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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  04:26:44  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
regarding the planar layouts... the way I view it is that no one KNOWS the true layout (outside of the greatest of gods... and even that maybe not). They're all trying to use their own interpretation to fit to what they know. Its somewhat like if you ask a network engineer to explain subnetting, you'll get a difference answer from nearly every one... yet they all understand the core concept. The big difference here is that these sages don't know about everything. For instance, some might not know about wildspace and the phlogiston. Others may not know about certain outer planes. Some may assume that Faerie and the Feywild are separate, while others think they're the same. Some may think that the elemental plane of fire and the elemental chaos are just different portions of one plane, whereas others may think they're entirely separate.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  08:07:10  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats my take as well - no one version is correct, because mortal (and even non-mortal) minds can't comprehend 11-dimensional space, so its all interpreted into something our brains can understand. Thus, the best we can hope for is "sort of the truth".

Plus, I think mortal (and even non-mortal) preconceived ideas about how things are supposed to work - what religion calls 'dogma' - influences what is perceived, and therefore each individual is experiencing their own, slightly different version of reality (we each have our own 'private' reality). Now, people with the same beliefs, or with the same pantheon, or even the same world might have very similar notions, and thus can travel together without any problems - they all have the same basic structure in mind. Plus, when in groups, a 'common reality' can form, with all the members contributing what they think they are experiencing (so almost like the most amazingly realistic illusion you can imagine, so much so you have almost no chance of 'disbelieving' it). But when people with wildly different beliefs try to travel with each (like folk from different worlds), some may find barriers in-place for them, that their new-found friends can just pass right through (because they don't exist for those people), while others might be able to use a conduit/transitive plane/Gate to go from one place to another, that doesn't exist for other people they are traveling with. In this way, its very much like how the canon concept of 'keys' work for the planer gates - sometimes the right key is just having the correct set of beliefs.

So basically, all versions of a cosmology can co-exist, because none of it is really real, at least not in the physical sense we picture it as. Belief is a VERY powerful thing - it can even cause gods to fade from existence.

quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

Surrounding the outer planes are the realms of positive and negative energy.
So the Negative and Positive planes are back in 5e? They kinda-sorta merged the negative with shadow in 3e and I think 4e (it all having to do with undead, which is the only level on which that makes sense).

I may have to re-think my old cosmological model (based loosely on the Great Wheel). Break those 'solid' circles of elements into thousands of smaller motes floating in the Maelstrom Sea.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2017 16:46:30
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  23:43:52  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jumping in late, but here are my two cents (sorry if it's been said).

"Servitor" is the umbrella term for angels, archons, and other beings who serve the deities, whether it's retrieving souls from the Fugue Plane, delivering messages, or whatever else. I've seen the term "angel" used to describe servitors of both CG and LG deities, but there are "dark" angels, too. I have seen servitor used often.

The Empyrean Odyssey trilogy has angels/archons, and I know Demihuman Deities mentions a few.

Some souls "ascend" to being archons or some other celestial being, and others likely come from the various planes, after the deity has "earned" them. Or they could already be native to the realm the deity comes to rule.

I missed out on the earliest editions, and the lore all kind of blurs together for me with the earlier editions. I find the older editions (anything before 4e) much richer in lore, but I don't always know which is 2e and which is 3 or 3.5. I use the sourcebooks for lore reasons, and don't always pay attention to editions.

According to the FR wiki page, angels hailed from various celestial planes in the Astral Sea. They served the deities in the Dawn War, though not all of them remained in service. Angels are usually, but not always, good, and many of them have remained in service to the god they aided in the Dawn War.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 16 Feb 2017 00:15:54
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KanzenAU
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Australia
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Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  00:50:58  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

So the Negative and Positive planes are back in 3e? They kinda-sorta merged the negative with shadow in 3e and I think 4e (it all having to do with undead, which is the only level on which that makes sense).

I may have to re-think my old cosmological model (based loosely on the Great Wheel). Break those 'solid' circles of elements into thousands of smaller motes floating in the Maelstrom Sea.


This is from the 5e Player's Handbook:
quote:
Like a dome above the other planes, the Positive Plane is the source of radiant energy and the raw life force that suffuses all living beings, from the puny to the sublime. Its dark reflection is the Negative Plane, the source of necrotic energy that destroys the living and animates the undead.

There's a pic in the book (that I can't seem to find on the net) that shows those plans as a sphere enclosing everything else.

Corellon's Devout, that quote from the FR wiki is actually the 4e "any alignment" interpretation - you can tell by the fact they're talking about the Dawn War. 4e makes it even more complex by making archons native to the Elemental Chaos - unnecessarily complex.

I've now read most of the Planescape Campaign Setting, and I still don't really seem to grok the whole servitors thing. There's proxies, but they seem to be regular folks and planars rather than angels. The good planar powers seem to be able to recruit different type of aasimon (Planescape's word for angels?), but they don't auto-get them. The good powers may also get powerful beings like archons (LG), eladrin (CG), and guardinals (NG) as their servitors.

Bane then might use devils, Shar might use yugoloths, and Beshaba might use demons. Lawful neutral powers like Helm might use inevitables or modrons.

As for the powers of Limbo (CN), there don't seem to be too many major servitors, but that's not necessarily a problem, as I think the only power there is Fenmarel since Tempus moved shop. Fenmarel also has access to Arvandor, so he's probably ok for eladrin.

Most of the True Neutral powers end up in the Outlands (eg. Silvanus, Dumathoin) - maybe their most powerful servitors might be Rilmani?

I guess, from what Markustay said earlier, it seems like Team Good gets more powerful toys, but Team Evil gets more of them. Team Neutral do still seem to get the short end of the stick in this regard (no super-powered aasimon, no endless supply of demons). I still don't really get it, but hopefully that will come with more reading. Unless someone can supply some clarification for my searching mind...

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  01:16:15  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the clarification. I'm familiar with 4e, but not necessarily when something is a new concept in 4e, except for the obvious, like the Spellplague (and I am not very familiar with the Planescape setting).

The gods and their realms are one of my favorite aspects of the Realms, but I never really thought about who gets angels and who doesn't. Now you have me curious, too. I don't know how helpful this is, but I found this in Book of Exalted Deeds. I realize it is D&D, and not FR, so some things may not apply, but I found it interesting, nonetheless. I think you're right about Fenmarel. Since he has access to Arvandor, even if he spends most of his time in Limbo, he would also have access to Arvandor's servitors (like eladrin).

"The Upper Planes are the home of all that is good, the Outer Planes on which righteousness and justice flourish. On these planes, the lawful good archons, neutral good guardinals, chaotic good eladrins, and angels (devas, planetars, and solars) make their homes...In the D&D cosmology, the Upper Planes include Arcadia, Celestia, Bytopia, Elysium, the Beastlands, Arborea, and Ysgard...How celestials define, understand, and embody the concept of good varies from one to the next. While and archon's understanding is shaped by her adherence to the principles of law, an eladrin's is equally shaped by his chaotic viewpoint. The guardinals may claim to represent pure good untainted by concerns of law and chaos, but many would argue that their very commitment to neutrality undermines their goodness." (pg 123-4).

Again, not sure if that is helpful, especially because it isn't FR, but I wanted to share. As for Team Neutral, I think it would depend on the deity. Most, if not all deities get "servants" who will defend their realm, fetch souls, deliver messages, etc., which is why I prefer the term servitor (though I like angels) since there are so many varieties of celestials.

Sweet water and light laughter
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KanzenAU
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Australia
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Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  13:21:42  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think we're getting somewhere, but I think it's significant that no one really knows straight away what kind of servitors neutral deities would get. Angels, archons, solars, guardinals, eladrin, devils, demons, yugoloths - all these things scream their alignment. I get modrons and inevitables for LN...kind of, I'm more of a "Nirvana" man than a "Mechanus" man, I'm not a huge fan of LN being entirely mechanical. True Neutral is where I have the most difficulty, as they're not going to be served by the good or the evil servitors. Rilmani is the best thing I can think of, but it just doesn't feel right for deities as diverse as Silvanus and Gond. Are there any cool neutral servitors out there that scream badass?

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  13:48:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Who says neutral guys have to have their own. Couldn't they be served by both good and evil at times if need be?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  16:36:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Who says neutral guys have to have their own. Couldn't they be served by both good and evil at times if need be?

Thats my thinking as well.

There could be neutral outsiders (and are), but I would think 'Neutral' deities would just use the best agent for the job at hand.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
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Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  17:14:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

Corellon's Devout, that quote from the FR wiki is actually the 4e "any alignment" interpretation - you can tell by the fact they're talking about the Dawn War. 4e makes it even more complex by making archons native to the Elemental Chaos - unnecessarily complex.

This has to do with what they did with demons in 4e - demons became corrupted elementals (which is kind of cool in its own way, but goes against previous lore).

The sad thing about all that is that it appears they shoe-horned the CG's into the Maelstrom as well, to sort-of balance things out, but back when 4e was introduced, one of their main 'selling points' for the new edition was that they "eliminated unnecessary redundancy", and 'the need for balancing everything against its opposite' (hence the almost complete destruction of the former planer model). They were actually trying to sell the virtues of having things NOT balanced... and then balanced the f*** out of everything after they made their sweeping changes (so much so, in fact, that every class played pretty much the same).

On the other hand, I like the concepts of 'taint' (evil) and 'corruption' (chaos), and I would love to see those things better integrated into the rules/setting(s) and planer/cosmological model. In that regard, I think 4e had some rather interesting ideas, I just don't think they were up to the job of making them work (in regards to past lore, AND be consistent within itself).

For example, very large pockets of either (taint & corruption) can exist within the maelstrom (and elsewhere), and these pockets are what created a lot of the run-of-the-mill fiends. I like that. But I also like that the higher-ups all came from somewhere else (like the theory that the 'loths created the Tanar'ri, or the way that the the archdevils were 'fallen angels'). I also like how you can still keep one the coolest concepts from earlier editions (mostly 2e) - that when a region of the multiverse (however small or large) becomes 'too much' like a particular alignment, its start to 'slip' into the corresponding plane (or in the case of very strong or very large areas, become a 'new realm' within the universe, starting-out as a pocket plane and perhaps growing larger {and stronger} over time, may be even becoming full planes in their own right after eons).

All that works well within my 'lava lamp' model of all things cosmic (both the planes, and 'the gods'). Things break-apart, reform, and sometimes come back together, and sometimes merge with other stuff and create something new - its all very fluid. For example, its possible that all the layers of the Abyss started out as extremely large regions of corruption in the Maelstrom. Then, when the 'machine' that is the Great Wheel was built, it 'formalized' everything into a very lawful, set layout (which, when you apply all of my other theories, is really all just a matter of perception anyway). All those vast regions got shuffled into what is now the Abyss. The largest pieces of 'taint' became the Nine Hells, etc.

And WOW... I just got a picture in my head... the MOST controversial theory I've come up with regarding the nature of the multiverse. I think I may know why the Great Wheel was built - what its purpose is. I think I just stepped off a precipice and took 'grimdark' to a whole 'nother level.

I have to check the Planescape sources regarding the factions - see if there is anything already like it.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2017 17:19:42
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sleyvas
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Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  03:06:11  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

Corellon's Devout, that quote from the FR wiki is actually the 4e "any alignment" interpretation - you can tell by the fact they're talking about the Dawn War. 4e makes it even more complex by making archons native to the Elemental Chaos - unnecessarily complex.

This has to do with what they did with demons in 4e - demons became corrupted elementals (which is kind of cool in its own way, but goes against previous lore).




Hmmm, so Archons also went to the elemental chaos and demons were corrupted elementals.... that idea of tasked genies getting "stolen" and turned into servants of the gods that then pisses off the primordials and kicks off the dawn war between outer planar entities and inner planar entities actually sounds more and more viable. Makes me also wonder if the "separation" of the outer planes and inner planes didn't come about until AFTER the dawn war as lines were drawn in the multiverse's sand. This adds even more of an interesting nature when considered that some gods are prime material bound (or what the Mulhorandi would term "manifestations").

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Quale
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Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  19:32:09  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
neutral and evil gods create outsiders unique to them, for example Jergal has jerul devils, Cyric black beasts of bedlam, Shar umbral glooms, Gargauth the vahgazu, Lolth yochlol (sp?) demons, Kelemvor something like the psychopomps from Pathfinder, Garagos windblades, Set minions of Set, Ilsensine eaters of knowledge, Tiamat abishai, and so on
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Wrigley
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Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  21:02:33  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even if some gods do not have their minions written already doesn't mean they do not have some. There is a lot of space for DM's to create them so they will be unique for their understanding of the god in question. You could either look in MM's for fitting creature/planar or you could make one from scratch. For chaotic gods you can even say that everyone of their minions are different only with common theme for the god.

Yochol's are originaly Ghaunadaur's imho. It seems he let her uses them as part of their deal.
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LordofBones
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Posted - 18 Feb 2017 :  05:22:26  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The celestial and fiendish races probably have compacts with equivalent deities, but it's just as likely that deities have their own unique servitors, like the Heralds from Pathfinder.

Except Cyric, but that's because nobody likes him.

Offhand, you could import the psychopomps and reapers in as servitors unique to Myrkul and Kelemvor, or at least are favorably disposed to wards those deities, Talos favors destructive and evil proteans, Jergal is served by unique psychopomps and reapers, Velsharoon probably allows arcanoloths access to the libraries of his domain in exchange for their service, etc.

Edited by - LordofBones on 18 Feb 2017 05:26:07
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  02:23:31  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do agree that each god has their own form or servitors, and, depending on the deity, some servitors may look more "angelic" than others. I think servitors who retrieve souls and take them to whatever afterlife awaits them should resemble the domain of the deity they serve. This could mean that the evil gods have more "fiendish" looking servitors, but this doesn't have to be the case. For instance, I can see Cyric having "dark angels" (Fallen?).


Sweet water and light laughter
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  03:18:09  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Resurrecting this thread briefly because I finally got my hands on Player's Guide to Faerun (I only recently learned it contained info on the planes, otherwise I would have gotten it sooner). I found this on the celestials of Arvandor:

"The celestial realms of Arvandor and the Gates of the Moon are the only twork planes where the elflike eladrins dwell in significant numbers. The eladrins of Arvandor are not servants of the elven pantheon, though they respect the elf deities and generally cooperate with them in everyday matters as well as urgent ones. But when the elf deities require powerful servants to travel to other planes, they usually call upon angels rather than eladrins, so all varieties of angels dwell there as well." (Pg 143).


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Markustay
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Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  17:19:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm extremely bust RW ATM, so I can't put a lot of thought into this {did I just hear a collective sigh f relief?}

Here's the bare-bones version of a concept I've been rolling around inside my head for quite some time: 'Created Outsiders'* are made from Plane-stuff. In the first world, this didn't have much meaning, because I only picture three main divisions there (much like the Norse cosmology) - you had a flat 'Prime Material Plane' ("The World"), you have a place 'above' where gods chilled, and you had something 'beneath' (think of it like the grimy underbelly of the universe, where all the infrastructure is run, like in a RW city).

AFTER the Godwar (Dawn War, whatever) we have the Great Wheel, and the 'firmament' is divided among a whole bunch of planes. Now control of those planes matters, because now you can only get certain kinds of 'servitors' from certain places.

In the first world, as the need arose for certain kinds of 'servants', the world/plane spawned them automatically, in whatever numbers were needed (picture something like the gazilliion Jango Fetts from the Clone Wars). The planes still do this, but now you can only get ones that are appropriate to the plane you're on (so even if you are LG God in Hell, you aren't 'calling up' any angels). This is part of the 'home turf advantage' gods have.

As I said, this process is mostly automated, but a god CAN call forth a specialized servitor, and even have it be more powerful (things like archangels). These would be named, and have specific tasks, and most would be unique (or only in very small numbers assigned just to that one god, like Lolth's handmaidens). Through the natural process of the universe, all of these beings - like like mortals - can 'level', if given the opportunity to advance, so a relatively unknown angel or demon (or whatever) can become quite powerful over time. Asmodeus is THE prime example of this (although he most certainly started out unique to begin with).

I also picture this class of being having a very rough shape when formed naturally at low levels, like the Lemure of hell, or the basic elementals of the elemental planes. Something from the higher planes might be a bit 'prettier', like a ball of light and sparkles, but mostly, unformed. The higher the 'level' of the creature, the more defined t becomes, first becoming more like some of the known groups of outsiders (different types of fiends and celestials, etc), and eventually, if high enough, will develop features unique to them - all part of a natural process of the universe (and could have something to do with the emerging 'persona' of the being, as it develops self-will over time).

So basically, I picture this entire category of beings - created, not 'born' - as types of elementals associated with their alignments. Thus, genies would just be the unique, 'more refined' versions of elementals (the 'aristocracy' of the plane). Also, a being could go against its 'core essence' (starting alignment) eventually, but this is far more likely to happen in the case of 'born' outsiders (like Asmodeus' daughter Glaysa) than it would in ones that appeared fully formed out of the planestuff (and still extremely rare, if not unheard of). 'Born' beings automatically come with 'free will', even if they are predisposed to a certain alignment. So if you grow up in hell, you could become 'Little Nicky', but it would have had to be a very bizarre set of circumstances for your surroundings to not have had that much affect on you.



*I like the idea of calling this type 'Servitors', which would include all outsiders not 'born' in natural. mortal way in non-Prime Material planes. This would include all type of celestials and fiends, as well as things like elementals. the problem I have always had with the term 'outsider' is that it includes all the beings that actually live in the planes, like normal people. D&D made this mistake way back when - EVERYTHING in 'the planes' should have been DEAD, or 'created'. Anything 'born' in the planes should be a half-mortal, because 'created' beings should NOT be able to procreate in the normal fashion... but I suppose its too late to correct all that now. I guess Gygax & co. didn't want all the 'ickyness' of demons dragging off mortal women to hell to breed with.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Mar 2017 22:28:20
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Gyor
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Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  03:10:56  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote

In 5e Angels are discribed as being Lawful Good and that even Angels in service to Chaotic Good Gods are Lawful Good basically because even Chaotic deities need someone who knows how to take orders and follow them.

They're made of the Astral Essence of a God directly, which almost makes them mini angelic avatars of deities.

They can't follow any orders that are evil or chaotic which makes things hard for a Chaotic Good deity, but when you realize that no law is higher then that of an Angel's God/dess that introduces some flexibility to an Angel.

So the Angel can't break their word or disobey their God without falling, because that would be Chaotic, but they can disobey local mortal laws, although their nature will likely lead them to avoiding it where possible, because there God's word is the higher law and higher laws trump lower laws.

Like how the constitution of a nation trumps individual laws passed by legislatures, and can invalidate them, higher laws trump lower laws.

I think the hierarchy of laws for angels is this universal objective truths about law and good (which still leave a lot of grey areas), then their God's Word, then lesser mortal laws and individual acts of kindness.

But I think even a God's word has limits in how much they can twist and Angels Lawful Good Nature. A God can't demand an Angel mass murder innocence, destroying all mortal laws in a good kingdom causing chaos in the mortal realm, because the Angel can't follow evil or chaotic commands.

Also it directly says that Angels are divine, not just servants of the Divine, which makes sense if they are directly made from their God/dess's own essence. In that way dispite the somewhat Judeochristian look, actually makes them closer in nature lesser Hindu Gods in nature.They even call the weaker ones Devas.

Of course any major job that a Chaotic God needs done that is too Chaotic for a angel, a Empyrean Titan will do, Empyreans have far more free will then other types of Celestials, so instead of using angels which are usually pieces of themselves made a automas, they use their none God, but still Divine Children, Empyrean Titan Children.

Archons in some cases will also serve Lawful Good Gods as well (not mentioned in 5e yet), but Elderin will ally in some cases with a Chaotic Good Gods, but they usually don't serve them, too independant minded. Guardianals I'm not sure. Possibly.

As for evil Gods, many of them have special individual servants. Lloth has the Yochels, Ghaunder has his own slimy fiendish servants, I forget what they are called, ect...

Evil Servants of Deities tend to be more individual races, because the small handful of space devoted to celestials has serve a wide variety of gods, but because the servants of evil gods are stuff for PCs to fight, they is alot more space for variety.

Devils, Yugoloths, and even occasionally regular demons, can and are bribed or bullied into the service of various evil gods, but many evil Gods have special unique races in their service.

For a more universal servant of evil Gods, I'd use Succubi, completely free agent in 5e who are their own species of fiend now, who will serve pretty much any evil more powerful then themselves, including evil Gods, Devils, Yugoloths, Rakasha, Night Hags, and Fallen Angels who miss a divine connection, but wish to get revenge on the Good Gods that banished them from Paradises.

Nuetral Gods are where it gets tricky, Modrons don't serve gods, at least not normally. Slaadi are too Chaotic usually for none Slaad Lords to control.

I'll have to think on how services Neutral Gods. Maruts perhaps. Powerful mortal souls?




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Gyor
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Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  03:14:49  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Mulhorand Pantheon also traditionally had Divine Servitors, Mortals and Outsiders who we're turned into special celestial or fiendish servants of the Gods of the Mulhorandi Pantheon.
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Gyor
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Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  03:22:48  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also Primdorials like Kossuth will likely use various Elementals as servants instead of "outsiders".
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  03:48:06  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What 5e source did you read about the angels? If possible, I want t get it lol.

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Markustay
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Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  06:19:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Nuetral Gods are where it gets tricky, Modrons don't serve gods, at least not normally. Slaadi are too Chaotic usually for none Slaad Lords to control.

I'll have to think on how services Neutral Gods. Maruts perhaps. Powerful mortal souls?
'The giants in gray' in Kara-Tur seem to fit that bill, although their precise nature is never revealed (they are more like 'The Watcher' from Marvel Comics).

I don't think a neutral deity would have 'armies' of servitors - maybe one or two personal 'lieutenant' types, and then they would 'contract' with whatever type of outsider they would need, depending on the situation (sometimes angels, sometimes demons, and probably elementals/genies a lot). They'd be more inclined to 'maintain the balance', and thus, whenever they become aware of imbalance, they would just notify the deities on the opposite end of the spectrum - they'd rarely need to act on their own. They're whole 'gig' is to keep watch over everything, and keep all sides in equilibrium, and do whatever it takes to achieve that. I would hazard to guess the 'Blood War' is their greatest masterpiece.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Mar 2017 20:01:09
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5246 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  13:20:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Also Primdorials like Kossuth will likely use various Elementals as servants instead of "outsiders".



I see Kossuth having task genies and elemental myrmidons as the majority of his personal servants. Not to mention things like salamanders, efreeti, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
418 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2017 :  12:49:35  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have found a neutral version of planar servant similar to angels and demons. They are from Planescape Monster Manual Appendix II and they are called Rilmani.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1009 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2017 :  23:23:22  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

What 5e source did you read about the angels? If possible, I want t get it lol.



The Monster Manuel under Angels, the part before they delve into specific types of angels.
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