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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2017 :  21:33:46  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Added a few new events to Unther's history. Based on canon but given a date and some after effects.

-1961 DR: Dalath is founded and immediately destroyed by the Ash Dragon. The Ash Dragon spends the next year rampaging throughout Unther even disrupting a battle between the forces of Unther and Mulhorand along the River of Swords.
-1960 DR to -1898 DR: The Dragon Purges of Unther. Amar-Du'uk and Ass-Uraqn lead the forces of Unther in a purge against all the dragon lords dwelling within Unther's borders. The purges begin with Amar-Du'uk slaying the Ash Dragon in an aerial battle above the Black Ash Plains while the legions of Unther battle dwarven warriors on the ground below.


This is all part of TiaMa'at's revenge for Unther's godkings slaying her family. She sought out dragon lords and stirred them to activity with tales of the godking's prowess and riches and how they came to take their lands from them.
She spent centuries experimenting on them (and herself) until she could take dragon form. She lay with dragons, had a number of children, and even managed to sway a family of blue dragons to her cause (which then dominated the other blue dragons in the region - exiling those who would not submit such as Maladraedior).
In short the dragons wreak havoc against Unther for over half a century before the god-kings slay or enslave them all.
I'm thinking even a few god-king's of Unther may perish in the conflict (particularly when the blue dragon flight mobilises).

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2017 :  10:33:04  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So im thinking about life and society in unther.

Im thinking it should be all about the god kings.

If you are not related to a godking (and therefore nobility) then you are worthless.

Only nobility can own land, have slaves, earn money and have possessions because all of unther belongs to the god kings.

So we have three tiers of people.

The nobles, those related to the god kings. They own all the land in unther and all the wealth and most of the slaves. All the opportunities in life are easy for them. However Gil-Geamesq is the only real ruler so the House of Gil is the most powerful and if they want to bring down another noble it takes only a whisper. Gil-Geamesq is fickle and he kills on a whim including his own house.

Then we have the freeholders. These families claim a descent from the godkings through a bastard scion (usually with a parent). They can rent land and slaves from the nobility and can earn money and own possessions.

Last is the slaves. They have no rights. They are bought, and usually worked to death.


In the grey areas there is the no-men. People born from escaped slaves or those granted freedom by Gil-Geamesq for being great gladiators or generals. Their children are neither slaves nor noble. They have no rights but are not slaves (unless they break laws or offend nobles).

There is a way for some social mobility. Anyone can join the army, so some escaped slaves have done so. If you survive 30 years in the army then you become a freeholder of sorts.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2017 :  18:01:52  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Latest thought is the enclave.

Who are they, what are their origins, where is their base and why can nobody find it.

My initial thoughts is that they are an amalgam of wizards that Gil-Geamesq outlawed in unther (after the brotherhood of black flame and wizards reach rebellion the wizards had proved themselves too dangerous to control).

Their base is actually an extra dimensional space, and imaskari portal nexus (all portals in an area lead to the space where people can then travel through other portals to the desired destination (if they have the right keys).
So the enclave has access to all imaskari portals in unther that are still operating (and they can block up portals to stop them from working for portals they no longer control on the other side).

Im thinking the group was actually infiltrated by imaskari descendants hiding in Ulgarth that are using the group to collect old imaskari magic

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  08:49:45  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Added a bit of detail to the rebellion from Imaskar.

I figure the godkings travelled all the way to Toril in these magnificent spaceships (the journey wasnt smooth and some people died along the way).
If it was me, i wouldnt leave these ships in a mountain range far to the north.

So i have a new event.
Battle of the Whirling Sands.
The mulan godkings launch a surprise attack on the capital of imaskar and kill lord artificer yuvaraj using the two spaceships to flatten the capital city.

Of course the ships are badly damaged and after the battle as imaskar begins to collapse and its provinces revolt, the godkings flee south with their limping spaceships in tow.

Mulhorand buries its spaceship where it builds its new capital.

Unther drags the ship across the Alamber. The ship finally loses power on an island which is thereafter named the ship of the gods.

Unther then goes on a slaughterfest of native turami before founding the capital of unther.


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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  10:10:03  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your site asks me to login. Is necessary to sign up to view stuff?

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 22 Aug 2017 10:16:16
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2017 :  10:36:19  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have no idea to be honest, its a wordpress site so it might be required to login to view any wordpress site didnt know about that limitation, oh well.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2017 :  07:10:55  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New words.

Ien - meaning lord
War'Lur - meaning slave.


Also it would seem that at its height Unther had cities in the eastern shaar, now all ruined and its roads vanished. I wonder if peleveran could have been owned by Unther once (maybe they built it, maybe they conquered it from the dwarves or found it empty - gargauth's legend where he destroyed a dwarven city would be ironic if he ended up imprisoned beneath it.

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Wodwulf Seaxaning
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  01:30:06  Show Profile  Send Wodwulf Seaxaning an AOL message Send Wodwulf Seaxaning a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very nice dazzlerdal - I plan to home-brew version on Grey Box FR campaign setting Old Empires region.I'll likely go in a completely different direction using Grey Box to be a foundation to build from & ignoring the post Grey Box Old Empires Near East flavor.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  05:51:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Also it would seem that at its height Unther had cities in the eastern shaar, now all ruined and its roads vanished. I wonder if peleveran could have been owned by Unther once (maybe they built it, maybe they conquered it from the dwarves or found it empty - gargauth's legend where he destroyed a dwarven city would be ironic if he ended up imprisoned beneath it.

Its canon, to some degree...
quote:
Pg.125, FRCS Revised (2e)
Unther: As with Mulhorand, the other living "dead kingdom", the wreckage of Unther's empire can be seen throughout Chessenta and the Eastern Shaar. It left more temples than wonders, some of which have been turned to other tasks today.

Coupled with...
quote:
Pg.128, FRCS Revised (2)
The Shaar is a most effective barrier between the Heartlands and the Shining South, effective through its own emptiness. The Shaar is dominated by miles upon miles of thick grassland, and peopled only by nomads, herdsmen, and raiders. Yet, strange temples and abandoned shrines to lost gods dot the lands, and some of the wanderers encountered wield great mystical powers.


*I didn't feel like looking for a 3rd (and possibly 4th) quote, but it is also canon that the dwarves (of the Shaar) HATE Unther - they have had lots of hostile interaction in the Shaar (which is also why I believe the Dwarves had at one time had a MUCH more extensive surface-presence). For Unther's part, dwarves are still unwelcome there (so are elves, for different reasons). In fact, the whole of the Old Empires seem to very much dislike demihumans. Humanoids, however, they don't seem to have a problem with. Go figure.


I just happened to be reading those sections earlier today. Its been so long since I've read through any of it I've forgotten quite a lot. I was actually trying to find out as much info as I could on Akanul and the Akanamere. Unther definitely had 'holdings' in the Shar, and Calimshan (which is just as old as those empires) was also pushing into the Shar from the other direction (I believe they dominated the Channath Vale {Elsir Vale} region for a time). Not sure if some of that was in the Calimshan or LoI books (a boxed set and two separate books), or if some of it was in Serpent Kingdoms, or both. In the Unther/Old Empires thread someone was doing back on the WotC boards, they assumed there was a Calimshan/Unther war at some point, but it was more of a 'cold war' with only a few actual battles (Unther was waning when Calimshan was waxing IIRC, although both are 'cyclic').

Its also interesting to note that if you wanted to consider any of the Elsir Vale material canon for the Channath Vale, there is a preponderance of half-dragons in the region. And not just human halves - all sorts, like elves, dwarves, goblinoids, I think even a half-lizardman one, IIRC. the 'Fane of Tiamat' would be in the Wyrmbones there (renamed the Wyrmsmoke Mtns. in the EV material). Tiamat seems to have a fondness for The Shaar... which is funny, because Shar has a connection to The Shaar (I doubt its coincidence, but I also am not saying they are the same being - more likely Tiamat is trying to tap-into or find whatever it is Shar lost down there... herself?)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Aug 2017 06:01:34
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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  07:05:05  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some nice quotes, cheers Markus.

My TiaMa'at is actually a human sorceress who hid among the dragons and learned alot about them. I have had her hiding in the shaar for millennia so a large fortress in the wyrmbones seems like a bloody good idea.

Also about peleveran. I doubt unther or the dwarves could have created that huge pit/entity trapping prison at its centre, but i know of a racial group that has an ancient association with gargauth and that has created powerful planar creature traps (way up north in narfell). Mayhaps the dwarves conquered this place from them and stood guard for a long time before the bonds weakened enough for gargauth to destroy them.


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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  07:27:58  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh and thankyou for the kind words wodwulf, feel free to post your own ideas or steal mine. I personally dont mind the similarities between the old empires and real life, if you look closely there arent really that many similarities. Ive changed a few names and come up with in game historical events for things so to me that makes them realmsian enough (the animal headed mulhorandi gods for instance are like that because of an invasion of nomads from the hordelands that brought with them animal worship).


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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  13:47:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Also it would seem that at its height Unther had cities in the eastern shaar, now all ruined and its roads vanished. I wonder if peleveran could have been owned by Unther once (maybe they built it, maybe they conquered it from the dwarves or found it empty - gargauth's legend where he destroyed a dwarven city would be ironic if he ended up imprisoned beneath it.

Its canon, to some degree...
quote:
Pg.125, FRCS Revised (2e)
Unther: As with Mulhorand, the other living "dead kingdom", the wreckage of Unther's empire can be seen throughout Chessenta and the Eastern Shaar. It left more temples than wonders, some of which have been turned to other tasks today.

Coupled with...
quote:
Pg.128, FRCS Revised (2)
The Shaar is a most effective barrier between the Heartlands and the Shining South, effective through its own emptiness. The Shaar is dominated by miles upon miles of thick grassland, and peopled only by nomads, herdsmen, and raiders. Yet, strange temples and abandoned shrines to lost gods dot the lands, and some of the wanderers encountered wield great mystical powers.


*I didn't feel like looking for a 3rd (and possibly 4th) quote, but it is also canon that the dwarves (of the Shaar) HATE Unther - they have had lots of hostile interaction in the Shaar (which is also why I believe the Dwarves had at one time had a MUCH more extensive surface-presence). For Unther's part, dwarves are still unwelcome there (so are elves, for different reasons). In fact, the whole of the Old Empires seem to very much dislike demihumans. Humanoids, however, they don't seem to have a problem with. Go figure.


I just happened to be reading those sections earlier today. Its been so long since I've read through any of it I've forgotten quite a lot. I was actually trying to find out as much info as I could on Akanul and the Akanamere. Unther definitely had 'holdings' in the Shar, and Calimshan (which is just as old as those empires) was also pushing into the Shar from the other direction (I believe they dominated the Channath Vale {Elsir Vale} region for a time). Not sure if some of that was in the Calimshan or LoI books (a boxed set and two separate books), or if some of it was in Serpent Kingdoms, or both. In the Unther/Old Empires thread someone was doing back on the WotC boards, they assumed there was a Calimshan/Unther war at some point, but it was more of a 'cold war' with only a few actual battles (Unther was waning when Calimshan was waxing IIRC, although both are 'cyclic').

Its also interesting to note that if you wanted to consider any of the Elsir Vale material canon for the Channath Vale, there is a preponderance of half-dragons in the region. And not just human halves - all sorts, like elves, dwarves, goblinoids, I think even a half-lizardman one, IIRC. the 'Fane of Tiamat' would be in the Wyrmbones there (renamed the Wyrmsmoke Mtns. in the EV material). Tiamat seems to have a fondness for The Shaar... which is funny, because Shar has a connection to The Shaar (I doubt its coincidence, but I also am not saying they are the same being - more likely Tiamat is trying to tap-into or find whatever it is Shar lost down there... herself?)




Thanks, this even more makes me wonder if Ramman isn't actually an interloper god from the Shaar. Similar with Ishtar... and my story I've been developing, I may bring back Ishtar separately from Isis again. I'd been using eldath, but Ishtar would make a better river goddess for the area. It might make things weird having Inanna, Ishtar, and Ramman (since two have war and two have love), but maybe they might more define their ethos in those areas. In other words, maybe Ramman becomes a god of bravery and other masculine aspects of combat and Inanna starts encroaching on the red knights fields of skill..... and maybe Inanna becomes more focused on physical lust (pushing into Sharess' field) and Ishtar becomes more a fertility goddess. Hell, I may remove Ki from what I was doing an just add Ishtar (or both..... or maybe Ki sacrifices herself during the Sundering, so we can have a story where she was there and she passed, just to show that some gods aren't back and why). Still, I kind of like the idea of the Untheric gods coming to Peleveran instead of Unther where Gilgeam is trying to take hold again.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  15:08:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, re-reading what I wrote, one thing from that other person's "Unther Musings" was that Calimshan actually acquired their 'chariot tech' from their hostilities with Unther. FR doesn't seem predisposed to chariots, but Calimshan weirdly has them, and the one group that seems to like them and use them a lot are the Old Empires, so it makes some sense that that was something that came out of the 'Shaar Wars'...

Shaar Wars

No... don't go there... must resist...

Manshoon holding a local princess by the throat: "You are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor! Take her away!"

Sorry Couldn't help myself...




EDIT:
Even though I'm NOT a SW fan {Gasp!}, I think a region of FR/Toril needs some Jawas and Sand People. The only place those huge rolling things would make sense, though, would be in the Taan region (Raumathari juggernaughts that some dwarves fixed-up and keep running). Tuskan Raiders are easy - just desert orcs (or hobgoblins).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Aug 2017 15:12:24
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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  16:43:13  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im making unther a racial purist nation so demihumans are furthest removed from relation to the godkings therefore they are most impure and are considered slaves by default.

Humanoid monsters are a curiosity that usually end up in the gladiatorial arena.

I hadnt thought about calishite presence in the shaar, i shall have to check the datea to see if they coincide but its a good way to explain the disparate use of chariots.

Not going to delve into faerunian god lore though because i dont regard them as physical beings, only ideas and belief. Demigods are different because they still are physical beings and are not yet proper gods.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2017 :  21:12:04  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Come up with currency for Unther. The coins were created following Gil-Geamesq's rulership of Unther after -734 DR


An'Dam: Known as children of the gods, this method of currency has not been produced in 2,000 years and has gradually fallen out of common use, though it is still accepted as currency by everyone in Unther.

The An'Dam are the finest pearls taken from the shallow waters off Unther's coast, carved with tiny images that represent one of the many god-kings of Unther. Depending upon the size and colour of the pearl and the quality of the imagery, An'Dam can be worth between 1 gp and 100 gp.

Ilguz: Known as the supreme warrior, this coin is a tiny golden pyramid with grooves and notches on alternating sides so they can be slotted together to form long bars. Each of these coins is worth the equivalent of 1 gp in Unther (although the weight of gold from coins smelted in the past 500 years makes it worth less than half that value in other lands).

Henumar: Known as the silvered charioteer, this coin is a thin disc of silver, impressed with the design of a chariot wheel with a hole in the centre where the wheel hub would be (usually strung together with strands of hair) . It is quite fragile and not commonly used.

Zabezu: Known as the bronze fury, this coin is little more than a bronze rod with a ridged end (to resemble a fist).

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2017 :  10:16:56  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And sheka is just a term for currency not an actual coin (at least thats how im spinning the contradiction i made when i just found an existing currency in the old empires sourcebook)

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sleyvas
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USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2017 :  13:22:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Also, re-reading what I wrote, one thing from that other person's "Unther Musings" was that Calimshan actually acquired their 'chariot tech' from their hostilities with Unther. FR doesn't seem predisposed to chariots, but Calimshan weirdly has them, and the one group that seems to like them and use them a lot are the Old Empires, so it makes some sense that that was something that came out of the 'Shaar Wars'...

Shaar Wars

No... don't go there... must resist...

Manshoon holding a local princess by the throat: "You are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor! Take her away!"

Sorry Couldn't help myself...




EDIT:
Even though I'm NOT a SW fan {Gasp!}, I think a region of FR/Toril needs some Jawas and Sand People. The only place those huge rolling things would make sense, though, would be in the Taan region (Raumathari juggernaughts that some dwarves fixed-up and keep running). Tuskan Raiders are easy - just desert orcs (or hobgoblins).



My favorite scene in Shaar Wars was the Lhesper Cantina, where they came in and the Loxo was singing from both trunks and the thri-kreen was playing a small guitar, an odd flute, and some drums. Meanwhile they had those two wemic female dancers singing backup.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2017 :  21:00:27  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Expanded some more modern dates for Unther.

1328 DR: The Rain Ban edict: Gil-Geamesq bans the building of new temples of Ish-Tarri and Ram-Manu and also the practice of flooding the fields without permission of the God-King. The justification for this ban is that the flooding helped spread the Dragon Plague in Unther.

1339 DR: Ish-Tarri enters voluntary house arrest in her last remaining temple in Shussel. She is never again seen in Unther.

1345 DR: All senior Ensi (priests) of Ish-Tarri and Ram-Manu are publicly executed for worshipping TiaMa'at. Only novice Ensi remain to tend the few shrines and single temples of either church.



Also added a god-tomb for Gir-Ubil (Girru) in the Smoking Mountains.


Also renamed a lot of places to be less english

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  02:40:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We really NEED to write-up a Lhesper Cantina now.

That guy who said, "My friend doesn't like you... I don't like you either" even looked like a half-orc.

Watch out for those spice-runners (smugglers), I hear they shoot first. One of them even hangs out with an Alaghi.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  08:26:27  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im afraid i have no idea what this cantina is, cant say im a big fan of parodies. I read a few characters in one of the dragon mags which parodied Al Capone and Elliot Ness and i was not a fan.

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  14:16:23  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

We really NEED to write-up a Lhesper Cantina now.

That guy who said, "My friend doesn't like you... I don't like you either" even looked like a half-orc.

Watch out for those spice-runners (smugglers), I hear they shoot first. One of them even hangs out with an Alaghi.



I guess Furifax or his son can fulfill that role. xD

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  14:31:09  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Furifax was once one of Gilgeams attendants (and presumably a male courtesan), i doubt he would be ugly as a half orc, most likely he would be a near perfect male specimen

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  15:11:25  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im thinking about the god tombs of Unther.

At the moment they appear to be spread all over the place, with one in the Great Dale, others in southern Unther.

I would have thought it would be easier to bury the dead godkings all in one place (it would certainly be easier to guard).

So im thinking perhaps there is a balley of the dead gods in southern unther or the shaar, but this is a false set of tombs filled with monsters and traps.
The real godtombs were made by the clergy and were put in places where the godking was most happy (so gir-ubil is in a volcano).

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  19:32:56  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New words or places.

Nid'Angol: The Untheric name for the Smoking Mountains

Mt Temmikant now translates as Dragon Sphinx Mountain but it actually translates literally as Dragon True/Lion (Kana means true kanut means lion the word for sphinx is bastardised and interpreted as truth lion - they are seen as noble beasts and guardians of gateways to the lands of the dead).

Mt Fussel translates as Pointed Mountain.

Mheth means wood. Which means that the Methwood actually means the wood wood. Methmere means the wood lake

Napi'Ther Eqlu: Means the PLains of Life (the untheric version of Menesankh) and encompasses all lands from the Greenfields to the River of Swords.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2017 :  19:45:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since we already have a 'Greenfields' up north, we should rename it the 'Yetmor Greenfields', or simply, the 'Yetmor Fields' (Yetmor = 'green' in Untheric).

Plus... its just funny...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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