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mastermustard
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 08:42:15
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The Realms, and D&D in general, is in a slump right now. Do you think things will pick up again, or that things will ever be like they were in the 'good old days'?
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 13:45:36
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| As much as I'd like to see it do so, I don't think the Realms will ever fully recover. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 15:38:21
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| As long as WotC is driving and remains shackled by Hasbro, we'll never get back to the Silver Age of 3E, much less the Golden Age of 2E. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 18:03:59
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I have to agree with Wooly here. I really enjoyed the end of the Golden/Beginning of the Silver age for the 'Realms, and it's where I sit solidly when I run games in the 'Realms.
So, using the comic book "age" references:
1e: The time before the Golden Age ("Time before Time")
2e: The Golden Age
3.x: The Silver Age
4e: The Bronze Age
5e: The Iron Age, attempt to reboot to the Silver Age.
Given that we have 10+ and 20+ years to go, a full reboot would not be out of the question in 20 years. Although in 10 years, I guess we'll have to find another metal, perhaps Magnesium (so it all burns with a fiery death), before it's rebirth in 20 years. I hope that path is not taken, but it is a possibility. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 20:21:23
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I'm in agreement with Wooly. D&D and FR are never going to be as profitable as Hasbro would like it to be because it appeals to a niche market--and the hobby will ALWAYS be a niche market. Being a niche market is not a bad thing, but it requires a company to be content with working with low-profit margins. WotC obviously has some potential to license out their IP's for things like video games, which gives them a competitive edge over other companies in the market.
Honestly, if WotC could cut ties from Hasbro, I could easily imagine core FR and D&D products finding funding through Kickstarter campaigns. So long as they delivered what they promised and quality remained high, it is hard to imagine that any project WotC put forward not getting funding. I really do feel that crowdfunding is the future of the hobby--not the top down corporate structure that WotC finds itself trapped in with Hasbro. Tabletop gaming is all about the community, and the community itself has displayed--for other projects--that it is more than willing to fund them if the desire for the product is there. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 20:50:31
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'It Depends'.
The DM's guild is a great way to rebuild the fanbase, because you invite people to 'join in', and everybody wants to try their creative side. I think therein lies the hope...
But its a two-edged sword (isn't everything in business?) If we get swamped with mediocre (at best) material that is contradictory (18 different versions of Netheril, etc), it will die a slow, painful death.
On the other hand, if a group - say TEGG - were to approach it more professionally, with well put-together products that continued the Realms in the 2e/3e vein, and by some of the designers we've grown to love over the years, then I CAN see it make a come back... easily.
Paizo/Pathfinder has dropped its fiction from its AP's, and I think that may have been a mistake. Not so much for them overall, but their current crop of fans are split, whether they realize it or not. They are split the same way FR fans were - setting fans, and gamers. Normally, the two groups can coexist peacefully... until one starts to get 'the upper-hand' on the other (causing resentment).
D&D itself has been pulling some of its gaming fans back to my surprise, which is excellent. Without those, we wouldn't have the foundation on which to build the rest. However, their setting-fans are disgruntled in that they are starting to get ignored in favor of the 'gamers' (like when they dropped their AP fiction), and I've personally encountered quite a few (way back in 2012!) that were 'looking elsewhere' for their fantasy-fix. The Forgotten Realms could be that fix. Many of those young people only heard of the Realms, and never got to experience it first-hand... only heard the grumblings of unhappy grognards (and honestly, how the hell is all our belly-aching ever going to rejuvenate the setting with 'new blood'?!)
So you got people coming back to D&D in droves, and you got a large swath of somewhat-dissatisfied fantasy aficionados looking for something 'new'. The timing is almost perfect (a year ago may have been perfect), and we have the right people affiliated with the right company (one run by the actual creator of FR!) And they can do something that Hasbro won't - be willing to lose some money (manpower/time, actually) up-front to rebuild The Realms into something worthwhile again, so that the profits will start coming in down the road (corporations DO NOT CARE about anything beyond 'the next quarter').
So there you have it. It CAN be done, and we can have some semblance of the 'glory days' of FR back, but it all depends on how much Ed and Co. want to commit to The Forgotten Realms - a commitment that would mean dialing back their own, personal plans. Its a tough call - either road is 'shaky' - something new you own out-right, or something that could be great again, but that others own the rights to. I guess it all comes down to LOVE.
How much do THEY love the Realms? Enough to put most of their eggs back into the same basket (and a basket thats owned by another that has shown little regard for their own IP?) Love... and how well their current two lines are doing.
I wouldn't know. 
I also wouldn't want to be in their shoes. And if any of those involved over there are reading this, all I want to say is 'Steve Jobs'. He put his differences aside and went back to Apple, and they went from borderline bankruptcy to becoming great all over again. Thus, it could happen. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jan 2017 20:54:46 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7975 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 21:05:50
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The Realms we grew up with are gone. WotC now is very different from what WotC used to be, TSR and Gygax are lost legacies, Ed and RAS are just branded and commercialized niche commodities. The trend started two decades ago, and unfalteringly held on course, I think it's unrealistic to expect it to suddenly veer towards massively popular and profitable success. The only real constant we can bank on is WotC's desire to sell books, and it's harder for them to do this every time they chop creative designers/authors off their staff. WotC is also horribly lacking in tech-savvy, still paranoid about pirates and hackers, they can hardly manage to even keep their own website online in an age where computer and mobile gaming is a clearly dominant, evolving, multi-billion-dollar industry which is almost irresistable for tabletop RPG players to buy into.
Where will the Realms and D&D be in upcoming decades? Perhaps sitting somewhere around 7E or 8E, yet another iteration which attempts to strip down, distill, recapture, and reinvent the most profitable components of an old glory. Perhaps bankrupted and extinguished, languishing indefinitely in Hasbro's brand dungeons, driving the most avid fans underground, awaiting a promise of re-release as some sort of video game for our grandchildren.
Wizbro is always in a bit of a tricky position with this. Rebuild the old or forge ahead with the new? Realmslore is stilted and archaic, stuffy, a deeply cumbersome (and often inconsistent) mountain of lore which intimidates casual players and scares away new ones. While attempts to reformat and "start fresh" are met with stiff resistance from "serious" players. And competitor offerings (not to mention video games) constantly grow in quantity and quality, it's only a matter of time before disenchanted players move on to something better (and cheaper). |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Jan 2017 21:10:03 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 : 21:57:46
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Speaking on the book front.... I gotta say.... their marketing team sucks. I had never really read the Erin Evans books about Farideh, because I've been doing about a bajillion other things since 2008. I still haven't read the first two, but I at least have the second (I started on the third). I'm on Ashes of the Tyrant right now, and I gotta say they're pretty good. I also recently bought a bunch of the 4th edition books and late 3rd edition books which I'd never read. I think part of the problem is that a lot of us have gotten older, have wives, kids, etc... and so the amount of time we can devote to gaming is about 1/3 or less what we could years ago. Meanwhile, the youngsters of this day and age ARE actually interested in 5th edition (at least what I've seen in Mississippi and Louisiana). I was surprised to find the amount of interest, as I thought it was just us old grognards. The problem being a lot of them don't have the guidance we had, and I've sat in on a few games with young folks. They're cheerfully amazed at how much I enjoy getting into my character (whatever the character is), and it becomes infectious. I'm also surprised that amongst the young folks, its almost half women (usually because their boyfriends want to play, but they support them enough to join in the games).
So, what I envision happening is possibly, these young folk get tired of these 1st person shooter games and WANT something more freeform, and some kind of rebirth in roleplaying games happens. BUT whatever game they stick to will need technological aides. They don't WANT to waste time hand making a character sheet, but they will spend hours playing with a character sheet program that figures out how many feats, skills, special abilities, etc... they have left. They also will spend the time to paint a miniature, because that's seen as fun, but they'll probably want to design their mini and have it 3d printed over doggedly digging through shelves of minis and buying them only to never paint them... and some may be willing to pay for them to come professionally painted if they can pick the colors... and when it comes to drudge minis like a horde of goblins, they'll probably gleefully pay for a box of prepainted plastic ones . |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7975 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 01:54:15
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Agreed, from what I've seen, today's young RPG crowd mostly starts at 5E. They're idealistic and (by my epic, profoundly wise, sagely, greybeard standards) they're woefully naive. They believe WotC is awesome, they buy every bit of D&D and Realmslore they see on the shelves, they religiously adhere most strictly to All Things Canon. Always interested in old Realmslore, though it's too weird and involved and outdated. The old lore is also (by their standards) too "childish", simple, and unsophisticated. We used to think a good-aligned renegade drow ranger was epic and extreme, they think a party of 4E-styled circus folk (with the magic of 3E-styled powergamers and the steel of 2E-styled technologists) as rather typical fare. Not for me (or my stuffy old grognard buddies), but more power to them!
The problem is that they don't have the guidance we had? We had no guidance, I don't think they need any - and, lol, I doubt they'd want to listen too it anyways. But as you say, sleyvas, examples can be infectious.
No females at our games, back in the day, lol. Spilling a fancy little bag full of pretty polyhedral dice onto the table would scare them off every time. I think a lot of the crossover comes from females today growing up with video games. I doubt D&D will ever be "cool" in the mainstream sense, but at least it's doesn't evoke derision like it did when I played it. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 01:59:19
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in 10 years. dying out
in 20 years dead both the FR and dnd.
it will be all Paizo and PAthfidner, starfinder and star wars |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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EltonRobb
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 02:34:59
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Speaking on the book front.... I gotta say.... their marketing team sucks.
The Marketing Team of WotC has always sucked. So, I have to agree there. I don't really see a future for the Realms or anything else D&D related until WotC's marketing team can get their heads out of the sand and do some real marketing. |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 03:34:14
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I'd say D&D is in great form. Sales and such seem to be very good. During the days of 4e every time I would go into a store asking about D&D someone would try to sell me Pathfinder, but that era has well passed. 5th ed seems to top the in-store marketing, the Roll20 usercharts, etc. I'd say D&D as a brand is fine. That said, if you want it to be what it was in the past, it won't be.
The Realms is a very different situation. For those in love with the old Realms, it's not the same now, and hasn't been for a while, and is unlikely to ever be again (as far as new releases are concerned). The new stuff is trying to recapture a lot of the old feel, but they're also doing that with a new take for a new generation. It won't be what it was in your youth again, that time has passed - for better or worse. You can roll with the changes or stick to the old stuff. The beauty of pen and paper is that you can play forever in 1356 with 1e rules if you really want "the good old days". But I don't think the designers are working to remake the Realms of 2e for the old guard - it's a new Realms with new realities.
As far as the novels go... I'm not optimistic about a bright future for them unless the Realms becomes more bankable, either through a quality campaign guide or a great movie. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 05:11:16
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1. Switch to Paizo.
2. Hope they one day buy the FR license.
3. However they have stated they will never do anything else than their own world they have themselves created.
4. So hope for something else, and go back to Step 1. |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 06:26:50
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| How does White Wolf measure up as an RPG company? I'm familiar with them via their Eternal Champion omnibuses, but see they've got a lot of RPGs to their name, like The Blood, the Rage and dark fantasy type stuff that oozes 90's goodness. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 08:36:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
1. Switch to Paizo.
2. Hope they one day buy the FR license.
3. However they have stated they will never do anything else than their own world they have themselves created.
4. So hope for something else, and go back to Step 1.
yeah dont see #2 happening less Hasbro says you are the weakest link goodbye. all proguction stops. year goes by, my Greenwood gets all rights to it back. save drizzt, they can gate him to another world and make use of him there.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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EltonRobb
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 15:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
1. Switch to Paizo.
2. Hope they one day buy the FR license.
3. However they have stated they will never do anything else than their own world they have themselves created.
4. So hope for something else, and go back to Step 1.
I don't think they will buy the FR license, so everyone's in the same boat. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 16:05:30
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For those singing Paizo's virtues - just NOPE.*
I loved everything they did a couple years back, but they're staring to follow the same pattern that TSR did. Its only a matter of time before they stumble...
And when they do, their 'fans' will start leaving in droves for 'greener pastures', just as D&D had a mass exodus with each new edition (and tons of new games/settings became available). Don't get me wrong - as I said, I loved what they did (at first), but its all starting to look a bit cookie-cutter, with endless splat books that add-on tons of clunky new rules (and monsters galore, which merely generate the 'illusion' that each adventure is "something new & different"). The more things change, the more they stay the same. Its only a matter of time.
The idea isn't to follow Paizo (who followed WotC), but to take FR and rebrand it as "the next great thing". WotC won't do that (unless they actually manage to produce a decent D&D movie), because they are unwilling to commit the necessary resources to really market the hell out of it. Thats why I say, if its going to rise again, it has to do so through the independent energies of others, like the people at TEGG. If a brand can latch onto the DM's guild and create a cohesive set of NEW lore for FR, it could work.
Maybe I should re-apply at TEGG as their 'marketing guy' LOL. You now what I would do? I would create a bunch of stories combined with rules, and then brand it all 'mature content only' (with an advisory against anyone under 18).
Then watch all those little munchkins illegally download bazillions of pirated copies of the thing they were told they can't have. 
Kids are EASY to manipulate. Get them to think you've got something so cool they can't even look at it, and you'll make them nuts. And if you could incite a few 'church groups' to speak out against you, and declare what you're doing 'ebil!", then you're GOLDEN. Perhaps send the Pope a D&D/FR book entitled, "The Complete Guide to Summoning Demons". 
*EDIT: Plus, Paizo wouldn't want it. Erik Mona has already said he is very glad he no longer has to publish Dragon Magazine, which was a lot of trouble for very little pay-off. They have no interest in developing multiple settings; if they do that, then they'd truly be following TSR's path to ruination (fracturing your own fanbase). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Jan 2017 16:09:20 |
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EltonRobb
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 16:53:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
*EDIT: Plus, Paizo wouldn't want it. Erik Mona has already said he is very glad he no longer has to publish Dragon Magazine, which was a lot of trouble for very little pay-off. They have no interest in developing multiple settings; if they do that, then they'd truly be following TSR's path to ruination (fracturing your own fanbase).
Erik knows what he's talking about. He learned what happened to TSR, inc. and he's not repeating it again. Paizo doesn't want FR, and that's a good thing.
If anything happens to WotC, all the rights to FR reverts to Ed Greenwood. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 16:54:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
How does White Wolf measure up as an RPG company? I'm familiar with them via their Eternal Champion omnibuses, but see they've got a lot of RPGs to their name, like The Blood, the Rage and dark fantasy type stuff that oozes 90's goodness.
The old White Wolf died long ago, but Onyx Path bought some of their IPs, and Licienced others like the World of Darkness and what's called the Chronicles of Darkness, Scion, Scarred Lands, Trinity.
The old White Wolf left overs got sold to a Dutch Company recently, who created a company to manage it called White Wolf so arguably it's been reborn, but this white wolf hasn't really produced anything yet, all the work is still being done by Onyx Path. The biggest influence so far is that the new White Wolf pushed to have New World of Darkness renamed to Chronicles of Darkness to avoid confusion with the Old World of Darkness. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 16:59:21
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I've actually suggested Onyx Path licence FR, they have experience liciencing other companies IPs and making good products with it.
And now that they've done 5e Scarred Lands, they have some experience with the 5e rules. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 18:40:18
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I would ONLY want FR's future developed by personages who are already EXPERTS on FR.
There is simply too much information there (over 70% of which as never been seen by 'fans') for ANY company (other than TEGG, because of who runs it) to 'do it properly'.
Anything less would simply be 4e 2.0. I don't want a 'NEW Realms' - I want a continuation of the OLD Realms.
And what I REALLY want is for them to develop material in the 'Lost Century' (it had a canonical name - 'years of mourning', or some-such), with 5e rules. Now that would be SWEET. I still don't understand why nearly no-one but me can see the potential in that: You get to cherry-pick what you want from EVERY edition, without contradicting anything.
A canonical century without canon, except for a truly magnificent foundation of 'what has gone before'. - it doesn't really get better than that to create in. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Jan 2017 18:45:22 |
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mastermustard
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 20:24:12
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There's a lot of optimism in this thread. I'm glad that greater minds than mine are expecting a better outcome in this case. My experience with D&D has mainly been through novels, and I began reading them at a very young age. They formed the foundation of my creative development as a child, and getting lost in the Realms was my favorite pastime as a teen. As an adult, D&D is still very dear to me and I really want to see it stick around even if I don't have as much free time as I used to.
I do hope the property ends up being 'go-fund-me' or 'kickstarter'd. I would pour tens of thousands into it without hesitation if it would mean greater novel output. |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 20:40:27
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Just today I was in a bookstore and pondering this very question.
20 years ago there was an abundance of TSR books from a variety of settings - Darksun, Ravenloft, and a huge amount of Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms products.
10 years ago the smaller, niche settings were gone, there was a small handful of leftover Dragonlance books, and still a decent quantity of FR stuff.
Today, DL has gone the way of the rest, and now there are about 10 FR titles spread amongst a sea of other properties - basically there was one Evans book, one Greenwood, and about 8 Salvatores.
10 years from now you will not see a D&D book anywhere but on the internet. The settings themselves, which have decades of lore and development behind every one of them, will be relics hung on to at small forums that dwindle away each successive year. It's terribly sad to me, I grew up "living" in worlds like Athas, Krynn, Barovia, etc. Now they are all but extinct, and all that magnificent work will be lost on the next generation. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2017 : 22:02:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Agreed, from what I've seen, today's young RPG crowd mostly starts at 5E. They're idealistic and (by my epic, profoundly wise, sagely, greybeard standards) they're woefully naive. They believe WotC is awesome, they buy every bit of D&D and Realmslore they see on the shelves, they religiously adhere most strictly to All Things Canon. Always interested in old Realmslore, though it's too weird and involved and outdated. The old lore is also (by their standards) too "childish", simple, and unsophisticated. We used to think a good-aligned renegade drow ranger was epic and extreme, they think a party of 4E-styled circus folk (with the magic of 3E-styled powergamers and the steel of 2E-styled technologists) as rather typical fare. Not for me (or my stuffy old grognard buddies), but more power to them!
The problem is that they don't have the guidance we had? We had no guidance, I don't think they need any - and, lol, I doubt they'd want to listen too it anyways. But as you say, sleyvas, examples can be infectious.
No females at our games, back in the day, lol. Spilling a fancy little bag full of pretty polyhedral dice onto the table would scare them off every time. I think a lot of the crossover comes from females today growing up with video games. I doubt D&D will ever be "cool" in the mainstream sense, but at least it's doesn't evoke derision like it did when I played it.
I should have been more clear. By guidance, I mean in the form of dragon and/or dungeon magazine, which we all got monthly and religiously read. There were many articles on "how to properly dungeon master" that gave us all little ideas over time. But then, maybe they are reading Dragon+ and maybe it does have info. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2017 : 00:08:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And what I REALLY want is for them to develop material in the 'Lost Century' (it had a canonical name - 'years of mourning', or some-such), with 5e rules. Now that would be SWEET. I still don't understand why nearly no-one but me can see the potential in that: You get to cherry-pick what you want from EVERY edition, without contradicting anything.
A canonical century without canon, except for a truly magnificent foundation of 'what has gone before'. - it doesn't really get better than that to create in.
This is the dream. If they filled in the century gap, I'd be a very happy man. There's so much left unsaid and unexplained in the history - even despite a focus on the Sword Coast we don't even know who the Open Lords of Waterdeep were between Piergeiron and Dagult.
PS I think the term was "Wailing Years", mostly applying for the 10 years following the eruption of the Spellplague. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 21:13:48
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quote:
10 years from now you will not see a D&D book anywhere but on the internet. The settings themselves, which have decades of lore and development behind every one of them, will be relics hung on to at small forums that dwindle away each successive year. It's terribly sad to me, I grew up "living" in worlds like Athas, Krynn, Barovia, etc. Now they are all but extinct, and all that magnificent work will be lost on the next generation.
At first I was about to reply that it's partly because of the decline of the print industry, but this is hogwash, seeing that there are tons of successful novels still being printed each year, and also that Paizo's own Pathfinder Tales novel lines is doing great.
No.
It's 100% because of Hasbro's mismanagement of the D&D and FR license that you're no longer seeing FR novels in the stores. They had a gold mine, and they shat on it on the pretext that 'kids' market is where it's at', obviously unaware that most kids have never held a god damned book in their hands because of this ****ing Orwellian tablet/iPhone internet/app generation. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7975 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2017 : 05:02:10
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Brand, franchise, Intellectual Property, Trademark, Copyright. Hasbro is quite expert at such things, they'll vomit up dead brands to make money in new ways and new formats every few decades. Hate that nonsense, but it's whatcha get when your creativity is owned by your employer. People often sympathize with Ed's laments about the published Realms not being his vision of the Realms - but I don't because it's evident to me that he makes a living selling what his boss wants to sell. And I don't blame him for making a living, many of us have done far less worthy things to pay our bills.
We need a nice "opensource" copylefted form of D&D and the Realms, lol. Online, interactive, wiki, pdf, the works. One may not always agree with everything the other fans contribute, but one can be selective and it's hard to do much worse than WotC has already done. Existing Wizbro OGL/d20 licenses don't cut it, existing Realms authors/designers also don't cut it (not because they lack talent, but because they lack freedom, they are shackled by NDAs and CNCs and other such contractual limits, too much liability and conflict of interest and ethical/professional slander if they actively work outside the rules). |
[/Ayrik] |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2017 : 00:43:35
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Well, within 10 years we will get 6E and the Realms will have yet another ''apocalypse'' to explain things and make everything ''cool 6E''. They will do cool stuff like put Waterdeep under water and put Shadowdale on the plane of shadow. 20 years, well maybe a 7E or maybe an ''edition so cool and hip that it does not have a number''. The Realms might not make it that far, as they might come out with a new world for the new gamers.
Though, over all, it will only get worse....tough eventually be Forgotten...literately. |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2017 : 09:24:51
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I should have been more clear. By guidance, I mean in the form of dragon and/or dungeon magazine, which we all got monthly and religiously read. There were many articles on "how to properly dungeon master" that gave us all little ideas over time. But then, maybe they are reading Dragon+ and maybe it does have info.
These days that guidance doesn't come from magazines. It comes from Youtube channels, it comes from Blogs, and it comes from the web offerings of Dragon Magazine. Mostly it comes from Youtubers.
Today's tabletop gamers would typically rather get their gaming articles in video form.
As for character building? Automated character builders that save time are nice. PDFs are more useful than hardcopy books for game mechanics, both at the table, and when building characters. Web-sources are better than PDFs. Automated search capabilities are key. Searching several sources to find what you want is a pain in the ass.
Personally, my gaming experience often doesn't involve actual character sheets, and instead involves 8 laptops at a large table, with each player having their character sheet open in google docs, and the core rules (and sometimes supplemental rules) open on their laptop for rules reference.
The only problem is it can be a pain to try to reach over everything to get to the grid & minis in the middle. In the future I may get a fancy low-rise gaming table to make reaching over it to get to the minis easier.
And yes, Wizards is very out of touch when it comes to tech. They somehow thought if they pulled their digital products they'd avoid piracy? There's as much pirated 5e PDFs floating now as there ever been. Piracy cannot be avoided for books or PDFs. What you want is an incentive to pay for the game. Like all-digital releases through a windows/android/ios app with fancy features you just can't get from a book.
But WotC isn't going to do that.
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Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2017 : 12:42:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I should have been more clear. By guidance, I mean in the form of dragon and/or dungeon magazine, which we all got monthly and religiously read. There were many articles on "how to properly dungeon master" that gave us all little ideas over time. But then, maybe they are reading Dragon+ and maybe it does have info.
These days that guidance doesn't come from magazines. It comes from Youtube channels, it comes from Blogs, and it comes from the web offerings of Dragon Magazine. Mostly it comes from Youtubers.
Today's tabletop gamers would typically rather get their gaming articles in video form.
As for character building? Automated character builders that save time are nice. PDFs are more useful than hardcopy books for game mechanics, both at the table, and when building characters. Web-sources are better than PDFs. Automated search capabilities are key. Searching several sources to find what you want is a pain in the ass.
Personally, my gaming experience often doesn't involve actual character sheets, and instead involves 8 laptops at a large table, with each player having their character sheet open in google docs, and the core rules (and sometimes supplemental rules) open on their laptop for rules reference.
The only problem is it can be a pain to try to reach over everything to get to the grid & minis in the middle. In the future I may get a fancy low-rise gaming table to make reaching over it to get to the minis easier.
And yes, Wizards is very out of touch when it comes to tech. They somehow thought if they pulled their digital products they'd avoid piracy? There's as much pirated 5e PDFs floating now as there ever been. Piracy cannot be avoided for books or PDFs. What you want is an incentive to pay for the game. Like all-digital releases through a windows/android/ios app with fancy features you just can't get from a book.
But WotC isn't going to do that.
Very good points, and I couldn't agree more on PDF's. Having searchable text is a godsend. The one thing they had going for them in my view back in 3e was the third party software put out by codemonkey, etools (I know some favored the freeware program that codemonkey eventually took over, but I felt etools was better built once codemonkey took it over). It was expensive, but worth it. Of course, there was piracy happening there as well, but enough of us were willing to foot the bill to keep them going. Then WotC had the stupid idea in 4e that they'd somehow get people to subscribe to them monthly in order to have access to a character generator and a virtual tabletop, and unfortunately for a lot of people keeping their credit card on file isn't something they really wanted with WotC (at least I didn't). You see the same thing happening with Herolabs for pathfinder now, but honestly I don't think they're keeping up with the books flowing out (and since I quit buying pathfinder stuff about 3 years ago... the latest stuff is just BAD... I have no idea where they stand).
Anyway, the current edition is so easy for character sheet creation that they really should make a generator and put it out for free. I've seen some third party ones. Granted, I can do mine by hand with my eyes closed, but I've seen it confuse the newbies (especially things like armor where your max dex comes into play). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2017 : 15:49:49
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I think the larger issue with 4E's online setup was the fact they never had everything that was initially promised, and it was an all-or-nothing approach. You couldn't pay a lesser amount and just get the "magazines" and nothing else; you had to pay the full price to get the "magazines" and the online rules and their character thing and whatever else they had in there. For those of us who didn't embrace the 4E rules, paying for unwanted access to them was not a palatable option (and the digital "magazines" have been very underwhelming, as well).
It also didn't help that the kneejerk reaction to the piracy of 4E material was to pull all pdfs from everywhere, regardless of edition. Not only did they cut off a revenue stream by nixing pdfs of prior editions, they also pissed off people that had paid for those pdfs, with the promise that they'd be forever available.
And even though they've started selling pdfs from prior editions again, access to the previously purchased ones has not been restored. It's not a huge deal for me; I've got multiple copies of those pdfs scattered all over the place (external hard drives, thumb drives, old hard drives no longer in use, some on one of my tablets, etc). But the principle of it still irritates the bejeebers out of me. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Jan 2017 15:51:07 |
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Where do you see the realms in 10 years? 20?
