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mikie
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jul 2016 : 21:53:22
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Well met all! Does anyone know if there are any dwarven thieves guilds in Mirabar? If not, seeking some interesting names. And...GO!
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2016 : 22:29:18
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Mirabar has a concentrical structure build with wooden palisades and iron gates. Mirabars Council of Sparkling Stones has a crack team of thiefcatchers and an active militia of 1 in five citizens. Thief guilds are going to have a hard time.
The cess pitt of Luskan might have spilt some of its more succesful thieves guilds members over to Mirabar, so perhaps drow of Bregan D'aerthe have some agents active, while a few goblin skulks scrape by the cities outer edges fighting with members of the Dead Rats gang. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2016 : 18:57:39
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Giving some thought to this, I could see a thieves guild operating in Mirabar, but they would have to be a little more subtle and secretive, and their focus would need to be more along the lines of blackmail and business deals rather than pickpockets and bully blades.
My idea would be a guild/cult involved with Abbathor, Dwarven God of Greed. They are highly secretive and deeply entrenched within the populace. They are fronted by a gentlemen's club known as "The Gilded Stein", a members only establishment that caters to Dwarves of wealth and influence. On the surface it's an extravagant meeting place where wealthy Dwarven merchants can gather in luxury and opulence. They share a drink or a meal and discuss businesses and other matters with their peers. Most members known nothing of the guild operating in their midst. The guild spies on the club members extensively, and all matters discussed in the club are known to the guild. Few members of the club are aware of the guild, but there are those who are. These associates pay the guild well for the secrets and investment advice they receive. The guild uses information to make "informed" investments as select appropriate targets. The guild specializes in sabotaging select business ventures in order to create desperate merchants that they can blackmail or coerce into serving their needs.
The cult of Abbathor within the guild works to bring these desperate merchants into the embrace of their God, playing upon their pride and latent greed. Leadership of the guild is made up of an inner circle, which should include the ranking priest of Abbathor, a warrior type responsible for security, and a brilliant mastermind who manages the guilds investments.
Numerous members of the city government are members of the club, and a few highly placed officials are actually associates or even members of the guild, which helps them keep one step ahead of the authorities. The entire operation functions on the greed of powerful dwarven merchants. The guild keeps them wealthy, and so they keep the guild safe and out of the public eye.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2016 : 02:55:10
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What time period?
Dwarves, as a rule, don't steal from each other. Not even priests of Abbathor do so (it's forbidden in his dogma). Stealing from any other race is fair game, however. So I wouldn't have any problem seeing a guild of dwarven thieves in Mirabar and other cities aimed at relieving the wealth of their non-dwarven neighbors.
Have you seen the Lorefinder kit in the 2e Demihumans of the Realms? That's one example of a thieves' guild, though it's more of a "train them and send them into the world" guild than a "steal in this city" guild. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2016 : 04:41:43
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Not exactly a dwarven thieves guild, as such, but Ed did once briefly detail this questionable dwarven chap operating in Mirabar, back in 2007:-
quote:
Stort Melharhammer of Mirabar (NE male shield dwarf Ftr4/Rog12), a black-bearded, honey-voiced, well-groomed trader who acts as a moneylender, moneychanger, and go-between for dwarves and visiting shipcaptains, smoothing out negotiations (but often engineering false “shortages” so as to increase gem-prices for the dwarves; he always takes a cut of any increase he engineers). Stort is completely amoral, doesn’t drink, enjoys only watching elf maidens dance and hearing harp music, and lives and breathes to scheme and manipulate and “win the next deal.” When he can’t move in his underground abode for the accumulated coins and gems, he hires some trusted young dwarves (paying them handsomely) to go and buy him some more property in Neverwinter, Waterdeep, and Baldur’s Gate (in each city, he’s now a landlord of more than a dozen buildings, though he’s never seen any of them). If he didn’t spend money to influence politics in Luskan and Ruathym so as to prevent widespread warfare, he’d be even richer than he is (unless, as he judges, said warfare would have hurt trade through Mirabar, and thus cost him more).
Could be of some use. |
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2016 : 15:29:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Dwarves, as a rule, don't steal from each other. Not even priests of Abbathor do so (it's forbidden in his dogma).
I agree, and believe my proposed club/cult would work within the bounds of these restrictions. They rarely engage in direct theft, and are more focused on under the table deals and running the markets and trade in and out of Mirabar. Any direct theft they are involved in would be from non-dwarves, probably via affiliation with bandit groups operating against trade caravans into or out of the city.
Even members of the legitimate side of the club who are unaffiliated with the guild follow a firm belief that dwarves are more deserving of the cities wealth than others. This widespread belief directly supports Abbathor's faith even though most club members are unaware of the cult's existence.
So a question: On the practice of sabotaging a fellow dwarves business in order to make them desperate enough to accept help from the club, or even because they refuse to associate with the club! I'm thinking this would not be direct theft and could be justified as allowable. In fact the more I think about it, the more I believe it sounds just like the kind of justifications many religions use, following the letter of Dogma if not the spirit. What are some thoughts on this? It's not really a "Would Abbathor allow this?" as much as a "Can we get away with this?".
What other sticky justifications would they be willing to make? If they steal from a Caravan bringing goods into the city, is that considered stealing from the Dwarves would would have purchased those goods? Once a Caravan has left the city is it still the property of the seller and thus forbidden if that seller is a Dwarf? What if they are not stealing from the caravan but simply supplying and supporting the bandits in exchange for a percentage of what is stolen? |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2016 : 20:42:31
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I would take a hard line and say that if there are dwarves that are taking a loss, then that is stealing from dwarves. So sabotaging a non-dwarven caravan would be fine. Doing the same to a dwarven caravan would not. Creating false shortages that dwarves can benefit from (like the way that NPC Sage described earlier) would also be fair game.
As for spreading the word, I think success would be their best advertisement. Dwarves in the "guild" would do better than dwarves who weren't. They would flaunt their wealth (or boast secretly, depending on personality), and lead to greed and envy among other dwarves, who would then petition to join. And not coincidentally, spread the very values Abbathor embodies.
Now, this is not to say that you couldn't have some apostates of Abbathor doing exactly what you describe. But as soon as they were discovered they would be disowned, exiled, and likely attacked by all comers. The other faithful of Abbathor would be leading the charge, the better to show to the other dwarves that they are not like these traitors. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2016 : 23:37:03
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| And yet dwarves can be thieves or multi-classed thieves. They even have a number of specialty kits, subclasses, and skills which involve the use of "thief" stuff - some of these are primarily concerned with superior locksmithing and trapsmithing; some with adventuring; others with detecting, policing, and preventing thefts - but I'd bet there's still plenty of dwarven criminals, thieves, rogues, and opportunists who are only interested in enjoying the wealth and rewards earned by somebody else. Mirabar and Luskan (and pretty much any population center in the North) seem like the sorts of places which would attract such dwarven scum. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dwarven Thieves Guilds
