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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Aug 2016 : 12:56:48
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I find it ironic that Eberron get labeled the streampunk, when to my knowledge it doesn't use steam at all, nor gun powder I believe, but the Forgotten Realms on the other hand has several civilizations that used gun powder and stream.
Lantan and Mulhorand were noted as having both used steam and technology, although Mulhorand backed away from it thanks to a Pharoh who feared the change it would bring.
And gun powder was common if illegal in much of the realms.
Some clockwork technology as well.
Eberron on the other hand is far more advanced technology and infustructure wise, using an elemental magic and psionic based technology, they have no need for steam, they're far more advanced then that.
I'd say Eberron tech is closer to alt modern magic based technology.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2016 : 13:03:03
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"What I'd think would be more likely is that House Cannith designed a number of magic weapons that were functionally similar to guns, but without the need for gunpowder. The 3.5 Spelljammer conversion had some cool concepts, such as a weapon that fired a stream of alchemist's fire (gun/flamethrower). If you're going to use magic, projectile-based weapons seem like a disadvantage--you might as well utilize something like a triggered lightning bolt, or even just some magic missile item that non-spellcasters were trained to use."
That was from Kieth Baker. |
Edited by - Gyor on 27 Aug 2016 13:06:46 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2016 : 13:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
I find it ironic that Eberron get labeled the streampunk, when to my knowledge it doesn't use steam at all, nor gun powder I believe
It just says something about those who do the labeling. "It got airships. Hurr, steampunk." |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2016 : 16:00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
I find it ironic that Eberron get labeled the streampunk, when to my knowledge it doesn't use steam at all, nor gun powder I believe
It just says something about those who do the labeling. "It got airships. Hurr, steampunk."
Hahahaha,good point.
If one uses that defination,one would have to add Halruaa to the list of steam punkish nations. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2016 : 16:09:43
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| Eberron is more magi-tech than anything. If that's even a genre of setting. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2016 : 19:45:19
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Magitech, yeah that's the term for it.
I'd say its a subsetting, simular to Sci Fantasy, but leaning much or heavily towards the fantasy, were as Sci Fantasy leans more heavily towards the Science side. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2016 : 04:28:55
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
I find it ironic that Eberron get labeled the streampunk, when to my knowledge it doesn't use steam at all, nor gun powder I believe
It just says something about those who do the labeling. "It got airships. Hurr, steampunk."
To be fair, airships are practically a defining feature of steampunk. And so is older technology that mimics modern technology. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2016 : 09:00:55
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steam punk would be use of magic and steam tech. like a umm well I forgot its name, have to lookit up and get back to you.
eberron is magetech, which means it uses magical energy to power its tech, ie: its lightning rail.
Shadowrun is Cyberpunk
FR/GH/DS/DL are high fantasy no heavy tech, mostly magic. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2016 : 15:27:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
steam punk would be use of magic and steam tech. like a umm well I forgot its name, have to lookit up and get back to you.
Are you thinking of the Iron Kingdoms, the setting for the Warmachine and Hordes games?
Interestingly, it's not described by Privateer Press as being steampunk -- they generally call it "full metal fantasy." |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Aug 2016 15:27:53 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2016 : 21:17:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
steam punk would be use of magic and steam tech. like a umm well I forgot its name, have to lookit up and get back to you.
eberron is magetech, which means it uses magical energy to power its tech, ie: its lightning rail.
Shadowrun is Cyberpunk
FR/GH/DS/DL are high fantasy no heavy tech, mostly magic.
Mulhorand has used Steam technology using stones of ever heating to create the steam which they used to pump water into the desert, boost crop production, but Horus-Ra's incarnation at the time stopped future projects.
There are a subset of Thoth Priests called technologists, that in previous editions pushed for a more steam punk technology and its use.
Lantan also uses steam tech I think.
So FR is at least a light stream punk setting, as the technology exists, and there are those who know it. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2016 : 08:34:38
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and what was put in as mulhorand was put in by the franchise owners at the time and was not what Ed Greenwood had in mind with the place at the time...
Lantan, well that one is debatable... but even the smokepowder requires the weave to function.
but if you read what I wrote , I said no heavy tech...
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2016 : 12:09:59
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I think Thay was what Ed had in mind originally for Mulhorand. I wonder who actually designed Mulhorand and Unther and Imaskar? Was it Jeff Grubbs?
Mulhorand and Unther were popular enough that they had to bring them back after nuking them in 4e.
I did not know that smoke powder required the weave. It still function basically like gun powder. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2016 : 23:41:04
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most don't realize that about the smokepowder, and assume its gunpowder. its also supposed to be illegal in Cormyr too.
and in iwd and iwd2 had the gnome and his airship. Steam tech, a blimp and nothing more.
didn't know about Thoth all I did know is that Oghma is not overly happy with Gond spreading technology. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2016 : 00:29:38
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looking through the FRwiki. could not find anything about mulhorand having steam tech.
but it did say Shaou long had tech to rival LAntan. That also said, kara-tur was shoe-horned into the realms as was al-qaddin(ms)( so where the bloodstone lands iirc) |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2016 : 10:37:40
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Eberron's not steampunk, I don't recall it often getting that label. "Magitech" is more appropriate. But both steampunk and magitech use their gimmick to power technology-like applications, and Eberron uses common steampunk motifs: trains, flying machines, etc., and a good deal of its dress sense and story ideas (1800s-style exploration of lost continents, say).
The Forgotten Realms had both steampunk, clockwork, and magitech elements in the past, but these were downplayed in 3rd edition. For example, Lantan had its Gond-worshiping humans, but these mysteriously became tinker gnomes in 3e, which I guess was more acceptable for gadgetry. Ironically, this was before Eberron moved in to the claim magitech, and Eberron fans used the lack of magitech as a hammer to beat on the Forgotten Realms. 
Magitech has a long history in the Realms. Magical lighting in the bigger cities, for example. In refrigeration, Netheril had iceboxes and a floating city that teleported and froze fish:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ice_box
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lathery
But this continues in modern times:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Fish_House
It's not yet on the wiki, but Old Empires has the bit about magic-fuelled steam-engined pumps and mills in Mulhorand, which the 3e FRCS simply called pumps. This matches how the first steam engines were actually developed in Alexandria during the Roman empire in our world, almost 2000 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2016 : 01:38:11
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| ok now I remember that.( but then I don't like unther or mulhorand... so, might be why I don't remember it. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2016 : 16:07:52
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Eberron also has long had the warforged as a player race "native" to that world. Warforged seem very steam-punky.
But in the end, any DM can make the FR just as steamy as Eberron. Just add in some warforged, airships, and gunpowder in your FR campaign…. and there you go. And don't forgot the clockwork dragons. You gotta have those! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2016 : 17:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Eberron also has long had the warforged as a player race "native" to that world. Warforged seem very steam-punky.
I'm a huge fan of warforged, and I like steampunk stuff... And I don't think of the warforged as being steampunk. They are magically animated, and do not have clockwork or steam elements. If you have steam or clockwork, you can stretch the steampunk definition, but not having either rules it out.
In my opinion, of course. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2016 : 07:24:46
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Well, even if they are animated (brought to life) by magic, the warforged are made of mechanical (metal, stone, etc) parts rather than bodies of flesh. So technically, they have a lot in common with Clockworks or even Golems. I guess the best word that I envision them is as "tech-magic". Or an even more unorthodox word…. "mecha-magic".
Of course, Eberron's warforged is a fairly unique idea. It's something different than the typical "steampunk" tropes from true Steampunk RPGs…. like Space 1889, Arcanum, Victoriana, Iron Kingdoms, etc. And then you also have the steampunk computer games, of which BioShock is a wonderful example. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2016 : 16:25:55
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Well, even if they are animated (brought to life) by magic, the warforged are made of mechanical (metal, stone, etc) parts rather than bodies of flesh. So technically, they have a lot in common with Clockworks or even Golems. I guess the best word that I envision them is as "tech-magic". Or an even more unorthodox word…. "mecha-magic".
Of course, Eberron's warforged is a fairly unique idea. It's something different than the typical "steampunk" tropes from true Steampunk RPGs…. like Space 1889, Arcanum, Victoriana, Iron Kingdoms, etc. And then you also have the steampunk computer games, of which BioShock is a wonderful example.
I can agree with comparing them to golems. Clockwork, not so much, not without gears and such. |
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Streampunk: FR vs. Eberron
