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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
659 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  19:56:21  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Furifax was once one of Gilgeams attendants (and presumably a male courtesan), i doubt he would be ugly as a half orc, most likely he would be a near perfect male specimen



Furifax Solo and not a half-orc, but a bugbear named Chewy (to avoid copyright).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 04 Sep 2017 19:56:54
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14037 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  20:35:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nah, an Alaghi is more FR-appropriate.

Plus an Alaghi has the right temperament.

Don't forget the family of Ormyr that controls all the elicit activities in The Raurin - The Shack (lead by Jaffi the Shack).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Sep 2017 07:34:55
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3468 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2017 :  13:21:21  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finished my broad outline of Unther, need to work on the specifics now.

Made the law of unther be completely class based. You cannot commit a crime against a slave (they have no rights) nor will a man if lesser station accuse someone of higher station (because they will never win). Gil-Geamesq has the right to override any law or punishment but otherwise all government is left to his church and its Ensi.

Just the specifics to work on now like the organisations (the enclave, the church of the All Father, the church of TiaMa'at, the church of Ish-Tarri, the church of Ram-Manu), the settlements, the interesting places and ruins (most of which will have to be made up I think).

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3468 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2017 :  20:22:11  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay I need some help.

What book details the core (non FR) lore on Tiamat's holdings in the Wyrmbones (or its core world approximation).


Also I'm pretty sure Calimshan (Shoon) had settlements in the Shaar and lost them all after demon summonings and other incidents, but I can't remember the details or where those settlements actually were located. Could someone pretty please point out their location to me (modern nation/realm and settlement name please).


Working on TiaMa'at at the moment and her cults

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  07:51:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Red Hand of Doom was the 3e-era module dealing with that region (Elsir Vale, which is Channath Vale in FR). Pt.5 (the finale) actually takes place IN The Fane of Tiamat.

Scales of War was the 4e AP, which ran through Dungeon #156 - #175. I am not sure how much is there on The Fane - the final battle in that AP is in her Godly Domain (IIRC). I'd have to go through the issues individually to see if any cover the Fane.

Funny - the 3e adventure is very low-key, despite being a war - the PCs don't have to be uber powerful, they just have to be one step ahead of their enemies (everything is on a time-table in that adventure - NO SIDE QUESTS!) 'Normal' people can pull it off.

The 4e one sends you to battle gods, and you even hangout with Bahamut, and you need to be level 30 just to go to Tiamat's realm (where you presumably kick her arse). To be fair, it is an AP, though, so it takes you through all the levels.

I just can't help noticing the different approaches between the two editions.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3468 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  08:43:23  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Everything since the end of 3e has been god A did this, god B did that, so and so killed god C.
I hate it, it makes me cry inside and is the primary reason why im so anti deity. It is lazy storytelling at its worst.
When you cant think of a reason then a god did it. So people at WoTC havent been able to think of a reason or original idea in over 2 editions.


Anyway, rant over. Back to unther musings.


I am only looking for a brief description and some idea of its original purpose then i will twist it to my own version.

Im thinking the wyrmbones became the primary base of TiaMa'at against Unther. She eventually abandoned it when the Shoon Imperium arrived in the Shaar circa 108 DR and eventually went to war with Unther in the central Shaar around 420 DR (im calling it the war of broken wheels or splintered axles, cant decide which).


Then she set up a base in Chessenta but her cult was destroyed in conflict with the cult of the dragon 971 DR and she fled again and was then driven mad in 1018 DR with the dracorage. She stated insane until 1346 DR when she was successfully summoned in Firetrees in Unther.



Im thinking TiaMa'at came into possession of one of the Imaskarcana. From it she learned a lot more about magic and gave herself the ability to take dragon form permanently. She also created brown dragons and managed to craft 5 similar masks based on the imaskarcana (which she altered to look like a dragon head).
These 5 dragon masks of various colours im going to use as a nod to the deus ex machina artefacts in the Rise of Tiamat adventure for 5e (i know its a different god but i doubt anyone would realise).


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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
659 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  08:45:53  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Red Hand of Doom was the 3e-era module dealing with that region (Elsir Vale, which is Channath Vale in FR). Pt.5 (the finale) actually takes place IN The Fane of Tiamat.

Scales of War was the 4e AP, which ran through Dungeon #156 - #175. I am not sure how much is there on The Fane - the final battle in that AP is in her Godly Domain (IIRC). I'd have to go through the issues individually to see if any cover the Fane.

Funny - the 3e adventure is very low-key, despite being a war - the PCs don't have to be uber powerful, they just have to be one step ahead of their enemies (everything is on a time-table in that adventure - NO SIDE QUESTS!) 'Normal' people can pull it off.

The 4e one sends you to battle gods, and you even hangout with Bahamut, and you need to be level 30 just to go to Tiamat's realm (where you presumably kick her arse). To be fair, it is an AP, though, so it takes you through all the levels.

I just can't help noticing the different approaches between the two editions.



The Fane is never touched in 4e. The Scales of War AP retconns Elsir Vale to be part of the Nentir Vale world (It was part of the Nerathi Empire) and the story happens 25 years after the events of Red Hand of Doom.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14037 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  18:01:44  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And it just so happens to look IDENTICAL to Channath Vale in the Forgotten Realms (3e map)?

On the other hand, we can use that - what if the Channath Vale got replaced with Elsir Vale in 3e? A piece of 'another world' that got swapped-in during the magical chaos of the ToT? (and thanks to Ao's "Forget everything" uber-spell, no-one seems to notice). Then during the Sundering 2.0, it 'goes home', and we get Channath Vale back.

It sounds hokey (at first), but think about it - that particular region was one of the places where things got 'twisted' the worst by the 3e-era maps. rivers changed direction, mountains/hills came and went, and we even lost Shaareach. Even though we know from a meta-gaming perspective thats not what happened, its easy enough for us to say now that that is what happened, and now we have our 'original vale' back, intact. That alleviates all the weirdness with two worlds having the identical terrain (because it IS the same region - it was never in more than one place at the same time).

But even if thats the case, there is no reason that FR wouldn't have its own 'Fane of Tiamat' - there may even be some sort of weird, quantum resonance going on, so that a God that has a powerful temple on one world may desire to build another temple in the same spot on another (so if one were to 'plane shift', you'd still be in her temple, just on another world).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Sep 2017 18:33:02
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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3468 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  18:13:34  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One of the big premises of my rewrite is that the multiverse all originates from a single universe that it keeps trying to recreate and keeps failing.

So dragons appear, evolve, or are created on each world in an attempt to mirror the original. Orcs are the same, so are every other monster and race.
Gods are the same. All the worlds might be connected by the same cosmology but it is infinite so tyr on one world isnt necessarily tyr on the other (although it could be) they each transpire on their own world trying to recreate what happened in the original.

Thats why we have so much of the same everywherw, not througj cross polination but because the universe had a plan (like hitchhikers guide to the galaxy), when the vortex of chaos broke that plan the universe tried to continue as best it could in its fractured state.

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
659 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  18:18:12  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And it just so happens to look IDENTICAL to Channath Vale in the Forgotten Realms (3e map)?


They just imported the place as it was in Red Hand of Doom. Just changed the lore to fit the Nerath backstory and located it "to the south of the region known as the Nentir Vale", changed a few gods (Olidammara for Avandra, Nerull for the Raven Queen). And voila, Elsir Vale was part of Nerath.

It was the philosophy of the Nentir Vale world. You could import/export whatever, and all fit, because it was lore-light (at first, at least).

As for your idea... it seems interesting. Perhaps the new cultures in the place will be interesting.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3468 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  21:44:26  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My initial idea for the history of TiaMa'at








TiaMa’at


TiaMa’at; known as the Dark Lady, the Dark Sorceress, the Queen of Chaos, and the Nemesis of the Gods, is the Untheric goddess of Chaos, Rebellion, Dark Magic, and Dragons.

Considered a Demi God at best by most sages of all things divine, TiaMa’at has long been absent from Unther, although whispers about her activities and defiance against the rest of the Untheric pantheon never ceased completely.

Recently rumours have begun to resurface that TiaMa’at has returned to Unther to finish her fight against the God King.

Mythology

The origins of TiaMa’at are claimed by her clergy to begin when the Godship of Unther arrived and delivered the god-kings to Faerun. It is believed that the Godship brought a variety of god-kings and monsters to Faerun, but it is unclear whether TiaMa’at was one of them.

Legends held by those with Turami ancestry in eastern Chondath and Mulhorand speak of a woman named Tlaa (this translates into sorceress in Chondathan) who lay with dragons and mastered their power. The dark skin of the Turami and her evil (from the viewpoint of the god-kings of Unther) could be the origin of the name TiaMa’at (meaning dark or evil one) and her monikar The Dark Sorceress.

Regardless of her origins, TiaMa’at has fought against the god-kings of Unther since the inception of that nation. Her early efforts involved rallying the native Turami people against the invading Untheri and their god-kings. When those efforts failed and the Turami were eradicated or enslaved in Unther and Akanu by the god-kings and their armies, TiaMa’at started fomenting insurrection among their subjects.



History

The history of TiaMa’at begins in -2087 DR when the Mulan people and their god-kings arrive on the southern shore of the Alamber Sea and begin slaughtering the native Turami that were already living there. The battles between Mulan and Turami were one sided except for a single incident somewhere north of the present site of Unthalass where the god-king Amar-Du’uk was nearly slain and his elite Masate were burned to ashes by a fiery conflagration of immense size.

After the loss of her family, her people, and her homeland, TiaMa’at wandered the outskirts of the Mulan lands looking for anything that would help her destroy the invaders. It took her almost a century of wandering the ruined remnants of the Imaskari Empire before she found her desire.

With powerful magic in hand TiaMa’at managed to garner an alliance with a family of blue dragons from the Raurin Desert (sealed by mating with the Suzerain she helped to install). These were the first of her dragon allies that she used against the growing Empires of Unther, Akanu, and even Mulhorand (all Mulan are guilty in her eyes, its just that some Mulan are more guilty than others and deserve to be destroyed first), the dragons wreaked havoc on the fledgling empires and prompted the Mulan to purge their lands of all draconic presence.

With her dragon allies defeated, TiaMa’at changed tactics and started to work against the Mulan from within their own Empires. She used her magic to awe the weak and oppressed into following her (having much success among the slaves) and founded a number of cults spread throughout Unther and Akanu. Slowly she bided her time waiting for the right moment to strike.

That moment came in -1076 DR when a large portal opened on the plateau of what is now Thay and disgorged hundreds of thousands of orcs into Mulhorand’s most northern province. Unther and Akanu mobilised their armies to aid the kindred Empire of Mulhorand (and hopefully recover their own territories lost to the orcs) and sailed their forces across the Alamber Sea while Mulhorand’s armies marched north.

TiaMa’at and her cultists were well placed among the slave regiments who broke ranks at inopportune moments and spread poison and disease to slow the advance of Unther and Akanu’s armies and helped the orcs win some key battles and destroy a few of the more minor god-kings. TiaMa’ats greatest achievement however was in the deciding battle of the Orcgate Wars campaign when the forces of the Mulan cornered the majority of orc forces between escarpments. As the god-kings engaged the orcs and their summoned Avatars in battle TiaMa’at finally struck against the Mulan from behind, her surprise attack divided the Mulan and allowed the orcs to cut off Re (the ruler of Mulhorand) from his allies while Gruumsh delivered the killing blow. Meanwhile TiaMa’at pounced on Amar-Du’uk and Gil-Geamesq (who were already fighting Avatars of the orc gods) while in dragon form and succeeded in seriously wounding Gil-Geamesq, and incinerating Amar-Du’uk as he drove his spear into her heart.

Thankfully TiaMa’at had prepared for the eventuality of her death. Her lifeforce was splintered among three chosen vessels that were compelled to seek the others out and consume them. After decades of cat and mouse games the three dragons were finally one and TiaMa’at was reborn as a three headed dragon.

In her absence, TiaMa’at’s cult was eradicated in Unther and Akanu, and TiaMa’at retreated to her last and greatest stronghold; The Fane of Tiamat in the Shaar. From here she directed her remaining cultists to re-establish cells in Akanu which was undergoing a period of turmoil as Unther and Akanu merged to become just Unther, with Gil-Geamesq as the God-King of both Empire (E-Nlil having seemingly abandoned his people and empire). This met with some success as Gil-Geamesq all but abandoned Akanu and its people and then taxed them into poverty as he descended slowly into tyranny and madness.

Her guerrilla war met with mixed successes over the coming millennia as an alliance with demon cults from the south weakened Unther with another failed invasion of that land by barbarian tribes. She was forced to abandon her stronghold in the Shaar when the Shoon Imperium and the Untheri Empire went to war over territories in the Landrise (which ultimately both empires failed to secure and resulted in the decline and loss of all territories in the Shaar). Her cult cells in Akanu (now rapidly becoming Chessenta) were destroyed in a conflict with a potential ally; the Cult of the Dragon. Finally in 1018 DR, TiaMa’at (in her dragon form) was driven mad by the King Killer Star (her human mind was unable to cope with the baleful influence, making her permanently mad).

It took centuries before TiaMa’at recovered her mind thanks to a resurgence in her following in Unther. The cult cell in Firetrees summoned TiaMa’at in her human form and snapped her out of dragon form and the madness that held her.

TiaMa’at has since spent her time hiding, rebuilding her power bases, and waiting for the time to strike. That time is rapidly approaching


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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3468 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  12:42:17  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looking for some ideas on personal items (magic) that TiaMa'at owns (they become relics after her death in the ToT event i will detail later, but for the time being they are things she wears and uses).

1 - a robe made of dragon scales that allows her to take dragon form 3/day (this power hasnt been needed since her death during the orcgate wars), and that also makes her resistant to various elements (breathweapons - fire, cold, lightning).
Not sure on a name, maybe Dragonskin.

2 - a spear with a haft of dragon bone and a point made from a large dragon tooth. Very good at piercing armour and can summon the wearers of the 3 rings of tiamat to her side. No name for this.


Any others. Im not looking for stat boosters, more personal items that have meaning to her that she enhanced or found to aid her.


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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  21:05:57  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My take on the fane of tiamat


The Fane of Tiamat:The Fane of TiaMa’at is an ancient fortress hidden inside the Wyrmbones, constructed by TiaMa’at into the very rock of the mountains using her magical skill. The entrance to the Fane is via a sheltered valley and a hidden trail that leads up into the mountains where three huge dragon skulls extend on long necks out of an entrance into the mountain (one green to the left, one blue to the right, and one red hovering over).
Inside, the passageways and chambers are lined with dragon bones (usually ribs) from hundreds of dragons of enormous size that litter the Wyrmbones and give the mountain range it’s name.
The Fane was abandoned by TiaMa’at over a millennia past in order to preserve its secrecy in the face of increased activity in the region from Unther and the Shoon Imperium. She never returned to the Fane and it is now rumoured to be inhabited by goblinoids of all kinds.




Plus an attempt at one of her magic items using my own rule system (which is loosely based on d20 but prices an item based on each property and the parameters of that property so multiple properties can be added to a single item with different number of uses and ranges and activation modes. It makes items more expensive but I want magic to be much less common and much more personal.

Temmasku (Dragon’s Skin): This robe is made of dragon scales of many colours. The larger scales cover the back and front portions while tiny dragon scales are used to make up the more mobile areas of the robe such as the arms, sides, and hood. The effect is a shimmering robe that makes TiaMa’at resemble a reptilian humanoid.

This robe grants the wearer a +4 Magic bonus to Damage Resistance against Acid, Cold, Electricty, and Fire damage.

Enhancement Level: +4

Magical Properties: Energy Resistance (x4) Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire; Uses (Permanent); Activation (Passive); Target (Wielder): Cost 328,000 gp

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Brimstone
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Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  21:18:55  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IIRC Richard Baker said that Red Hand of Doom was originally going to be set in The Realms, then someone above him decided against it.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  21:40:56  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i checked out the maps after markustay mentioned it and its a near perfect fit. Plus i was looking for a base for tiamaat so im stealing a little bit

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 08 Sep 2017 :  16:53:34  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So apparently an influx of wizards from the shoon lands caused the rebellion of the wizards reach (and then chessenta).

I also noticed an awful lot of untheric wizards are abroard in faerun from 0 dr onwards. There were 2 or three in Athalantar. The Black Flame Brotherhood moved on sometime before that.

I'm thinking that Gil-Geamesq drove away the wizards (he was probably afraid of their power after TiaMa'at and the brotherhood etc its a power he can never understand). They flee to the four corners of Faerun and take their magic (and a shield with a devil trapped inside) with them.
Meanwhile Gil-Geamesq ignores Akanu more and more in favour of Unther - taxing it into the ground to fund his wars and heroic journeys. Wizards from Shoon begin fleeing their own troubles in that Empire make their way to Akanu and the Wizard's Reach which eventually leads to the rebellion of the Wizard's Reach. Then when Chessenta revolts the Wizard's Reach help them against Unther.

Or something like that


Also interesting that a crusading order of Myrkul was present in the Shaar not long after the fall of Netheril. By that time Myrkul may not have even become a true god (being only a demi-god fuelled by the power he stole from other demi-gods and powerful beings). So where did the crusaders that fought the everlasting worm and founded Eltabrannar come from. I'm thinking they were part of Myrkul's fan club from Murghom. THey must have been exiled along with Myrkul and ended up in the Shaar where they bargained with a demon lord for power to take their revenge on Mulhorand (who really owned Murghom at the time) for exiling them and their liege lord.


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Edited by - dazzlerdal on 08 Sep 2017 19:29:48
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 15 Sep 2017 :  12:05:56  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Started on an organisation which im calling the cult of the queen of chaos which is basically the church of tiama'at but isnt organised enough to be a church and is more focused around destroying Gil-Geamesq than worshipping TiaMa'at.

It was founded in the last century by cultists originally driven from chessenta following the disastrous turf war with the cult of the dragon around 1024 dr i think.

It succeeded in summoning tiamaat in 1346 and restoring her sanity and tiamaat has ruled the cult secretly since that date ( but through tiglath who communicates closely with and represents tiamaat publicly).

The main base of the cult is in niz'jaree (firetrees) under the settlement in a network of large underground tunnels known as the catacombs of the sleeping wyrm (legend has it that a huge serpent lives in the tunnels and sometimes emerges aboveground through the sewers to devour people).

The cult has a very loose organisation. It is led by Tiglath "the Scaled One" who commands the Dark Scaly Ones that command each cult cell and the Scaly Ones that work in the cells. Members are almost always slaves and commoners as they hate gil geamesq the most.

A few relics include

The Wyrmbone Throne - lost for centuries, last seen in the wyrmbone mountains

The rings of tiamaat. Rings that vastly empower the user but are secretly used to reincarnate tiamaat.

The dragon masks. Magic masks that conceal the wearers identity.

The mask of tiamaat. Tiamaats mask that was used to create the dragon masks. Believed to be one of the imaskarcana. Lost during the orcgate wars

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 19 Sep 2017 :  10:44:20  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Detailed the relics for the Cult of the Queen of Chaos. Now to work on the important NPCs and important sites

I've only alluded to TiaMa'at's mask being one of the Imaskarcana rather than outright state it. Hints include being able to converse with the mask and having to speak Roushoum to do so and in doing so being able to learn many secrets of transmutation magic.
The mask is currently lost following TiaMa'at's death during the Orcgate Wars (she was wearing it), which means it could have been carried off by the orcs, the Mulhorandi, the Narfelli, the Raumathari, or just some battlefield scavengers. Or it could still be hidden in Thay where the battle was fought (I imagined the final battles being held between the Thayan and Surague escarpments - the orcs got trapped between mountains and the lake and were slaughtered while TiaMa'at and her forces sneak attacked the god-kings.

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  19:15:47  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found the extent of the untheric empire, it occupied parts of estagund and dambrath according to the quote i found and forgot the source.

Also found a nice bit about gargauth which states he is interested in imaskari ruins, supposedly trying to find info about the planar barrier so he can use it to steal power from gods. I can twist that to help him escape the shield in which he is still trapped.

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Markustay
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Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  19:56:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, both empires were once MUCH vaster than they were when 1e started. I believe Mulhorand extended all the way down into the Golden Waters (there is an ancient trade-road there that they stop using the last few centuries before 4e, probably because of the rise of Veldorn, which itself is probably because of their own failing military might).

I would even say that it was Untheric Mulan who first started settling Jhaamdath (if you don't want to go with my theoretical 'Dathites', which were really ancient Romans/Greeks). So Unther would have encompassed most of the territory to the south, and to the west, up to the borders of Calimshan (around the Lake of Steam - the beholders probably made an effective 'buffer' between the two). They probably stopped at the 'wall' around Halruaa as well (I'm thinking their 'gods' would have warned them there was 'buried evil' in the vicinity).

As much as Mulhorand hates Imaskar, its almost as if they were trying to become them, what with them gobbling-up so many 'survivor states' (including Unther itself... almost).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  20:19:52  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well thankfully I've broken up Unther into two different empires. The western half conquered the eastern part of Jhaamdath as far as Inixrien (its in GHoTR) but then lost the territory during the Orcgate Wars and subsequently the entire empire of Akanu was absorbed into Unther as the two empires merged (although it was ignored and neglected and eventually taxed into rebellion).

The conquest of the Central and Eastern Shaar appears to either happen twice (and it gets conquered by Eltabranar in between) or it is a really late conquest that Unther just cannot hold onto (its conquered 211 DR and lost by 428 DR in a war with the Shoon). Not sure which one I'm going to go with to be honest but I'm leaning towards a late conquest. Enlil's Unther doesn't seem like the expansionist kind but Gil-Geamesq's Unther does.



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Markustay
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Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  21:20:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To be honest, I'm a pretty big RW history buff, and empires had a habit of expanding, dying back, and then expanding again later, sometimes several times (and occasionally with slight name changes). You get one weak ruler, and the 'councilors' (greedy/ambitious courtiers) are so busy robbing the nation blind they allow foreigners to take-back a lot of conquered territory, and then a new leader emerges later (sometimes a descendant of the last strong leader, but usually there is a military coup) and re-takes all that stuff again.

Personally, I think its far more realistic to spin it that they gobbled-up more than they could hold onto, then got pushed back, and then re-conquered some stuff. Especially in a fantasy setting like FR - one guy can make all the difference.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  21:39:57  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I intend on the Unther Empire settling Peleveran and some of the Central Shaar quite early on. That settlement will of course voluntarily join Eltabranar but it means that the Untheric Wizards are the creator's of Gargauth's hidden shield (although Gargauth instructed them to do so) - round shield seems very Old Empires. It was an item he could possess and use to project himself through to ultimately help engineer his escape (which didn't work properly because he is now stuck in the shield). I'm thinking the shield works a bit like that crystal from diablo 2, it gradually turns the possessor into something that looks, acts, and thinks like Gargauth (but is not Gargauth), which is why we have a Gargoth haunting the realms in early DR (destroyed the inn in Tunlands in a fight with Harpers).



Just finished work on some NPCs - Tiglath, Shudu-Ab, and Kedrak Gilbane. Going to be working on a few more members of the Council of Scales (leadership of the cult of tiama'at).
Then I will details the Serpent Guard.

Also found out about a group of Dark Elves that worship a Shar/Lolth hybrid heresy. They act as drug runners and assassins in Unther and Mulhorand.

And I think I figured out how Hadryllis got back to the Witches of Rashemen after Mulhorand used it to bind Eltab to Thaymount. It would seem pirates attacked Skuld and destroyed the docks (an attack paid for by Thay) and made off with the Beacon of Light. I see no reason why those same pirates couldn't also have attacked Sultim and stolen Hadryllis. Pirates being pirates there is then lots of fighting and selling of plunder and eventually the witches get back their sword.

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