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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2018 :  21:13:00  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So 427 DR is the start of Chessenta breaking away from Unther. The Mage Purges in Shoon cause a large scale migration of magic users out of Shoon lands, a significant number of these magic users end up in the Wizards' Reach. They then cause the Southern Coast of Thay to rebel which weakens Unther and allows Chessenta to rebel. The Wizards' Reach even attempts to expand into Threskel which helps Chessenta's rebellion.


Added some details about the Banespear and Mount Thulbane to allude to a combat between Assuran and Bane on its slopes.

Also put a nod in for Kalzareinad and Maladraedior being his last worshipper. I made Kal-Zarein a god of secrets from Akanu who is rumoured to have colluded with TiaMa'at to learn magic and who fled south when Gil-Geamesq became King of Akanu.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2018 :  14:41:02  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Updated Unther quite a bit. Detailed the Uthangol Mountains and added in an old fortress from the time of the First Empire.

I've made the Iron Citadel (in the Uthangol Mountains) the headquarters for a sauroid race known as the Gaund. These Gaund were once sarrukh of Okoth but like many clans they used their body shaping magics on themselves too much and were branded no longer sarrukh by the leaders of okoth. This prompted the civil war (many clans practiced bodyshaping on themselves) that destroyed Okoth and led to the planewalking.

Now the Gaunds are a subterranean race of lizardmen with 3 red eyes and grey skin that are exceptionally intelligent. They once lived in the Lake of Steam region but were hunted to extinction there by beholders and have long since returned to the Smoking Mountains, Black Ash Plains and Uthangol Mountains.

Their purpose will be as a foil to the sarrukh of okoth who are trying to infiltrate Unther and Mulhorand through the various cults.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2018 :  12:25:25  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay. I need the help of experts on the Shaar as the history of Unther impacts the history of the Shaar quite a bit and as typical for FR its confusing and contradicting.



So there is a quote that prior to the Orcgate Wars the empire of Unther has control of the Shaar and Dambrath etc. That means sometime between -2000 DR and -1000 DR Unther controls large swathes of land in the eastern and possibly central Shaar.

However around 205 DR Eltabranar attacks Mulhorand and Unther. Eltabranar is located in the Eastern Shaar and therefore that means sometime between -1000 DR and 200 DR Unther lost control of its provinces.

Then around 400 DR Shoon and Unther come into conflict in the Central Shaar and both empires eventually lose control of the whole region. This means that between 200 DR and 400 DR Unther regains control over Central and Eastern Shaar and then loses it all in a war with Shoon.

To further muddy the waters the Dwarves of the Great Rift have not been in conflict with the surface for the last 200 years and they hold a grudge against Unther and will not trade with them. Does this mean Unther and the Great Rift had a war around 200 years ago (unlikely given Unther's current state and its decline since GIlgeam's accession) or does it mean Unther and the Great Rift went to war much longer ago and the Great Rift had another war with surface dwellers in the Shaar 200 years ago.

Also in Dambrath I know the Arkauins of Eltabranar headed south and merged with natives to form the natives of Dambrath before it was conquered by the drow and then ruled by the crinti. But the queen of Dambrath is preparing in case Unther comes to reclaim its territory. Does this mean Unther took Dambrath from the Arkauins (pursued them to Dambrath and subjugated them thus establishing the cities of Dambrath after 200 DR) or is there a recent conflict.






My initial thoughts are as follows.

Unther expands around -1300 DR to conquer the Eastern Shaar and the lands of Luiren and Dambrath. -1076 DR the Orcgate opens and Unther pulls all its troops out of southern lands to fight the wars.
-1064 DR Ashanath opens a portal founding its twin capital of Shaundalar in the COuncil Hills. THis means Unther effectively loses control of the Eastern Shaar and all lands south which degenerate into nomadism once more. Unther doesn't care about the loss of colonies however as it is dealing with the destruction of most of its godkings.

-946 DR Shaundaular is destroyed.

-734 DR Gilgeam is crowned God-King of Unther and expansion begins once again. Slowly Unther begins to encroach upon the former territory of Shaundaular coming into conflict with the natives.

Sometime between -734 and 100 DR is when Unther established/acquired Peleveran possibly taking it from the gold dwarves that lived there originally.

205 DR Eltabranar attacks Unther and Mulhorand conquering the settlements in Central and Eastern Shaar and southern parts of Unther and Mulhorand.

210 DR Unther and Mulhorand defeat Eltabranar. The Arkauins flee south to Dambrath pursued slowly by Unther.

300 DR Unther occupies Dambrath and subjugates the Arkauins again establishing cities like Shantil and Hazuth.

420 DR Unther and Shoon go to war. Unther is unable to control far flung provinces in Dambrath and Luiren so they become effectively independent.






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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  21:46:29  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/the-church-of-the-all-father/

Finished an outline of the Church of Gil-Geamesq, I've tried to explain away how Zimrilim manages to keep hold of power when Gil-Geamesq in unpredictable and his underlings are all as ambitious and amoral as himself (he consumes large quantities of serthe which has imbued him with enhanced attributes and innate magical abilities, as well as extending his life.

Also tried to explain how the Citadel of Black Ash from Powers and Pantheons has a senior priest with the title of Autarch which sounds far too much like a title from western faerun. I've created a growing cult of Bane within the church that will be using the title Autarch which is corruption of old Netherese words which spread to Amn and then to the Vilhon and Chessenta/Threskel before Autarch Kabarrath Telthaugh (before he granted himself the title of Dread Imperceptor and split from the Orthodox Church to create the True Church of Bane).

Now that I've covered all the major organisations and settlements its time to go back and populate everything with people and items and history.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  15:57:55  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Added my own take on the altar of scales, malise, and kolchis into the cult of the queen of chaos and unthalass pages.

By 1373 DR it will be the Altar of Scales, but for now it is a ruined former temple to Amar-Du'uk, with an enchanted pool of dragons blood at its centre (used to create dragon bane weapons), a former alchemist who is trying to create his own draconic monsters, and a gaund pretending to be a lizardman who acts as caretaker while keeping an eye and ear out for anything sarrukh related.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  01:00:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did you know there were a pair of Rakshasa necromancers (Al'Chazar Rakshasa, 3e MM3, pg.135) operating out of Unthalas in 3e? They were stirring unrest in Chessenta as well. I wonder what sort of things may have happened to them when it all went to Abeir.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  09:05:45  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i cant say much about abeir but id be tempted to make them more specific and less generic.

Rakshasa are cat like fiends so i could tie them to the were leopard in the northern wizards.

Al'Chazar is phonetically similar to Al'Hanar from Al'Hanar castle (im making Al'Hanar the founder of the knightly order who claim kinship with Myrkul and who were exiled from Murghom along with Myrkul for their evil use of magic).
So perhaps Al'Chazar was another relative of Myrkul but he managed to curse himself into a catlike form with shapeshifting powers.

His descendants have infiltrated a number of powerful magic organisations including the amethyst sodality, the northern wizards, and the enclave. They are searching for information about how Myrkul ascended to godhood.

As for the two in Unthalass, of i recall correctly, rakshasa like enslaving and torturing people so im going to make the rakshasa be the heads of two of the three freeholder families that run the arena in Unthalass on the Isle of Blood.

The rakshasa get a steady supply of dead bodies to work with, they are rich and well placed in Unther's society with favour from Gil-Geamesq as long as they put on suitable spectacles of death for him. And no one will care if they experiment upon a few of the criminals delivered to them for use in the arena.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  11:43:35  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Making a new magic item based on the talons of the danse macabre in old empires.

Lash of the Death Dance: This two lash whip has both lengths end in a large curved bony talon. When brandished the talons dance around on the end of the lash completely stripping away the skin of any nearby victim in a matter of minutes.

The whip itself is an ordinary whip, but the talons where among a score gathered from the Ash dragon by Ass-Uraqn and enchanted to attack enemies when hurled in their direction.

Most of the talons have been lost over the years but two remain in Unther in the possession of An-Unaki, High Lord of Messemprar, who uses the Lash of the Death Dance to torture his enemies and prisoners in the levels beneath the summer palace of Messemprar.




Wondering if i might add extra powers such as if you bury the talon in ash of the Black Ash Plain then it will construct a small dragon like servitor. If all talons are buried together then the size of the servitor dragon increases by 1 category per additional talon.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2018 :  14:54:39  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since I'm adding so many magic items now I thought I had best quantify the rules I am using to create such magic items.

Each magical power has its own number of uses. range. and activation method. Magic items are also now very very expensive to create but that is deliberate - commoners earn sp per year - skilled workers earn 10s of sp per year - merchants earn maybe 1 gp per year - nobles earn between 1 gp and 10 gp per year - high nobles earn up to 100 gp per year - royalty up to 1000 gp per year. That means even a king would struggle to commission a magic item withoug a lot of planning and monetary reserves.

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/arrgs-rules/

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2018 :  20:54:57  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did a little bit of restructuring. Now there are drop down menus at the top of the page

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2018 :  21:32:34  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Added a page containing magic items.

Also added an explanation as to why the history of Unther in canon sources is slightly different to mine.
The Geamesq-Samata (The Epic of Gil-Geamesq), also known as the false history of Unther. It is a continuous work produced by the government of Unther (the Church of the All Father) which alters historic events to put Gil-Geamesq in a better light.

It is this false history that makes Gil-Geamesq the son of E-Nlil, the victor of the Orcgate Wars, the rightful heir of E-Nlil, Gil-Geamesq and his victory tour of Unther after the Orcgate Wars, etc.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2018 :  21:50:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like that Deux Ex machina for changing canon. It works well there.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2018 :  21:58:49  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you very much (assuming you meant deus ex machina in a positive way - thanks to wotc i often think of them as negative). Although im sure i read in the Old Empires sourcebook that gilgeam changed the history so i cant claim the credit for the idea.

If only i could use the same tactic elsewhere but instead i will have to rely on George Martins way of doing history. The bards make the stories that become history and sometimes they lie about the third hand account they heard from some drunk who claimed he was there.
That is how real histories are made, unless the king pays to have a history written and then he pays for it to be written the way he wants it.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2018 :  20:23:09  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Going back to one of the skeleton pages to try and flesh it out.

Looking at the Enclave again.

I noticed isimud had a cap with runes on and a set of glasses. Anyone have any ideas on what these may be. Im not doing mass produced magic items so if he has a magic item worth mentioning then id like to give it history and a name.

Im making the headquarters/demiplane/portal nexus of imaskari origin but also giving clues to it being even older (multi armed ghosts inside, insect like pods for sleeping and each one containing a black star shaped gem that is fragile but magically attuned.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2018 :  20:43:22  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I changed Isimud to E-Simud and made him the last son of E-Nlil (being the son of a divine being he gets an incredibly long life).

Created a new magic artefact known as the Cowl of Eyes which allows him to see through all kinds of illusions and scry far off places and generally be a divining expert. I'm debating making this artefact one of the Imaskarcana which I've alluded to by allowing it to replicate itself (like the Mask of TiaMa'at) and that E-Simud can communicate with it and that it seems to have bestowed massive amounts of magical knowledge upon him.

I've decided on the Imaskari portal network being a legacy of the spellweavers that had a presence in this land long ago (and may have constructed the stone colossus). The spellweavers all over Faerun disappeared during their Grand Conjunction event (except for Jergal). I've tried to link this disappearance to the lore in the ecology of the Spellweaver and George Krashos' Jergal article (the sstar gems which I've also made the same as chardalyn).

Spellweaver preence in the Old Empires accounts for the pyramid structure in both Ascore and the influence on the Old Empires so I need to place a few really ancient pyramid like "Nodes" around the Old Empires but keep them soooo hidden that no-one has found them yet (maybe in the lake in Murghom/Semphar - perhaps the Okothian ruins in Azulduth are built atop the Node - or perhaps the node is extraplanar in nature and can only be reached by a portal).


https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/home/organisations/the-enclave/

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2018 :  21:47:43  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So im adding in another akchazar rakshasa (in addition to the two in unthalass). This time the akchazar is Avid from Durpar. He is masquerading as a wereleopard and is now a member of the enclave. The enclave have sent him to messemprar to infiltrate the northern wizards (covers off a plot hook about a wereleopard being in the northern wizards) so the enclave can keep an eye on their activities and steal any juicy magic they may possess.

The al'chazar are of the cursed scions of myrkul (like the al'hanar). They are mainly concentrated in durpar, ulgarth, estagund, var, etc where they have infiltrated many trading families. They are strong supporters of the amethyst sodslity and are attempting to usurp control of that group by becoming the richest family.

Avid is posing as a rich merchant from durpar to gain membership of the northern wizards (by giving them allies among the merchants). By doing this he hopes to become a senior member of the enclave so he can gain control over a portal network to rival the two main families running the amethyst sodality.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2018 :  05:47:38  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I probably shouldn't tell you this, buuuuuut...

I was going to place a new quasi-settlement (one of those 'Waystop' Inns) on the road north of Beregost, right where it splits off and heads west to Candlekeep. The Friendly Arm is on that road, but way too far north for my purposes. I was thinking there should be something there, since its such an important intersection, and people trying to get into Candlekeep would need a place to stay. I had even consider a little business there that could sell rare books, for those who couldn't get in with the ones they have.

So, before I even placed something on the map, or even thought about a name, I started looking over the Baldur's Gate VG maps again, and I spot something I hadn't noticed before - High Hedge. Its a waystop kind of place, and its pretty-much right where I need it (a bit north, but those maps are so warped its easy enough to fudge it). And Here's the a part you are going to be interested in - a guy name Thalantyr the conjurer owns a 'magic shop' there! he's got a similar setup to a RW enclave going on. Now, his background says he is from Beregost, but I have to wonder at where he's getting all the nifty goodies for his shop? My first thought was that he is trading rare books for them, because people need those to get into CK. However, it dawned on me - what if he is a Red Wizard agent? Its not like they can just setup an enclave right outside of Candlekeep, but what if they just 'backed him'? He could have some magic about him that obscures the truth (and I am sure the Scribes of CK are fully aware of he he works for). So maybe he gets some of his stuff from trades, but he was also getting covert deliveries from Thay...

Homebrew Lore:
Which brings me to the second part. They were using minor demons for deliveries (they may even do this elsewhere - they may not want to setup permanent two-way portals to Thay, and having bound fiends who can teleport would be very thrifty - think of it like an 'infernal Amazon' LOL). Figure real low-level guys, like quasits and stuff. But one of the 'delivery boys' was a Vrock. Then one day bad things happened in Thay, and their was a civil war. most of these fiends that were assigned to the Trade and the enclaves were commandeer for military service, but the Vrocks master was killed early on. He planned to return home, but then the spellplague happened, and something went wrong, and he was unable to shift back to the Abyss (over time, he probably could have again). Not knowing what to do, and not having a human or demon master to order him around, and certainly not wanting to fight in any stupid human war, he went to the only other place he knew - High Hedge. He figured he would go there, overpower Thalantyr, and force him to send him back to the Abyss.

He gets there, and Thalantyr manages to fend him off with what little magic he still has (most of the stuff in his shop still worked fine), and the fiend finally leads with him to be sent home. Thalantyr explains the situation with magic - that all magic is working poorly, and high-level magic has become extemely difficult to cast - nearly impossible. And any sort of translocation magic is out of the question (at his pint the Vrock realizes it had been very lucky it was able to get to High Hedge (fiendish magic is affected, but less severely) without being destroyed. So the two work out a deal - the Vrock can't go home (yet), and doesn't really know what to do with itself. Thalantyr tells it he'll take care of it - give it a home, feed it, whatever, and they could be 'partners'. Since the Vrock could still teleport around on the same world - something most other Torillian mages cudn't ATM - the Vrock could use its nature ability and the chaos of the Spellplague to 'raid' other wizards, and their libraries. Since most wizards were without their defenses the first few years of the Spellplague, the Vrock didn't have much to fear. So the Vrock does just that, 'porting around stealing books and other stuff, and Thalantyr gives it whatever it requires (including a helpless victim every once in awhile).

Over the course of a century, the two have become a weird sort of friends. The Vrock realizes magic has 'healed' enough a long time ago and he could have gone home, but he's content. In fact, he barely even eats people anymore. He's been away from the Abyss so long he realizes to go back would just get hims stuck as someone else's servant again, or dying in the Blood War, or worse. So he disguises himself as Thalantyr's apprentice, and helps him around the shop. He still steals books and the occasional magic item, but he has to be a lot more careful now that magic is working properly again. He's found the best way to go about this is to raid buried ruins, which he can get in and out of easily, and holds minimal risk. Dragons have proved to be a great source of information - they don't seem to care for killing fiends (overly much), and they have long memories. The dragons tell Vrocky (thats what Thalantyr started calling him) about human and other 'lost cities from ages ago', and he promises to bring them back some of the monetary treasure. Since the main thing Thalantyr has an interest in is books (of the non-spell variety), for his trade with Candlekeep aspirants, and dragons have very little love for that type of 'treasure' (except for magic books, of course), the dragons are all happy to help as well (no risk to them, and they aren't dealing with humans, humanoids, or anything else that's likely to cause them problems later - they actually trust fiends) - they get more treasure just by relating some old tales to a Vrock every now and then.

But if Thay should come back in some guise... Thalantyr's 'private' operation may come to en an end. He's even noticed a red Wizard or two poking around otuside his shop a couple of times in the past year...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Feb 2018 05:50:33
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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2018 :  07:21:17  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like everything up to the spellplague (im sure the spellplague stuff is good but i cant seem to read it without the screen going red and obscuring my vision).

In my lower magic version of the realms i didnt like portal magic being common place or affordable. However i love Thay and i love the enclaves.

With your idea of a fiendish postal service (i would use devils mostly but each enclave will have its own means of transportation) and my method for making magic items (which in thay includes draining slaves of xp and health to lower the cost of magic item creation) i think that covers all the things abiut Thay i wasnt comfortable with.

Thay are acquiring thousands of slaves and draining them of life and experience before part exchanging the soul husks with devils to pay for free transport across the realms. Its really evil, i like it.

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
4116 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2018 :  16:27:57  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So im intending to make the old empires region home to one or more nodes from the spellweavers (George already made some links with Jergal and Imaskar and i figure he travelled there using the old spellweaver nodes).

So the pyramids in ascore were part of the spellweaver empire of eril. The mulan were very fond of pyramids and i figure now that this pyramid usage was in imitation of the pyramids they found left behind by the spellweavers (which the imaskari also utilised).

The pyramids appear to have been most closely concentrated around the land of the dead which was very close to where fuirgar is.

The stone colossi were made by the spellweavers to serve them. I figure that fuirgar is the last solid remnant of the spellweaver empire which is still guarded by these huge colossi who periodically activate and kill intruders or repair buildings. Few who go to fuirgar (land of the giants) ever come back.

Now Azulduth is home to the ruins of the sarrukh capital of okoth. In 4e is the vault of records and a moon stair which even the sarrukh cannot gain access to.
I figure the moon stair leads to a spellweaver portal nexus/node (the imaskari learned it from somewhere).

Now one thing that puzzles me is that azulduth is constantly filling with water. This water is siphoned off into the deep realm (by dwarves presumably) and it also drains into the Alamber Sea. That is 2e info. 4e mentions that Azulduth also drains south into Luiren so either there is some weird geography going on (a raised crater that fills with water from nowhere) or someone magically filled Azulduth with water and that magic is still going on.


Perhaps Azulduth is the remnants of the big spellweaver nod. The sarrukh blew it up and filled the catacombs with water.

Or perhaps it is the other way around. Perhaps the spellweavers were winning the war with the sarrukh. They raised the capital of okoth and filled it with salt water but then died from the "plague" that was afflicting them.

Then again we have the phaerimm created by the spellweavers to destroy the sarrukh. The phaerimm survive and so the spellweavers create the nether scrolls to eradicate both races. This occured in the anauroch region 30000 years ago and in the end the sarrukh rerouted the narrow sea to destroy the sarrukh. What if that entire pattern repeated almost exactly in the old empires.
So the spellweavers also set phaerimm on okoth. The phaerimm and okoth sarrukh do not eradicate each other. They are given the nether scrolls and the sarrukh redirect the waters of the Alamber to run through the phaerimm homeland (the ohaerimm retreat into their demiplane home that they created - the same place they retreated to in anauroch).

So the Alamber Sea covered much more of southern Mulhorand/Unther than before until the dwarves of the great rift drained it into the underdark.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7432 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  01:38:40  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I probably shouldn't tell you this, buuuuuut...

I was going to place a new quasi-settlement (one of those 'Waystop' Inns) on the road north of Beregost, right where it splits off and heads west to Candlekeep. The Friendly Arm is on that road, but way too far north for my purposes. I was thinking there should be something there, since its such an important intersection, and people trying to get into Candlekeep would need a place to stay. I had even consider a little business there that could sell rare books, for those who couldn't get in with the ones they have.

So, before I even placed something on the map, or even thought about a name, I started looking over the Baldur's Gate VG maps again, and I spot something I hadn't noticed before - High Hedge. Its a waystop kind of place, and its pretty-much right where I need it (a bit north, but those maps are so warped its easy enough to fudge it). And Here's the a part you are going to be interested in - a guy name Thalantyr the conjurer owns a 'magic shop' there! he's got a similar setup to a RW enclave going on. Now, his background says he is from Beregost, but I have to wonder at where he's getting all the nifty goodies for his shop? My first thought was that he is trading rare books for them, because people need those to get into CK. However, it dawned on me - what if he is a Red Wizard agent? Its not like they can just setup an enclave right outside of Candlekeep, but what if they just 'backed him'? He could have some magic about him that obscures the truth (and I am sure the Scribes of CK are fully aware of he he works for). So maybe he gets some of his stuff from trades, but he was also getting covert deliveries from Thay...

Homebrew Lore:
Which brings me to the second part. They were using minor demons for deliveries (they may even do this elsewhere - they may not want to setup permanent two-way portals to Thay, and having bound fiends who can teleport would be very thrifty - think of it like an 'infernal Amazon' LOL). Figure real low-level guys, like quasits and stuff. But one of the 'delivery boys' was a Vrock. Then one day bad things happened in Thay, and their was a civil war. most of these fiends that were assigned to the Trade and the enclaves were commandeer for military service, but the Vrocks master was killed early on. He planned to return home, but then the spellplague happened, and something went wrong, and he was unable to shift back to the Abyss (over time, he probably could have again). Not knowing what to do, and not having a human or demon master to order him around, and certainly not wanting to fight in any stupid human war, he went to the only other place he knew - High Hedge. He figured he would go there, overpower Thalantyr, and force him to send him back to the Abyss.

He gets there, and Thalantyr manages to fend him off with what little magic he still has (most of the stuff in his shop still worked fine), and the fiend finally leads with him to be sent home. Thalantyr explains the situation with magic - that all magic is working poorly, and high-level magic has become extemely difficult to cast - nearly impossible. And any sort of translocation magic is out of the question (at his pint the Vrock realizes it had been very lucky it was able to get to High Hedge (fiendish magic is affected, but less severely) without being destroyed. So the two work out a deal - the Vrock can't go home (yet), and doesn't really know what to do with itself. Thalantyr tells it he'll take care of it - give it a home, feed it, whatever, and they could be 'partners'. Since the Vrock could still teleport around on the same world - something most other Torillian mages cudn't ATM - the Vrock could use its nature ability and the chaos of the Spellplague to 'raid' other wizards, and their libraries. Since most wizards were without their defenses the first few years of the Spellplague, the Vrock didn't have much to fear. So the Vrock does just that, 'porting around stealing books and other stuff, and Thalantyr gives it whatever it requires (including a helpless victim every once in awhile).

Over the course of a century, the two have become a weird sort of friends. The Vrock realizes magic has 'healed' enough a long time ago and he could have gone home, but he's content. In fact, he barely even eats people anymore. He's been away from the Abyss so long he realizes to go back would just get hims stuck as someone else's servant again, or dying in the Blood War, or worse. So he disguises himself as Thalantyr's apprentice, and helps him around the shop. He still steals books and the occasional magic item, but he has to be a lot more careful now that magic is working properly again. He's found the best way to go about this is to raid buried ruins, which he can get in and out of easily, and holds minimal risk. Dragons have proved to be a great source of information - they don't seem to care for killing fiends (overly much), and they have long memories. The dragons tell Vrocky (thats what Thalantyr started calling him) about human and other 'lost cities from ages ago', and he promises to bring them back some of the monetary treasure. Since the main thing Thalantyr has an interest in is books (of the non-spell variety), for his trade with Candlekeep aspirants, and dragons have very little love for that type of 'treasure' (except for magic books, of course), the dragons are all happy to help as well (no risk to them, and they aren't dealing with humans, humanoids, or anything else that's likely to cause them problems later - they actually trust fiends) - they get more treasure just by relating some old tales to a Vrock every now and then.

But if Thay should come back in some guise... Thalantyr's 'private' operation may come to en an end. He's even noticed a red Wizard or two poking around otuside his shop a couple of times in the past year...



I love the idea of delivery by fiend. However, I would not choose demons for that. Devils are less likely to ditch things or steal.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
574 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2018 :  22:43:27  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I have some ideas - spoke about them in the past, but I adapted them to the stuff you did, and I wonder if you would like to use some of them dazzlerdal.

1. Assuryan/Hoar, or rather Ass-Uraqn. Assuran, seems to be based on the patron God of Assyria, and the city Assur, Assur/Ashur.

Assur is believed by many to be a construct, a deification of the city-state of Assur* (from which the Empire of Assyria first expanded). Assur though, was given near imidatelly elements of Enlil, to the point he was pretty much Enlil's north/Assyrian incarnation. To the point Assur's spouse, the goddess Mullissu, was aparently just the Assyrian version of Ninlil, Enlil's wife.

This also may reflect Assuran's portfolio in Forgotten Realms, ie poetic justice and retribution (connected to Law), and earlier, weather. Or at least neatly fits.

Assur did latter on adsorb, and got identified with Anshar, to the point his name was written as Anshar in cuneiform, but that was a later development, to establish Assur as a more primordial entity. (Especially that in some versions/translations of Enuma Elish, Anshar was directly Tiamat and Apsu' son, rather than the son of Lahamu and Lahmu, just he and Kishar were the latter born twins/pair).


Assuran also much more resembles the Enlil of myth, rather than the Neutral Good Deities and Demigods incarnation, as the real life Enlil, was a vengeful deity, who could be described as Lawful Neutral (and even was characterized so in the Dragon magazine during the 3.5 era).

So my idea from this is, that Ass-Uraqn could be a decesdant of E-Nlil, who also helped his ascension (maybe using some of the slain Anshar's divinity, if to play the reall life elements further). This would also have a neat paralell the antagonism with Gil-Geamesq in your version - it could be possible Gil-Geamesq feared Ass-Uraqn would recieve some of E-Nlil or power, or could be seen as a more worthy succesor of E-Nlil.

(As well as connect to Ass-Uraqn rivalry with Ram-Manu, as Ramman, was a form of Haddad/Addad/Ishkur, who in the Hittite/Hurrian pantheon, as Teshub/Tarhuna, had a major conflict with Kumarbi, the Hittite/Hurian form of Enlil).

Bt I'll understand if you wouldn't want to further expand Ass-Uraqn origin, and make it needlessly complicated, and possibly clash with other lore you are writing.

2. An idea for a major heresy in both the Old Kingdoms, as well as Imaskari - based on the origin of the Untheric and Mulhorand pantheon in first Old Kingdom's source-book.

quote:
Toward the end of the previous age,
tribes of humans were pushed out of
the Great Kingdoms of the southeast,
which were covered in desert. Legends
speak of a great war in which powerful
humans fought against the gods to
wrest away their power. The humans
won and became god-kings, but the war
destroyed their kingdoms. These godkings,
Re and Enlil, led the shattered
remnants of their peoples into Mulhorand
and Unther. The two god-kings
and their spouses became the leaders of
the royal houses of these two nations.



Quite familiar, but also very different at the same time from the current, canon version. I would guess with could be more popular/accepted in Thay, but speaking this in Mulhorand, Unther, or among Imaskari survivors could be an equivalent to suicide.

(I wrote about this earlier, but I saw you didn't want to go with this version, and rather chose one based more on Eric L. Boyd's reimagining of Mulhorand, Unther and Imaskar, which is understandable. But I think this as a heresy, is a delicious idea.)

*although an alternate, less accepted theory connects Assur as rather form of the Sumerian deity Asaru/Asar/Asari/Asarlugi - a fairly important god absorbed faily early on by Marduk, most notably making Marduk the son of Enki (that was originally an attribute of Asar/Asarlugi). That Asar is a fairly visible component of Marduk as we know the God of Babylon, is visible that multiple of Marduk's 50 names, are names and titles of Asar/Asarlugi (Asaruludu, Asaru, Asarualim, Asarualimnunna, and possibly Asharru.)

Another notable thing with Asar/Asaru though, is that his name is possibly ideticall to the proper pronouncuation of Osiris' name (Asar, Asari or Aser, hence Asari in Mass Effect are named after Osiris).

But I think it would have more sense to connect Assuran/Ass-Uraqn/Hoar only to Marduk/Amar-Du'uk, as connecting him to Osiris would to...messy

-----------------------------

And hey I'm back (again) - this time I hope permanently :)

Edited by - Baltas on 26 Feb 2018 22:45:12
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2018 :  23:24:37  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like that heresy a lot.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I love the idea of delivery by fiend. However, I would not choose demons for that. Devils are less likely to ditch things or steal.

Well, originally my thoughts were 'all different kinds' of outsiders/fiends could be used - anything that could teleport. It would have started out with Red Wizards using their familiars for this (Quasits and Imps), and then they what have found others, including non-fiends when they could get them (although I am not picturing RW's having non-evil familiars or summoning non-evil creatures, but you never know). The Vrock was probably fairly unique - a somewhat trustworthy member of its kind (more like, "it feared its masters too much to think about messing up"). I just like the idea this thing is called 'Rocky' and no-one's the wiser (although as I said, I am sure the higher-ups of Candlekeep know exactly whats going on, but since 'morality' has nothing to do with knowledge and books, and the services he provides does help them indirectly, they just choose to 'keep an eye on him').

So now I am picturing a bunch of different Outsiders - mostly fiends but there should be all types - 'Bamfing' all over the Realms, with these great big sacks (full of the goods they need to deliver). Every so often they grab themselves a 'snack'... and hence the folklore of the Krampus was born.
Ordinarily, the Thayans would not allow such things to go on (stealing/eating children is bad for business), but the Winter Solstice is a special time of year in the Unapproachable East, when its customary to give rewards to one's faithful followers, so during that time of year they let the fiends have some fun and grab kids, as a special treat.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Feb 2018 23:28:21
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7432 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2018 :  23:34:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally one of the things I've wondered for a while now was if the city of Assur down in Durpar isn't where Assuran is from. We had also wondered if he isn't some kind of ascended dragon (with the three thunders being in his name and the symbology of lightning.... and the old rules that dragons could breathe 3 times whenever 1st edition was around... it would make sense if he were a LN blue dragon with a thirst for "an eye for an eye" type vengeance). IF that were the case, I'd wonder about the Sublime Potentate Anwir Dupretiskava (LE male ancient blue dragon) who rules down in Var the Golden, and just who his father is.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7432 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2018 :  23:48:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

So now I am picturing a bunch of different Outsiders - mostly fiends but there should be all types - 'Bamfing' all over the Realms, with these great big sacks (full of the goods they need to deliver). Every so often they grab themselves a 'snack'... and hence the folklore of the Krampus was born.
Ordinarily, the Thayans would not allow such things to go on (stealing/eating children is bad for business), but the Winter Solstice is a special time of year in the Unapproachable East, when its customary to give rewards to one's faithful followers, so during that time of year they let the fiends have some fun and grab kids, as a special treat.



Lol, its only bad for business if we don't have red wizards from the enclave show up on the scene to "banish" the fiends after they've had their snack and to personally console the grieving mother (who is hot and whose husband was also eaten)... hell, maybe even kill a few more illusory demons while they're at it.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
574 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2018 :  23:57:31  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To be fair, Durapri are a bit...odd, as they have Mesopotoman connections, despite aparently never being that influenced by Untheri culture. (From what we know at least).

Another example is that when Desert of Desolation was moved to the Realms, the Durpari specifically monotheistically worshipped Anu. Of the Mesopotamian pantheon. This quickly evolved/was retconned into the concept of Adama. Although Thomas M. Costa connected Adama to Anu in his articles, stating Adama was in part inspired by the memory of Anu mixed with other influences.

Anu there was a powerfull deity killed by Imaskari, during the war of the Mulani gods with the Imaskari Empire, and Enlil took over as the head of the pantheon.

Another connection is the Alias of Gond among Durpari - Zionil, resembling in structure names of Sumerian deities, particulary Enlil.

(Although God, and by extension Zionil FAR more resemle Enki, who was the god of crafts and invention, and was equated with Kothar-Wa-Khasis, who in turn inpired possibly the Greek Hephastus.)

[EDIT]

Satama, the man who founded the Adma religion, is also seemingly named after the title Satam/Satmmu (SA.TAM), from what I know, meaning "Official" (of the Temple).

But all of those connections, are quite interesting...

Edited by - Baltas on 27 Feb 2018 00:12:48
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