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 Heaven and Hell - i need advice. (Rise of Tiamat)
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Fendrikor
Learned Scribe

Australia
186 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2017 :  18:50:13  Show Profile Send Fendrikor a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Oh great readers, i humbly present myself to the necessarium's in search of knowledge.

You see... a Devil has approached one of my charges, one named Lord Volmer, a Servant of Bel - Advisor to the Archduchess Zariel of Avernus, 1st layer of Baator *looks around warily*.

The charge was an Aasimar... a young impressionable thing, naive with a strong penchant for goodness in this world. She is the last decendant of the Argent bloodline, and can trace her lineage to Caelar Argent, the Shining Lady and beyond. Hers has been a long lineage of self sacrifice. As such, she believes that good souls should not have to sacrifice themselves to end the machinations of the worlds great evils, instead, she believes that if evil can fight evil in goods stead - then let it.

As it is the year 1478, the year of the Warrior Princess, dark forces work together to free Tiamat from her prison in hell. The Cult of the Dragon gathers a great hoard of treasure to suit the godess of greed, while the Red Wizard of Thay amass thousands of sacrifices - in league with Zariel, the Archduchess of Avernus, they intend to birth Tiamat forth into the realms to cover all its lands in the darkness of her long draconic shadow.

Bel, unhappy with his place as Zariels advisor, wishes to see Zariel deposed and him to rise in her stead. Representing a collective of Archdukes, Bel wishes to thwart Zariels plans upon the prime material. She has already alowed an entire Legion to be summoned to the Well of Dragons in its defence. Bel hopes that by bolstering the mortal armies that mass to challenge Tiamats return he can secure a victory that will humiliate Zariel.

To do so he has approached the Aasimar through his servant, Lord Volmer. Volmer told the current situation to her, and offered her the Pact Insideous.

Hells armies would fight and bleed, countering eachother on the battlefield, but they would need to be summoned forth... he told her the means of doing so would require opening the hell portals dormant beneath Castle Dragonspear - portals last closed by her Ancestor Caelar Argent, the Shining Lady. Her blood is symbolic, just a few drops upon the Altar of Tempus there in, and the removal of its key-stone relic (the bright blade Ildrayll) from within its altar should rent open a gate between the worlds. Bel's coalition of Archdukes would then use their power to gate through a Legion to counter Zariels own.

In order to complete the ritual she would need to say 'Avernus welcomes all, as i welcome Avernus'.

... the poor girl actually believes she is doing good. But compacting with fiends is a fools game. I fear for her soul. But what Bel asks seems so incrementally benign... what could he be hiding that might endanger her immortal soul?

** :) Anyone go any ideas? **

'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6240 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  01:42:49  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not sure if Tiamat views her Hell as a "prison", lol ... more of a "playground". Can she not already leave any time she wishes?

[/Ayrik]
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
561 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  01:56:33  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In Tyranny of Dragons? I guess she was imprisoned, though I don't have that adventure, so dunno.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
741 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  02:06:51  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
She does indeed view Hell as a prison of sorts, according to Ed - check The Hooded One's posts starting at the 12th of Feb 2015.

That post also provides some insight into the relationship between Tiamat, Bel, Zariel, and Asmodeus, which may help your ideas process Fendrikor.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Fendrikor
Learned Scribe

Australia
186 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  09:29:35  Show Profile Send Fendrikor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
mm... with that in mind.

Tiamat wants to be free of hell as much as Zariel wants her gone.

Bel wants Zariels position back in the hopes that he can absorb Zariels power.

So my question is this...

Volmer gives to the Aasimar a pact insideous - asking of her to have a priest of Tempus willingly remove a holy relic from the hall of battle lions altar in Dragonspear, then shed her own blood on it and say the words to open the portal to Avernus.

Thats essentially Dessecration.

Thing is i dont think Tempus would be against letting the Devils through into the material especially if they are coming to battle devils as War is his crucible.

Desecrating an Altar however, is that not a grounds for Damnation? Is it still Damnation if the God is apathetic?

Is alowing an army from Hell onto the material plane, for Goodly ends, a Sin? Especially if thousands of lords alliance soldiers and the Companions of Elturgardt would be spared massacre in pitched battle with Zariels Warhost?

Is it not the role of those who have the power of the gods (Paladins and Clerics) to march into battle with said power and face said evils / with heaven as a reward for their purity of sacrifice?

She doesnt grasp that Paladins and Clerics are meant to fight these evils, that is how the gods play their hand and their power on the material plane. She is hopeing that summoning the Bel's Warhost to challenge Zariels will ultimately save lives.

However i do not feel that any flirt with evil should be benign in its nature. There should be a cost, a payment for hells participation in the battle - and they only deal in souls.

Should the payment requested, be ultimately less than the lives the Devils presence in the final battle might save?

'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
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Fendrikor
Learned Scribe

Australia
186 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2017 :  09:29:36  Show Profile Send Fendrikor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
mm... with that in mind.

Tiamat wants to be free of hell as much as Zariel wants her gone.

Bel wants Zariels position back in the hopes that he can absorb Zariels power.

So my question is this...

Volmer gives to the Aasimar a pact insideous - asking of her to have a priest of Tempus willingly remove a holy relic from the hall of battle lions altar in Dragonspear, then shed her own blood on it and say the words to open the portal to Avernus.

Thats essentially Dessecration.

Thing is i dont think Tempus would be against letting the Devils through into the material especially if they are coming to battle devils as War is his crucible.

Desecrating an Altar however, is that not a grounds for Damnation? Is it still Damnation if the God is apathetic?

Is alowing an army from Hell onto the material plane, for Goodly ends, a Sin? Especially if thousands of lords alliance soldiers and the Companions of Elturgardt would be spared massacre in pitched battle with Zariels Warhost?

Is it not the role of those who have the power of the gods (Paladins and Clerics) to march into battle with said power and face said evils / with heaven as a reward for their purity of sacrifice?

She doesnt grasp that Paladins and Clerics are meant to fight these evils, that is how the gods play their hand and their power on the material plane. She is hopeing that summoning the Bel's Warhost to challenge Zariels will ultimately save lives.

However i do not feel that any flirt with evil should be benign in its nature. There should be a cost, a payment for hells participation in the battle - and they only deal in souls.

Should the payment requested, be ultimately less than the lives the Devils presence in the final battle might save?

'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

419 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2017 :  03:49:36  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tiamat has a position of honor in Baator, acting as the warden to Dis and the creator of the abishai. In return, she has the political backing of the baatezu. Presumably, she doesn't actually give a crap about Baatorian politics unless they specifically involve her.

I mean, there are gods who are bigger threats to Baator's stability; Set and Sekolah are locked in a war with Levistus for territory, and Mystra assaulted the Lord Below himself. Tiamat keeps her realm tidy, lends aid to the baatezu and otherwise minds her own business, what else could you want in a tenant?

I find the whole "Tiamat is imprisoned in Baator" to be a cumbersome plot point. Falazure actually lives in a prison plane, and he's there because he likes it. There are dozens of deities in Baator out of their own free will, I don't see why Tiamat is saddled with the baggage of being stuck in some Carceri-esque hellhole.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13845 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2017 :  06:29:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why not use that?

Tiamat DOES like it where she is. BUT... other people don't know that.

What if the whole things is some huge ploy to simply bring a fiendish army into the Realms? Like what happened with Hellgate Keep. Zariel and Bel may even be working together, pretending to want to bring Tiamat to Toril in order to trick the Aasimar into unleashing 'hell on earth'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Jul 2017 06:29:28
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Fendrikor
Learned Scribe

Australia
186 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2017 :  14:44:16  Show Profile Send Fendrikor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing that does come into this however is Bel's nature as an Archdevil. He doesnt actively seek to corrupt the souls of genuinly useful adventurers, though they may become corrupt over their time dealing with a him irregardless.

Corrupting her soul, while not unwelcome, is not as important as getting what he wants - humiliating and dominating Zariel in this instance. He couldnt care less if he got the soul, though he wouldnt refuse it if the opportunity came up to claim it.



'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

419 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2017 :  02:26:01  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bel is in a precarious position. He only has his job because of the Lord Below, and his fellow Lords don't like him much. On the other hand, he's a strategic and tactical genius, so what he really wants could be manyfold: ensuring that his fellow Lords see him as an indispensible asset to Baator's security, cementing his popularity among the rank and file baatezu and so on.
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