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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  00:55:05  Show Profile  Visit Prince Forge of Avalon's Homepage Send Prince Forge of Avalon a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm starting this thread in the hopes that Aluando will sticky this at the top, and allow us to ask questions to our FR designers such as: Steven Schend, George Krashos, Eric Boyd, etc.
As Ed has mentioned many times, the FR's are a shared world and these fine people have helped to build the most comprehensive gaming world out there.
So to all the FR game designers let me first say Thank you for your time and effort in building this wonderful world.
And let the questions begin......................

PFoA/Joe

Edited by - Alaundo on 30 Mar 2004 09:02:50

Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  00:59:51  Show Profile  Visit Prince Forge of Avalon's Homepage Send Prince Forge of Avalon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well since I have tons of questions, I'll go first.

I'm currently working my campaign into the High Forest and am looking to increase my knowledge of it with ANY lore beyond the currently published FR lore, so any designers out there: Are there any facts or secrets out there that you can pass on to me about the High Forest or places within it etc?

Thank you much!

PFoA
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  01:16:29  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Prince Forge of Avalon

Well since I have tons of questions, I'll go first.

I'm currently working my campaign into the High Forest and am looking to increase my knowledge of it with ANY lore beyond the currently published FR lore, so any designers out there: Are there any facts or secrets out there that you can pass on to me about the High Forest or places within it etc?



This question's a little broad and thus nothing's leaping to mind (other than to unleash a swarm of tiny flying fey'ri generating a magical yellow tape on which is elvish decrying "Nothing to see here. Move along." all about parts of the northern woods).

Got any more specific questions? After all, we've been dodging in and out of the High Forest for 15 years and I for one can't remember 1/3 of the ideas I dropped in there.

Cormanthyr was the bulk of the hints and leftover ideas that I put therein (and followed up with Hellgate Keep).

If you had questions directly on stuff we've said (or left unsaid), that'd help move this forum along. After all, we're not all like Ed, whose brain unleashes a torrent of lore at the least prodding. I can do that, but only if I've been working on something and the ideas are fresh. As it's been a while since I did work on the Realms, it'll take a bit of oil to get the tin man's brain wheels working again....

Steven
Who, like Ed, may not know exactly what's in WotC's plans so he had to tread lightly lest he run rough-shod over others' ideas

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  02:49:01  Show Profile  Visit Prince Forge of Avalon's Homepage Send Prince Forge of Avalon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry for bieng so general in scope, there are so many places and intresting ideas in the High Forest, I'll have to start by narrowing it down so let me start with the greatest "secert" of the HF that I can think off: "Myth Adofhaer" where is it now? what is its current state, what might the conditions of its return might be?
Just to start us off.....

PS thanks STEVEN!!!

PFoA
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5614 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  04:47:29  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Adofhaer" = "Outofhere" Hehehe. Did you know Steven that this little gem slipped past me for about two years before I got the joke?!?

As for the High Forest, in some of the Fallen Kingdom work we did we had one of the elven kings of Phalorm, the Realm of Three Crowns, chase an orc horde into the southern reaches and disappear. To this day I wonder what happened to King Ellatharion and his warriors ....

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5609 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  08:56:45  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met

Indeed, this scroll is certainly worthy within the library. A collective scroll to enable questions to be asked of all designers of Forgotten Realms products rather than individual scrolls (as in the Novels section) as many designers often worked together.

I was awaiting response from Eric L Boyd regarding this matter but alas have yet to hear (even though he has arrived at Candlekeep). Therefore, without further delay, on with the show....

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  18:35:21  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Prince Forge of Avalon

Sorry for bieng so general in scope, there are so many places and intresting ideas in the High Forest, I'll have to start by narrowing it down so let me start with the greatest "secert" of the HF that I can think off: "Myth Adofhaer" where is it now? what is its current state, what might the conditions of its return might be?
Just to start us off.....

PS thanks STEVEN!!!

PFoA



And here I thought the greatest secret of the High Forest was the number of trees in it....

Myth Adofhaer...sheesh. I had to go back and reread what I wrote.... Forgot quite a bit about Siluvanede and its mythal city....

Actually, it's taking me more than an hour to even scare up references and files to this site and/or details on Siluvanede. I'll have to look at reorganizing files so I can find things easier.

Off the top of my head, it's the last Siluvanedden city, its mythal sets it into a side-dimension/pocket dimension (but not that of Shade), and it will be chock full of gold elves exclusively. Now, are they those who didn't agree with the corrupt leadership, leaving with lots of lore in hopes for the future? Are they those who left after "the Sixth Crown War" in hopes of revenge later vs. Sharrven? What exactly did they do to the mythal that blipped them out of phase with the Realms and why haven't they been found? I always considered it a time-shift, and they've sent themselves along to the future but won't rematerialize until it's safe. Conditions for its return really depend on who pulled the city out of reality, dunnit?

Sorry I can't be more direct; I don't know what or if WotC has any plans with this or what, but I can barely remember what I wrote now, let alone what I'd planned if the plot were to play out fully. Mea culpa....

Hope what little I do remember is of some use....

Steven




For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  18:55:38  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

"Adofhaer" = "Outofhere" Hehehe. Did you know Steven that this little gem slipped past me for about two years before I got the joke?!?


Slipped past me too, pal, as it's totally an unintentional pun.

Honestly, using my old notes on elvish, "ado" is peace/peaceful and "faer" is magic; thus Myth Adofaer (no h in there I was aware of, unless my notes are wrong) is "the place of peaceful magics."

Alternately, there could have been some elven disinformation campaigns going on all across the centuries...

What if the city's name was actually Myth Adofhaor? "Fhaor" is the concept of magical death/change/alteration (but not of an evil nature), so the city could have been some crucible of change seen as a good thing by the Siluvanedden.

Innit great how one or two letters can totally change one's perceptions of an idea? Just another direction y'all can take this in your campaigns, if you so choose....

quote:
As for the High Forest, in some of the Fallen Kingdom work we did we had one of the elven kings of Phalorm, the Realm of Three Crowns, chase an orc horde into the southern reaches and disappear. To this day I wonder what happened to King Ellatharion and his warriors ....


Well, if Myth Adofaer/Adofhaor truly time-shifted with its mythal, that's one possible outcome, in having the orc horde invade the city and have them pull themselves out of time again, not feeling too safe.

Another option, which I don't think is used often enough, is this: Gates permeate the High Forest (as well as all of Faerun); who say's they all transport people across space? What if they simply tunnel short-cuts through time, throwing people days or weeks or centuries ahead rather than miles? I love the idea of an orc horde and Ellarthion's Crusade rumbling out of the High Forest next Mirtul...

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2004 :  06:50:21  Show Profile  Visit Prince Forge of Avalon's Homepage Send Prince Forge of Avalon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steven & George, THANK YOU, every little bit of info is appreciated!!!! And those ideas are great!

OK, well if I'm lucky enough to keep you you guys thinking, my next question would be: The Star Mounts, what exactly is at the top with all those crystals and "strange" lights?

The reason I ask is because my campaign in the future will involve the HF ALOT and I see the place as one of the great mysteries of the Realms, in and of itself! With a TON of oppurtunities for some truly EPIC play.

PFoA/Joe

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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2004 :  17:45:29  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Prince Forge of Avalon

Steven & George, THANK YOU, every little bit of info is appreciated!!!! And those ideas are great!

OK, well if I'm lucky enough to keep you you guys thinking, my next question would be: The Star Mounts, what exactly is at the top with all those crystals and "strange" lights?

The reason I ask is because my campaign in the future will involve the HF ALOT and I see the place as one of the great mysteries of the Realms, in and of itself! With a TON of oppurtunities for some truly EPIC play.



Hmmm... Star Mounts, huh?

Last I recall, I'd attempted to exterminate the aaracockra and winged elves up there with a hungry green dragon, but successive lore seems to have saved them.

Don't recall ever having done that much with it, and my gut reaction to reading about lights atop a mountain said to go back and watch CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND. And hey, if you want to make it a beacon and landing port for spelljammers, that's entirely your call.

Lemme go grab a source and reread, then unleash ideas as they come...Aha--my original draft of the High FOrest material I wrote for THE NORTH ought to be a decent start....


Abandoned mines within the Star Mounts...did we ever say which civilization or clan used these?

Elaacrimalicros, my "eater of bird people," is the eldest of three green dragons living in the High Forest and she lairs high up in the Star Mounts; is she the mom of the others or the mate or is she sleeping away unawares of them at all? And while she does sleep for decades at a time, she can be awakened if lots of activity happens around her caves...hint, hint, and warning to adventurers poking about or climbing mountains....

There's still that schism among the centaurs of the HF, though I doubt they'll have much to do with the mountain....though wasn't there a centaur type of dwarf or gnome crossed with mountain goats back in 1E or something? Just a stray idea....

Of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that the elves have lived in the HF for ages, and it'd be within reason to find remnants or hints of Aryvandaar or Siluvanede or Eaerlann all around and within the Star Mounts...

The Endless Caverns along the Unicorn Run link up with caves within the Star Mounts and the Underdark, so much can be made of this possibility...and don't forget it's the current lair of Grimnoshtrando the Riddling Dragon (from ELFSONG, if memory serves). It's also been about 15 years since anyone heard from Skimmerhorn of Secomber, the ranger who set out to eradicate encamped drow and illithid slavers within these caves....

<<Located in the heart of the High Forest, this steep-sloped cluster of mountains ascends higher than even the tallest peaks in the Spine of the World. It's possible to see the snow-capped mountain tops and the slopes which sparkle like cut diamonds from as far away as the Stone Bridge or the mountains north of Loudwater.>>

Hmmm...such a small collection of mountains yet they dominate the landscape. (For those of us in the Pacific Northwest, think of 3 Mount Rainiers...). Makes you wonder if the elves of Aryvandaar didn't use High Magic or something to push them up higher than they might normally? After all, if these were normal, you'd expect to see more foothills and a range to account for their presence, wouldn't you?

There could also be some hints and ideas in their names--Y'tellarien (the Far Star), called Far Peak, Y'landrothiel (Traveler's Star), called Mount Journey, and N'landroshien (Darkness in Light), called Shadowpeak.

Can't find my print or PDF copy of THE NORTH right now, so I'll just quote the last paragraph in the material I have at hand for one last idea/hint/adventure possibility...

<< Huge crystals dot the surface of the mountains, many as large as small houses. There are several uncharted ruins in the mountains with walls made of fractured crystal shards. When moonlight strikes the crystals, it creates webworks of reflected light across the surface of the mountain. On a small internal peak at the heart of the Star Mounts, during the full moon, the crystals cover this peak with patterns of light and this is rumored to either generate a gate to another plane or the light has the ability to resurrect anyone laid within the cairn of standing stones at its top.>>

What those crystals are made of is unknown, though I'd bet dollars to donuts that they'd be great at holding magic. Unfortunately, as we've not heard of major forays (ala a Gold Rush style flood) toward mining those crystals and they've survived there for millennia, one must assume that some power or situation keeps them well protected.

Steven



For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2004 :  02:46:17  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage  Send Shadowlord an AOL message Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I may not be the Prince Forge of Avalon, but even I thank you for the excellent input! I especially like the idea about the Star Mounts being a landing zone for spelljammers. Even though I generally dislike them, your idea sparked the little shred of curiosity I had left for Realmspace...

-Shadowlord

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  06:10:01  Show Profile  Visit Prince Forge of Avalon's Homepage Send Prince Forge of Avalon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WOW Steven that gave me some SWEET ideas to help launch my Epic campaign, and since you were so kind to throw some ideas my way, I wonder if you would be kind enough to see if my ideas fit with most of the REALMS lore you wrote, so here goes!

My idea for the High Forest is that within its shadows many secrets still hide, some more ancient that most people can imagine.

My plan is to slowly reveal that the High Forest is mainly a "living prison" for the essence of one of the creator races( the ancient reptile race) evil gods, and the "good forces" of the High Forest
(the GF Tree, Araumycos,The Living Crys( my name for the crystal sentience atop the Star Mounts), and the Pool of Life( the pool of Memory?)are all engaged in keeping the sentience of those evil gods from escaping and has done so since the beginning days of life on Toril.
I'm currently working on linking the different spots within the HF to specfic goals for the characters to accomplish. The GF Tree game will be to destroy the gates in the Hall of Mists and destroy the Demon fire ants that are eating away at the GF Tree( Anything else you can say about the Hall of Mists and what it might contain?)

I want to work in the Star Mounts, the Pool of Life(memory),Araumycos and some other locations in the HF, like the catacombs underneath the Mistmasters citadel, mabye the underdark of Hellgate Keep also the Dead Dwarf hall in the Star Mounts where the skeletons are still hard at work?!

So what do you think, any extra info or ideas?

AND most of all THANKS for your time!!!!!

PFoA/Joe
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5614 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  02:49:06  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric Boyd has provided a huge amount of material on Grandfather Tree and the Hall of Mists in his Mintiper's Chapbook stuff on the WotC FR Website. Check them out.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  06:25:34  Show Profile  Visit Prince Forge of Avalon's Homepage Send Prince Forge of Avalon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George,
Got em, Love em! Wish there was a WHOLE bunch more!!!
I eat that stuff UP, Like Kirby!!!!!!

Anything else you got I'll eat that up too, THANKS

PFoA
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5614 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  06:45:59  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, you might want to look here:

http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/history.html

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  07:14:56  Show Profile  Visit Prince Forge of Avalon's Homepage Send Prince Forge of Avalon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
THANK YOU, SIR GEORGE, very kind of you.

I Never tire of this info, very cool.

How about that Eric went to school for EE too, except I ended up in Banking. Gee If I would have known I would have tried to make sure he got a good deal on his house.

By the way George, if you dont mind me asking how did you end up doing FR designing?
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  17:14:00  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Prince Forge of Avalon

WOW Steven that gave me some SWEET ideas to help launch my Epic campaign, and since you were so kind to throw some ideas my way, I wonder if you would be kind enough to see if my ideas fit with most of the REALMS lore you wrote, so here goes!

My idea for the High Forest is that within its shadows many secrets still hide, some more ancient that most people can imagine.

My plan is to slowly reveal that the High Forest is mainly a "living prison" for the essence of one of the creator races( the ancient reptile race) evil gods, and the "good forces" of the High Forest
(the GF Tree, Araumycos,The Living Crys( my name for the crystal sentience atop the Star Mounts), and the Pool of Life( the pool of Memory?)are all engaged in keeping the sentience of those evil gods from escaping and has done so since the beginning days of life on Toril.


All very interesting and it should work quite well.

One caution, though: Be sure when you're setting up your prison idea that you take into account all the civilizations that have lived over/under this area over the millennia. After all, neither Siluvanede or Aryvandaar or Sharrven or Netheril would have missed the existence of some ancient race/sentience/god therein, so find out when this came to be or reinterpret history so it works for you. In other words, perhaps it's the influence of this Elder Race that keeps corrupting people that live too close to it (ala Moander influencing things from beneath Voonlar or wherever he was buried).

Have fun in making the Realms your own.

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5614 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  17:33:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I wouldn't label myself as a "FR designer", certainly not when sharing a thread with Steven Schend!:)

I was fortunate to join the FR loop when Eric Boyd e-mailed me out of the blue and asked if I wanted to help out in a project to detail the Fallen Kingdom, one of the weightier FR conundrums at the time. The reason I was asked was that I had been a regular poster on the FR List and seemingly "knew my stuff".

Since then, I have been fortunate enough to be asked to research and look over a bunch of FR products including 'Sea of Fallen Stars', 'Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark', the 3E FR Campaign Setting book, 'Cloak & Dagger', and a few others.

It's always great fun to see a new FR product take shape although it does take away some of the "wow" factor when you know what's in it! Aside from looking over official products from time to time, I do my own FR work on areas or aspects of the Realms that interest me. Currently my main areas of interest are Cormyr, the North and Impiltur/UE. I also make lots of lists of obscure realmslore for easy reference. I have managed to get one FR article published in Dragon (way back in #277) and been rejected by that august publication on about 4 other occasions, so a great FR designer I am not!

But heck, the Realms have always been a labour of love and it's great to be able to share creative ideas with like-minded people and every once in a while send stuff through to Ed to surprise him re his 'baby'.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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fourthmensch
Seeker

USA
32 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  01:14:30  Show Profile  Visit fourthmensch's Homepage  Send fourthmensch an AOL message Send fourthmensch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I have been fortunate enough to be asked to research and look over a bunch of FR products including 'Sea of Fallen Stars', 'Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark', the 3E FR Campaign Setting book, 'Cloak & Dagger', and a few others.


Here's one that's been bugging me for years... what's up with the Manshoon taking refuge with the Simbul? I loved that idea when I first saw it in Cloak and Dagger, but when trying to figure out why the Simbul would decide to help him out or what Manshoon is up to, my creativity fails me.

Is there anything that you can pass along regarding this weird and fascinating development?

I want you to go home and ponder the meaning of the word subversive.

Gully Foyle is my name
And Terra is my nation
Deep space is my dwelling place
The stars my destination.
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BobROE
Learned Scribe

Canada
106 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  05:40:03  Show Profile  Visit BobROE's Homepage Send BobROE a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do you know how much a member of the waterdeep watch gets paid? I've looked through City of Splendors and can't find anything.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32452 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  05:41:02  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I should love to see what Sage Schend has to say about the Manshoon clones... Sure, there's officially only three "Manshoons" still around, but since there were ways around the compulsion to kill each other, I'm sure there's some former Manshoons out there. I should love to know some of the ideas Sage Schend had...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Sarta
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  09:00:55  Show Profile Send Sarta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I should love to see what Sage Schend has to say about the Manshoon clones... Sure, there's officially only three "Manshoons" still around, but since there were ways around the compulsion to kill each other, I'm sure there's some former Manshoons out there. I should love to know some of the ideas Sage Schend had...



He did comment on Manshoon's clones a bit in this thread: http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=145

I think the official party line is take the story-line and run with it however fits best in your game, but perhaps we can get even more out of him here.

Sarta
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  17:57:34  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fourthmensch
Here's one that's been bugging me for years... what's up with the Manshoon taking refuge with the Simbul? I loved that idea when I first saw it in Cloak and Dagger, but when trying to figure out why the Simbul would decide to help him out or what Manshoon is up to, my creativity fails me.

Is there anything that you can pass along regarding this weird and fascinating development?


Well, I'm not George (to whom the question was directed), but here's my two coppers on the matter...

All of the Chosen have a mandate from Mystra to see magic expand and grow and live, regardless of the morality or responsibility behind it. Thus, even Manshoon deserves to live, for he creates many new magics, and (more importantly) many people create magics in response to his existence and his threats.

Why would Alassra take him under her protection? Can't say for certain, as I've never been able to wrap my brain around the character. Still, from a general Chosen perspective...

A) Better she give him refuge than the Red Wizards, especially if he's bartering major magical items for his safety...

B) Even the Simbul likes to learn new magics, and he probably has a few that she's not seen before...

C) It could be an untruth spread by the Simbul's agents to buy her some detente with the Red Wizards, who might be loathe to attack her and hers if they think a very desperate Manshoon also lairs therein...

D) Perhaps the Simbul had an inkling or hint about the Shadow Weave earlier than noted in official lore, and she wanted to suss out what Manshoon knew of darker things for Mystra's and the Chosens' edification...

E) Simplest reason of all (and one definitely not noted officially all that often), her mother asked her to do so. The Seven Sisters are special in that they're not just Chosen (who also get bossed around every now and again by Mystra working on some long term god-level plans), but they're all daughters of the goddess Mystra and thus have eeven closer ties. Also, it could be Mystra behind Suggestion D above as well...

Steven
Who just realized that Khelben might be grumpy all the time because his mother-in-law is the goddess he's served for 908 years

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  18:04:20  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BobROE

Do you know how much a member of the waterdeep watch gets paid? I've looked through City of Splendors and can't find anything.



Truly, I've no idea, or I'd have put it into CoS 12 years ago.

Best guess, it's a living and decent wage, slightly above the standard grade given the dangers of the job. One of the probable real benefits might be that your family continues to get a stipend if you lose your life while on the job.

Best guesstimate? Look at what cops make in our world and break it down in relative terms. While I'm loathe to suggest an exact number, I'd say you could make the same in the Watch that you could as a shopkeeper but more than a street vendor. (And less scrupulous members of society might try to join the Watch in hopes of pocketing some coins while apprehending suspects, but Captain Rulathon watches closely, and his INternal Affairs division is much harsher than those on our world....)

Clear as mud? Sorry I can't be more exact, but I'm not totally up on the coin standards right now and don't want to hazard a totally uneducated guess. Thus, general ranges are the best I can give you.

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1633 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  18:13:04  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I should love to see what Sage Schend has to say about the Manshoon clones... Sure, there's officially only three "Manshoons" still around, but since there were ways around the compulsion to kill each other, I'm sure there's some former Manshoons out there. I should love to know some of the ideas Sage Schend had...



Well, there's the ideas from that other link posted (thanks, Sarta).

Other ideas were never solidly set. We'd hoped to set Manshoon up as a lurking menace of opportunity and a major wandering threat. Before the M-Wars, he was always up in Zhentil Keep or the Citadel of the Raven plotting away. After the dust-up, he's forced to stay constantly on the run, on his guard, and using up all his carefully hidden away contingency plans in hopes of staying alive another day.

In effect, we turned him from being a wizardly despot and leader into a terrorist isolated and estranged from the terrorist group(s) he founded.

As always, you can do what you will of it, but officially, having the 3 Amigos where they're at works okay. If you need more, I noted other options previously (undead forms, ghosts, possession/mind swapping, etc.)

Remember that he's only a ravening madman out to blindly kill when he's within range of another Manshoon clone, so as long as they stay discrete distance away (and outside of the official eyes), there could be more still (if you so choose):

up in the Tears of Selune/on the Rock of Bral;

perhaps hiding among the settlers of the Borderlands in Maztica;

maybe he's trading magics with the mysterious spellcasters of Kozakura or Shou Lung;

calling in favors with genies could have taken a Manshoon away to the south and al-Qadim;

get the idea?

Have fun, and remember that ALL the disenfranchised Manshoons, while they may want other things, would definitely do anything (aside from revealing themselves gratuitiously and opening themselves to risk) to foul up any plans of Fzoul.....

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2004 :  18:32:07  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Search the REALMS-L archives for more of Steven's comments on the Manshoon clones.
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