooner or later by someone -- perhaps several someones.
Picking a rock out in the middle of nowhere, on the other hand, means no neighbors, and if someone does decide to drop in unexpectedly, you blast them out of the sky and no one is the wiser.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2017 : 00:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
no one sticking noses into Thayan business, and there would be a far greater degree of autonomy and secrecy. It would also serve as a better port for their ships, for the same reasons.
One (or two, or...) of the Tears is close to "needle in the needle stack" place.
The problem with the Tears is that they are not isolated. You've got multiple inhabited Tears, and the Rock of Bral, all in one area that's going to see a lot of traffic coming and going. And all those neighbors and traffic means you've either got to seal yourself up in a rock and hope no one decides to land there, or you're going to be noticed sooner or later by someone -- perhaps several someones.
Picking a rock out in the middle of nowhere, on the other hand, means no neighbors, and if someone does decide to drop in unexpectedly, you blast them out of the sky and no one is the wiser.
Hmmm, makes me think..... Tear of Selune, portal, large hollowed out cave on the interior with no exterior openings.... decanter of endless water, exported underdark fungi, something to recycle the air. Granted not foolproof, but might make for an interesting farming community, along with a mining community that continues to excavate the rock and ore. In fact, doesn't really need to be a "portal" as much as a teleportation circle endpoint, especially if you aren't interested in giving an easy means of escape.
Along these same lines, similar asteroid, fill it with water, cave fish, underwater plants, and some kind of artificial magical light. Periodically you fish all the big fish out, then fill it with new fingerlings. You could even use the place to dump some of your refuse to decompose and help the habitat. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Spelljammer - Quad of Thay sources
